Millennials' Headwind on Autosports

As the audience for autosports increasingly skews older and smaller (as the elders die off), those who promote the sport have the intractable problem of automobiles are much less relevant to the younger audience who could sustain the future. Here's a link to an article that explains how in the USA the ownership and everyday use of automobiles is markedly down somewhat because the Millennial generation find them a bit of a waste of time and money. Rolling from place to place to do business seems a bit quaint and wasteful in an age where most everything can be done online. Hence the rise of on-demand transportation (enabled via online systems) and their acceptance of a future with self-driving vehicles. In the self-driving vehicle, you can keep working, shopping, socializing, etc. while on the way to that necessarily in-person event. 

https://www.washingt...m=.7972c80e0263

I personally can’t wait for self driving cars. I love motorsport but there’s no fun in driving on public roads. Frankly I find it A waste of time I could spend A lot better. So Yeah as A 31 year old I can agree with What the article is saying.

Also traffic jams will be greatly reduced which alone would be reason enough to push for the tech ASAP!

Is this basically a 'The Younger Generation's Relationship with Motorsport' thread? Because I do think that an extremely important debate within the sport. 

Also, just to clarify, the Millennial group (GenY) is generally considered those born between roughly 1980 and 1995. 1995 onwards is entering the realm of GenZ. Both probably deserve discussion as distinct groups.

Edited by Ben1445, 08 November 2018 - 13:28.

Is this basically a 'The Younger Generation's Relationship with Motorsport' thread? Because I do think that an extremely important debate within the sport. 

 

Also, just to clarify, the Millennial group (GenY) is generally considered those born between roughly 1980 and 1995. 1995 onwards is entering the realm of GenZ. Both probably deserve discussion as distinct groups.

I agree that the article is probably best though of as describing the late Millennials and early Gen Z groups. 

For me this is the exact reason why F1 should stop to try being 'revelant' to road cars. It can only remain relevant if it will be its own niche and turn itself in some kind of 'extreme sport' 

I feel that this is more the post 1990 born people. I'm from '81 and most of my age do have a lot of interest in cars. We still had posters with the F40 and the like. The current generation is still being ferried around by their parents I guess. 

Just like in the previous thread, cars and the use of it are much more expensive these days.

Edited by SenorSjon, 08 November 2018 - 13:43.

For me this is the exact reason why F1 should stop to try being 'revelant' to road cars. It can only remain relevant if it will be its own niche and turn itself in some kind of 'extreme sport' 

That is definitely one school of thought. Doing so does come with the implicit acceptance that it is a sport in decline - which is ok, but there will be the implications that come with that. Such as the levels of money involved decreasing dramatically over time - big money series like Formula One will have to fundamentally change if that route is taken.  

Edited by Ben1445, 08 November 2018 - 13:45.

Is this basically a 'The Younger Generation's Relationship with Motorsport' thread? Because I do think that an extremely important debate within the sport. 

 

Also, just to clarify, the Millennial group (GenY) is generally considered those born between roughly 1980 and 1995. 1995 onwards is entering the realm of GenZ. Both probably deserve discussion as distinct groups.

Maybe, but I suspect all you'll see is an intensification of the millennial trend among the Gen Z'ers, who look even less likely to consider car ownership to be anything other than a chore.

As someone who lies in that funny three or four year period between Gen X and the millennials (i.e. born in the late 1970s), I find everyday car use crap. I mainly use my car at the weekend to access places that are a pain to get to on public transport so I can go out walking. Had the UK's rural rail network not been butchered in the '60s then I might not even have needed to use it for that.

Edited by wj_gibson, 08 November 2018 - 13:48.

Isn't it a bit early to talk doom and gloom when you're discussing people who are, what, 18-25? Where are they going to drive? College? Their parents?

More importantly: it costs about €300 a month to own and drive even a small car here in the Netherlands. How are they going to afford a car? From their student loans?

People that age with full-time jobs tend to work in jobs that are, on average, more local (thus no need for a car), or - especially in technical services like repairs, plumbing, construction - have their employer provide a car for working hours (because of the tools, equipment, etc.).

Maybe, but I suspect all you'll see is an intensification of the millennial trend among the Gen Z'ers, who look even less likely to consider car ownership to be anything other than a chore.

