McLaren to return to Indy 500 or Indycar?

I don't see McLaren-Chevrolet winning the Indy500 with Alonso next year.

I don't see McLaren-Chevrolet winning the Indy500 with Alonso next year.

I don't see McLaren-Chevrolet winning the Indy500 with Alonso next year.

Crystal ball or tarot cards?  Because if it's cards, I think I'd feel better if you'd check with OvDrone first.  

Edited by red stick, 12 November 2018 - 20:24.

But they could, which is the beauty of IndyCar

Not without some sort of satellite support.  Without that depth them may not even make the bump.  All the top talent engineers are with the more established teams.  To get all your staff for a one off 500 is going to make it tough to the get most competitive names.  Andretti was able to do this (as would the other established teams) by getting people that weren't working full time and reassigning some of the regular engineering staff to support to the effort.  There are enough people they could start a standalone team for a one off but they wouldn't have the engineering depth that the other teams have.

Great news, but my concern is can they qualify for the 500. Without any tie up with any established team with experience. 

Is McLaren entering as an affiliate drive? Or is it a whole new team? If the latter is the case, then good luck qualifying for Nando.

I don't see McLaren-Chevrolet winning the Indy500 with Alonso next year.

This entry sounds like Andretti Autosport in disguise with McLaren funding and Chevrolet power. And Andretti has won 3 of the last 5 Indy 500s, for comparison Penske's last 3 500 wins have come from the last 10 years. Andretti has been the best team at IMS this decade so I am confident about McLaren's chances in the likely case of them partnering with Andretti.

Of course, McLaren will likely use Chevy power as opposed to the Honda-powered official Andretti entries. But I don't know how much of a difference that will make. The previous two years (when engine manufacturers also supplied the aero kits) Honda obviously had the advantage on superspeedways, though this year Chevy had a slight advantage at IMS. Still not a huge difference.

Though one possible reason for many teams choosing Honda over Chevy is that it's hard for a team to outperform Penske. With Penske being powered by Chevy, Honda power may offer the best chance for any team to beat Penske if Honda has an advantage over Chevy. Then again, given Andretti's record at IMS this decade, and how a Chevy-powered team like ECR has performed there, Penske may not automatically be the favorite even if Chevy had the power advantage.

Any word on the rest of the season? Fantastic news that he’s back, but after flirting so closely with running the whole shebang, it’s kind of disappointing that he’s quietly distanced himself from doing so.

I kinda hope Alonso doesn't win the 500 before he's joined the series for a full-time program. Because once he's won the 500, IndyCar may be finished business for him.

I'd like to see them run the race on the Indy road course too.

There are pros and cons in running the GP of Indy before the 500. I don't think it's that much of a preparation for a driver as you'll be switching to the oval and the oval package. But it might be useful if you have a part-time pit crew. Then again, converting a car from the RC package to the superspeedway package isn't ideal (which is why Meyer Shank purchased another chassis). Of course, I might imagine an entrant like McLaren will have two cars anyway, the other being the backup car. I just wonder if it was harmful to race on a road course with the backup car, then convert it into superspeedway trim in case the backup car is needed. I wonder what major teams like Penske or Andretti do, if their backup cars are the RC cars or if they are cars dedicated for ovals.

And of course, one option might be running the Detroit doubleheader after Indy like Servia and RLL did a year ago. If you're leasing engines for two events, Detroit is two for one as the two races count as one event. Of course, an organization like McLaren may not need to be that economical with the engine leases.

Edited by August, 12 November 2018 - 12:28.

Chevrolet engine confirmed?

Chevrolet engine confirmed?

All this nonsance about being special by winning the triple crown. Well Phil Hill won Le Mans (3 times?) and the WDC in the same year. Clark won the 500 and the WDC in the same year, plus a 3rd place at Le Mans in a privately entered car. So how is Alonso going to match them?

Just dug a bit further. There's A J Foyt who won the Indy 500 and le Mans in the same year. We could also include Mario Andretti, who along with Foyt has won both the Indy 500 and the Daytona 500, although not in the same year. But Mario does get to include a WDC and starting from pole in his first F1 GP.

Edited by JtP2, 12 November 2018 - 17:59.

Good discussion. Just one thing. Indy may or may not technically be an oval, but it doesn't race like a more typical oval. Indy is it's own beast.

Edited by AustinF1, 12 November 2018 - 18:05.

All this nonsance about being special by winning the triple crown. Well Phil Hill won Le Mans (3 times?) and the WDC in the same year. Clark won the 500 and the WDC in the same year, plus a 3rd place at Le Mans in a privately entered car. So how is Alonso going to match them?

Yeah, so run-of-the-mill that only one person ever did it, and nobody ever made a big deal of it. Right.

No doubt those other feats are massive accomplishments and should be admired in their own rights, much like what Surtees did, and surely other racing accomplishments. That doesn't diminish the Triple Crown.

All this nonsance about being special by winning the triple crown. Well Phil Hill won Le Mans (3 times?) and the WDC in the same year. Clark won the 500 and the WDC in the same year, plus a 3rd place at Le Mans in a privately entered car. So how is Alonso going to match them?

 

Just dug a bit further. There's A J Foyt who won the Indy 500 and le Mans in the same year. We could also include Mario Andretti, who along with Foyt has won both the Indy 500 and the Daytona 500, although not in the same year. But Mario does get to include a WDC and starting from pole in his first F1 GP.

Theoretically next year he could win the 500,LeMans and the WEC Title in the same year to go along with completing the Triple Crown. 

Pretty sure you still wouldn't be impressed though.

Yeah, so run-of-the-mill that only one person ever did it, and nobody ever made a big deal of it. Right.

 

No doubt those other feats are massive accomplishments and should be admired in their own rights, much like what Surtees did, and surely other racing accomplishments. That doesn't diminish the Triple Crown.

Surtees one for me is the most impressive, hard to see anyone doing that again.

It shows a mastery of several different types of racing, and is done so infrequently, even back when drivers regularly raced in different disciplines, that it's notable.  Does it make one the greatest driver of all time?  No.  But it's certainly a talking point when arguing about the merits of different drivers.  And frankly, as much as I appreciate the "official" Triple Crown, I think Foyt and Mario conquering Daytona as part-timers, in addition to their other notable victories, is at least as remarkable.

By the way, Ocon/Verstappen I is now up to 7 pages and over 300 replies, all for something that Foyt and Luyendyk would have to wonder, "What's all the fuss about?"

Edited by red stick, 12 November 2018 - 18:40.

But I bet P Hill . G Hill, J Clark,A J Foyt , J Surtees or M Andretti ever received a penalty for ignoring blue flags. Though G Hill was once black flagged for his somewhat exhuberant/ erratic driving.

But I bet P Hill . G Hill, J Clark,A J Foyt , J Surtees or M Andretti ever received a penalty for ignoring blue flags. Though G Hill was once black flagged for his somewhat exhuberant/ erratic driving.

Please. Just stop. LOL.

New team to be created;
https://motorsports....en-racing-team/

Nice. Thanks Owen!

 

 

“It is going to be people that are not currently on our Formula 1 team. It will be built up from relationships that we have. It’ll be a new McLaren entry.”

Marshall Pruett talks to Chris Medland about recent developments, and all that is still up in the air.

https://marshallprue...-chris-medland/

Edited by red stick, 12 November 2018 - 20:30.

New team to be created;
https://motorsports....en-racing-team/

I'm wondering in terms of race operations how exactly are they going to use the economies of scale the writer says they'll use.  The Brown quote doesn't say that exact thing only that they have the resources to build a full effort.  I take resources to mean money in this case as they have access to a lot of that.   They'll need new/different everything for the new race operation.  I suppose they could use some of the same back office infrastructure as Haas does with the F1 team.  Those could include sponsorship, accounting, business development.  I suppose they could use the simulators, tunnel and CFD systems if it wasn't taking away from the F1 effort.  That could all be based in Woking.  Any equipment specific to the at track operations is readily available in Indianapolis or Charlotte.  Shop space is available in Indianapolis even to the point of places that are already configured for a race team though maybe not specifically for an Indycar team.  I thought United had a US operation they could tap into but apparently that's over in England now.  Then there is the question of if you have a ground up, part time operation what happens to staffing after the 500?  A good team are the people, not the gear and the shop.  I think that's the key to the operation in which people they get and how they deal with it once the race is over.