I see Millennials as the transition group and GenZ as the new wave group. So yeah I agree.

I mainly just wanted to avoid people wrongly referring to 1995 onwards as Millennials when there is technically a disctintion. 

Isn't it a bit early to talk doom and gloom when you're discussing people who are, what, 18-25? Where are they going to drive? College? Their parents?

 

More importantly: it costs about €300 a month to own and drive even a small car here in the Netherlands. How are they going to afford a car? From their student loans?

 

People that age with full-time jobs tend to work in jobs that are, on average, more local (thus no need for a car), or - especially in technical services like repairs, plumbing, construction - have their employer provide a car for working hours (because of the tools, equipment, etc.).

I had my first car at 19-20 and used it a lot? But Social Media was nothing more than MSN Messenger and ICQ back then. We still used the 'call' function on phones to make appointments to meet each other. 

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 November 2018 - 14:15.

I'm 23 and hold similar views. But it doesn't have any impact on my interest in motorsport.

How did you become interested in motorsport? 

I don't know if the conclusion of that report is correct, I don't know that it truly report a trend.

1. I fully agree that ride sharing is booming, we are using it ourselves and it is great.
2. We are also two adults, with two cars. I work 20 miles away, and there is no way I can use public transportation going there.
3. If you live in this area close to New York the choice of being close to the city is expensive, rents and real estate are going up, up, up.
4. Schools are not considered good in Jersey City and Hoboken if you are affluent, meaning those who can leave for the suburbs once the kids come along - And the kids come along later than they used to, so you can have you millennial hat on longer.
5. If you go shopping at the Supermarket you need a car.
6. If you go to IKEA you need a car.
7. If you go to Jersey Gardens outlet mall you need a car.

It's economics, like most in this world it is cyclic... https://www.statista...les-since-1951/

The death of the Automobile have been vastly overstated.

P.S. I enjoy my solitary driving back and forth from work

How did you become interested in motorsport?

I suppose you need to have an interest in cars,

I don't think even that is necessary. It's not like F1 car visually resembles a roadcar much apart from having wheels and an engine.

I think to be interested in motorsports you must have interest in (sporting) competition, fast hi-tech machines, which take a lot of skill to master and are fun to watch racing/competing/battling against each other.

TV. The part that I attached myself to was the sporting aspect (duh).

A very crude comparison would be that playing Soccer/Football/Rugby/Golf doesn't correlate to viewership.

I suppose you need to have an interest in cars, but again I think that's far removed from owning and using "automobiles".

I only ask really because I only know for sure that my interest appeared through being introduced by a parent. I can't say if I would ever have cottoned on on my own. I'm late-millennial/early-GenZ myself and I can recall from my peers who weren't introduced by parents that other people's interest was piqued either by racing games or by the arrival of Lewis Hamilton to Formula One. 

I feel that this is more the post 1990 born people. I'm from '81 and most of my age do have a lot of interest in cars. We still had posters with the F40 and the like. The current generation is still being ferried around by their parents I guess. 

 

Just like in the previous thread, cars and the use of it are much more expensive these days.

Yep. I learned (to my surprise) from a post early in the thread that, being born in 1983, I am technically a "millennial" even though I don't really identify with much of the stereotypical traits they (we?) are often tagged with.

That said, despite being a total motorsport nerd from age 8, and being very much that sort of kid with sportscar posters on the wall, models, a box of toy cars etc., I have never owned my own car. Of course I was literally starting driving lessons days after my 17th birthday with huge enthusiasm, but after passing my test it was like "now what?" I sure as hell couldn't afford to buy a car (even an old banger) and couldn't really expect my parents to fork out for one either. Plus university (not cheap) had to take priority too. And that's before mentioning insurance rates for male teenagers.

Over a decade later I started to reach a position with student debts paid off and reasonable salary that I afford one, a combination of being out of practice for so long, where I live (city centre) not really being conducive to either car travel or even practical considerations like parking etc. has to be honest just left me in a position where I have not got round to it. And when I feel like using up some disposable income having fun driving I'll head down the local karting track.

I only ask really because I only know for sure that my interest appeared through being introduced by a parent. I can't say if I would ever have cottoned on on my own. I'm late-millennial/early-GenZ myself and I can recall from my peers who weren't introduced by parents that other people's interest was piqued either by racing games or by the arrival of Lewis Hamilton to Formula One.

I happened to stumble across Monaco 2007 highlights one Sunday night. The rest is history. That somehow turned me into a huge Lewis Hamilton fan.

Beforehand I knew of F1, barely. I'm now wondering if Button's first win in Hungary and Schumacher's retirement had thrust F1 into the British public eye just enough to convince me to tune in the following year. I can recall, vividly, that I would search YouTube for Schumacher-Brazil 2006 and Button-Hungary 2006 montages very early on.

My parents didn't give a hoot. My partner is a huge Vettel fan and spent Sunday afternoons as a toddler listening to faint hymn of the V10s on her father's lap. How's that for conventional...

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 November 2018 - 15:58.

I don't think that people need to drive to be able to be motorsport fans.

I was never that enthusiastic about driving and I got rid of my car when I moved to a London flat with really good transport links (I think that the car vs non-car divide is more to do with city vs countryside rather than young vs old, but that's another matter). I've got plenty of friends who are in a similar situation including those who have never even tried to get their license but who are big fans of F1.

On the other hand, I absolutely love playing Poker, but I'd never bother watching other people play it on TV. And very few horse racing fans use a horse for their daily commute.

So long as motorsport is an entertaining spectacle, people's own driving habits don't need to be relevant to their enjoyment of it.

Personally, I love driving. Sure I hate traffic but good roads and a good car and I'm in a happy place.

I really don't think it's going to affect how interested younger generations have the potential to be. What will have to adapt is how it is marketed and the formats in which it is available, otherwise the interest will wane. It was only recently that Mr Ecclestone explicitly stated that F1 was not marketed at the young because they didn't have the money to spend on it. It's thinking like this, lagging behind the times, that will limit youth engagement in motorsport.

The convenience of owning a car can’t be matched by the likes of a taxi, but I guess it depends where you live. Motorsport’s problems are not related to that, they are born from complete incompetence from the people in power. Watch a replay of a race, from any series, in the 1980s or 1990s then watch something from today. The difference is incredible. What motorsport has turned into is just not COOL.

The ‘It was better in my day’ routine is a pretty damn ineffective method of persuading new viewers. It’s a highly damaging attitude really.

I don't think even that is necessary. It's not like F1 car visually resembles a roadcar much apart from having wheels and an engine.

 

I think to be interested in motorsports you must have interest in (sporting) competition, fast hi-tech machines, which take a lot of skill to master and are fun to watch racing/competing/battling against each other.

I think you're both making too many assumptions. I don't have any interest in cars nor in hi-tech machines, nor in any kind of a technology and I don't care how much skill things do take to master.

The only thing I cared about was competition. I switched to motorsport from football (soccer) because it offered more unpredictability. But recently my interest in motorsport has been decreasing because the increasing professionalism means less unpredactibility (fewer mechanicals, strategic blunders and even race-ending driver mistakes seem to be rarer nowadays) and I'm turning more towards road cycling.

About cars, I was born in 1992 and I hate driving. I have a driving licence (I was convinced by my familiy to get one) but I will do anything in my life not to have to deal with maintaining and using my own car.

I am not here to recruit new viewers.

I think you're both making too many assumptions. I don't have any interest in cars nor in hi-tech machines, nor in any kind of a technology and I don't care how much skill things do take to master.

 

The only thing I cared about was competition. I switched to motorsport from football (soccer) because it offered more unpredictability. But recently my interest in motorsport has been decreasing because the increasing professionalism means less unpredactibility (fewer mechanicals, strategic blunders and even race-ending driver mistakes seem to be rarer nowadays) and I'm turning more towards road cycling.

 

About cars, I was born in 1992 and I hate driving. I have a driving licence (I was convinced by my familiy to get one) but I will do anything in my life not to have to deal with maintaining and using my own car.

Having "interest" in hi-tech machines is over-the-top from me indeed. You don't need to have exact interest in them. Just what I mean is you like that something is going around really fast. You like fast things. Doesn't matter, what it is, lol.

But I get your point, totally.

For example cycling compared to motor racing feels boring to me, because that's slow, lol. 

The biggest threat to gaining new audiences is hiding the sport paywalls. Unlike football or cricket which any kid can play with their mates in the back garden, the number of people who can afford to race is tiny so you are not going to get fans from those who participate. They need to give the next generation the chance to stumble across F1 on free tv and get hooked. That’s what happened with me 30 years ago (ouch, that makes me feel old!).