Marshall Pruett talks to Chris Medland about recent developments, and all that is still up in the air.

 

https://marshallprue...-chris-medland/

So Chevy because of issues between Honda and McLaren, partner team Harding or Carpenter.

Edited by Joseki, 12 November 2018 - 21:17.

New team to be created;
https://motorsports....en-racing-team/

Pretty brave move that might indicate a longer-term plan.

Here's hoping they can show up and immediately do well. It won't be easy, but then again Alonso has always loved to paint himself as the underdog!

So Chevy because of issues between Honda and McLaren, partner team Harding or Carpenter.

Edited by red stick, 13 November 2018 - 15:39.

The early betting seems to be a technical alliance with ECR. Whether Harding retains Chevy power is a work in progress, as their is significant pushback in the paddock to Andretti having access to data on both powerplants, per an earlier MP TWII podcast.

Edited by Joseki, 13 November 2018 - 16:23.

Theoretically next year he could win the 500,LeMans and the WEC Title in the same year to go along with completing the Triple Crown. 

 

Pretty sure you still wouldn't be impressed though.

How can he not win the WEC title? He has no competition...

How can he not win the WEC title? He has no competition...

Edited by Joseki, 13 November 2018 - 18:09.

But I bet P Hill . G Hill, J Clark,A J Foyt , J Surtees or M Andretti ever received a penalty for ignoring blue flags. Though G Hill was once black flagged for his somewhat exhuberant/ erratic driving.

In those days, the blue flag was an advisory one, to warn you that you were about to be lapped.  it was not mandatory to pull off the track and park at the nearest drive-thru or risk a swingeing penalty.  Back then, the leaders expected to  pass other cars on merit not by the regulations. 

They should bring back the black flag though.  There were at least three drivers at the Braxilian GP who should have received it.

 

 
 
Michael spilled the beans already.

Is that the withdrawn tweet that was mentioned in the podcast?

Is that the withdrawn tweet that was mentioned in the podcast?

Edited by Joseki, 13 November 2018 - 18:11.

How can he not win the WEC title? He has no competition...

There are plenty of ways Alonso can fail to win the WEC title, even if that doesn't sit well with those who've been trying to diminish his efforts from the moment his partnership with Toyota was announced.

He certainly has a great shot at it, but let's see if it all falls into place first.

I'm a wee bit disappointed not to see him do the full season. I think he'd be really competitive and probably have a better chance of winning Indy as well. Given Toyota are red hot favourites for the WEC it'd be a bit of a shame to see him cruise to the title in Europe again.

Fernando could do with some time in the cars beforehand to increase his chance of winning.

You know, like a full season. 

Fernando could do with some time in the cars beforehand to increase his chance of winning.

 

You know, like a full season. 

If anything, a few oval races before would certainly be helpful. But there are none before Indy on the calendar if I looked at the right schedule. Road courses would not help much, if at all.

So I don't think not doing the full season has any influence on his Indy chances.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 14 November 2018 - 00:55.

Marshall Pruett talks to Chris Medland about recent developments, and all that is still up in the air.

 

https://marshallprue...-chris-medland/

They do a great job of unpacking what's going to be required.  Pretty much what we're talking about here.

I found the news that McLaren were looking to buy into SPM pretty interesting even if it didn't come to pass.  I thought the comment that rather than Andretti leaking early that he was out of the loop and wasn't going to be involved was telling.  Could he be that far out of the loop?  I'm not so sure about the ECR tie up as he's going to have the same concerns that Penske would about providing to someone that competes with them.  But ECR could use the money.  The other nugget that surprised me was that overall Alonso didn't move the needle on race day ratings.