Edited by Vielleicht, 08 November 2018 - 17:58.

I feel that this is more the post 1990 born people. I'm from '81 and most of my age do have a lot of interest in cars. We still had posters with the F40 and the like. The current generation is still being ferried around by their parents I guess. 

 

Just like in the previous thread, cars and the use of it are much more expensive these days.

I guess you didn't read the article? They aren't being ferried around by parents. They are using Uber/Lyft, etc. They are using Zipcar, etc. They are renting cars, bikes, walking, mass transit. 

I've stated this before, motorsport is the new horse racing.

F1 has been constantly telling anyone who'll listen how dull it is since about 2002, jumping from knee-jerk rule change to knee-jerk rule change as it fetishizes a return to a past glory that never existed.

Is it any wonder that young people with no end of entertainment options would turn away from a sport that is so keen to tell the world how boring it is?

I am Gen Z and I love motorsports, I love to see a beautiful Ferrari or Mercedes on the road, but driving on the overcrowded roads? It's dead boring for me, a waste of time. Maybe if you find a nice road in the hills with interesting corners and nobody around you, but in the city? Nothing worse than the traffic.

I am not here to recruit new viewers.

What are you actually trying to achieve?

Edited by Vielleicht, 08 November 2018 - 18:21.

Indeed, you’re just here to moan about how unsatisfied you are.

My advice is don’t engage much with the things you hate. You’ll only make someone else miserable too, and that helps no one.

No, I am giving my opinion on the supposed demise of motorsport and it's relationship to road car ownership. If you don't like it, don't read my posts. 

No, I am giving my opinion on the supposed demise of motorsport and it's relationship to road car ownership. If you don't like it, don't read my posts. 

Doesn't make a difference to me, moan all you like (though don't expect to never be challenged).

I was just trying to help you and the sport out a little bit. 

F1 has been constantly telling anyone who'll listen how dull it is since about 2002, jumping from knee-jerk rule change to knee-jerk rule change as it fetishizes a return to a past glory that never existed.

Is it any wonder that young people with no end of entertainment options would turn away from a sport that is so keen to tell the world how boring it is?

A few loft-living inner-city urban hipsters don't own cars and that is depicted as the new norm?  In the real world, young people are still learning to drive, buying old cars and driving them.  Why? Because unless you are living in one of those hipster haunts, there is no alternative.  If you live in Little Snoring on the Marsh (or Nowheresville, Oaklahoma) and you work somewhere else ten or more miles away, how do you get to work?  There's no buses and the trains have been closed down. Don't talk to me about on-demand driverless transportation - that's possibly (but only possibly) feasible in cities, but not in the wider suburban and rural environment. 

And linking all this to motorsport is specious.  Every GP, we get these unwanted and much derided shots of the fans in the stands.  And guess what?  They aren't your grandparents, they are enthusiastic younger people, often with children who are equally excited.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 09 November 2018 - 09:10.
Removed last bit. No need to call people names.

The biggest threat to gaining new audiences is hiding the sport paywalls. Unlike football or cricket which any kid can play with their mates in the back garden, the number of people who can afford to race is tiny so you are not going to get fans from those who participate. They need to give the next generation the chance to stumble across F1 on free tv and get hooked. That’s what happened with me 30 years ago (ouch, that makes me feel old!).

Hiding F1 behind paywalls is definitely the biggest long term threat IMO.  However there is an intangible benefit to the sport of having big manufacturers in the sport because of the marketing heft they bring in, whether it be a large Lewis Hamilton cardboard cut out in every Mercedes dealer or Renault emphasising its racing history predominantly forged in F1 as it advertises Clios.  If interest in those brands subsides then the value of that manufacturer marketing heft for F1 also drops

We don't know what the future holds for cars, however its possible that like the iPhone/Galaxy revolution that pushed previous mobile phone giants like Nokia out of the way and into bankruptcy the transition to electric and self drive could completely change the automotive landscape and there is no guarantee that the new wave of manufacturers or suppliers would be as interested in F1.  If the sport loses corporate backing both from car manufacturers and associated sponsors then it could die off.  