They do a great job of unpacking what's going to be required.  Pretty much what we're talking about here.

 

I found the news that McLaren were looking to buy into SPM pretty interesting even if it didn't come to pass.  I thought the comment that rather than Andretti leaking early that he was out of the loop and wasn't going to be involved was telling.  Could he be that far out of the loop?

My impression from the whole deleted tweet affair is that somebody at Andretti had assumed things and was caught off-guard. Whether it's just negociation tactics remains to be seen, but it doesn't feel very... serene.

How can he not win the WEC title? He has no competition...

There are two Toyota's and they lost the last round did they not?

As an F1 fan you must be used to intra team only battles, they happen all the time. 

He moved it significantly in €uroland.
My pub was rammed with fans ( admittedly cheering for the local boy but Fred’s participation brought them in. )

Jp

According to Pruett overall the ratings didn't change.  I thought that was surprising too.   You couldn't tell by all the press and hype.  He said the first test being streamed was through the roof in terms of ratings.  I looked for some numbers from over there and found Spain, less than 500k but about twice normal (more than Monaco the same day).  It's only a couple hundred thousand compared to the previous non Alonso races but more is more.  In England is was quite a bit more than normal, about 129k average with a peak at 200k or so.  Historically it's only about 10-12k so that's quite a boost.  From those two a few hundred K difference.  Don't know that the rest of Europia would add substantially more but again, anything more is good.  Regardless having him around makes for damn fine racing regardless of how many watch on TV.

Pretty brave move that might indicate a longer-term plan.

We'll see what kind of a team that McLaren entry will be. If it's just mostly subcontracting and leasing, then it's barely anything more than Jonathan Byrd's Racing. But if they actually hire personnel and purchase equipment, then it might indicate long-term commitment to IndyCar.

I've always heard it's Monaco, but Alonso has both, so it's all good.

It only makes sense to be Monaco really. Both Le Mans and Indy 500 are individual races, so to have the third part be an entire championship makes no sense.

But yay anyway. I shall be watching.

Edited by sgtkate, 14 November 2018 - 15:52.

If the reports out the are correct, Honda is OK with Alonso but they don't want to mix with McLaren, so Chevrolet it is.

If the reports out the are correct, Honda is OK with Alonso but they don't want to mix with McLaren, so Chevrolet it is.

Fernando could do with some time in the cars beforehand to increase his chance of winning.

 

You know, like a full season. 

Yes, it's such a shame that IMS won't allow any laps before the big race.  Apart from the thousand or so that he will get through the month of May, that is.

He moved it significantly in €uroland.
My pub was rammed with fans ( admittedly cheering for the local boy but Fred’s participation brought them in. )

 

Really? I thought you were the only person in Reigate who had even heard of Chilton?

A shame. I can’t be the only one hoping for a happy ending to the Alonso/Honda saga.

You may be.  I can think of several other more compelling IndyCar soap operas I'd like to see end well.

For starters:

1.  Will Marco ever find Victory Lane again?

2.  Will Hinch rediscover his mojo and challenge the top teams consistently?

3.  Will A.J. get somebody, anybody, to reconnoiter for hazards on his property before he gets on his tractor?

4.  Will Michael find peace with McLaren and stop whining, or for our UK contingent, whinging, about what Ron Dennis allegedly did to him 25 years ago?

5.  Will Simon come to terms with the new car and more consistently challenge his teammates for IndyCar domination?

6.  Will Paul Tracy rediscover his internal editor, assuming he ever had one?

7.  Will Dale Coyne ever have sufficient sponsorship for two drivers of his choosing?

8.  Will Michael Shank ever find happiness in IndyCar?

9.  Steinbrenner.  Racing.  If family history means anything, this should be a gold mine.

10.  Will Alexander Rossi discover inner peace?

Alonso?  Honda?  Pish!

Edited by red stick, 14 November 2018 - 18:32.

Here's hope that Alonso's "Team McLaren" (cough cough cough) arrival won't be again at the expense of another driver who has to surrender his one time (engine) deal to make place for a bigger name than him, or her....