A few loft-living inner-city urban hipsters don't own cars and that is depicted as the new norm?  In the real world, young people are still learning to drive, buying old cars and driving them.  Why? Because unless you are living in one of those hipster haunts, there is no alternative.  If you live in Little Snoring on the Marsh (or Nowheresville, Oaklahoma) and you work somewhere else ten or more miles away, how do you get to work?  There's no buses and the trains have been closed down. Don't talk to me about on-demand driverless transportation - that's possibly (but only possibly) feasible in cities, but not in the wider suburban and rural environment. 

 

And linking all this to motorsport is specious.  Every GP, we get these unwanted and much derided shots of the fans in the stands.  And guess what?  They aren't your grandparents, they are enthusiastic younger people, often with children who are equally excited.

 

 

They're not though. The number of teenagers getting licences and millennials with licences have both collapsed over the past decade, and even those who have them often do not own a car. The majority of the country live in urban areas, with at least something of a public transport system - as rubbish as it can be outside London. What the rest do in places you do need a car I don't really know, but maybe the ones who do drive overwhelmingly live in small towns, or we've got a lot of young people who really like walking.

We don't know what the future holds for cars, however its possible that like the iPhone/Galaxy revolution that pushed previous mobile phone giants like Nokia out of the way and into bankruptcy the transition to electric and self drive could completely change the automotive landscape and there is no guarantee that the new wave of manufacturers or suppliers would be as interested in F1.  If the sport loses corporate backing both from car manufacturers and associated sponsors then it could die off.  

I think this is a highly likely scenario to keep our eyes on. Whilst everyone seems to be focused on Telsa, some of the real interest is in who's making the deepest changes in established manufacturers.  Hedge your bets wrong and your huge automotive company could be left stranded and way behind with no hope of catching up. Hard to tell what new manufactures might be able to emerge and stick around. Tesla are obviously top of the fame pile, but show little to no official interest in racing (yet). There have been two new brand Formula E tie ups so far in Faraday-Future and NIO. The first of which seems to have gone cold but NIO, who many put in the same bucket as FF, seem to be getting somewhere. They broke circuit records with their EP9, started delivering their ES8 earlier this year and have an ES6 in the pipeline. They even made an appearance at Cranfield University's careers fair in the UK. So they're out there looking for young talent. 

There's definitely movement in the industry and market, so I really think the 2020s are going to be fascinating times for the automotive sector. We all talk about the price of car ownership here as the reason for decline in young people driving, and that's a large part of it for sure - but these are generations who have grown up being taught that emissions are bad. I'm willing to bet that has played it's part as well. 

Im not surprised really. I remember even when I was just getting my license, smart phones were non existent and the phone technology we had was rubbish. The internet was dial up and slow. if you wanted to communicate with your friends you have to physically drive to see them. Therefore owning a car was very important and people couldn't wait for their 17th birthday so they could drive.

But now with the state of interconnection of phones, computers, internet etc I really think people see each other less and just communicate wherever they happen to be. So the importance of a car is really greatly reduced. They're really just something 'older' people need to get to work. Rather than having a nice car, people care about having the current phone. That reduction of interest in cars will directly dovetail into a reduction of interest in motorsport.

Edited by RPM40, 08 November 2018 - 22:41.

When the car came along and replaced the horse as the primary means of transport, horse racing didn’t die. I see it the same with Motorsport. Whilst it started with people racing their road cars, it very quickly diverted away from road cars to specialist vehicles. There haven’t been genuine road cars racing in the big events for decades.

The road relevance argument is purely a justification for the shareholders if the big motor companies. Yes there will be trickle down tech that is developed for racing and is applicable in a road vehicle, but other than as a marketing exercise for the car companies, it shouldn’t be seen as a development/relevance platform.

The biggest threat to gaining new audiences is hiding the sport paywalls. Unlike football or cricket which any kid can play with their mates in the back garden, the number of people who can afford to race is tiny so you are not going to get fans from those who participate. They need to give the next generation the chance to stumble across F1 on free tv and get hooked. That’s what happened with me 30 years ago (ouch, that makes me feel old!).

The next generation doesn't watch tv that way, well at least my kids don't. 

Edited by RacingGreen, 08 November 2018 - 23:07.

The next generation doesn't watch tv that way, well at least my kids don't. 

I just turned 55 and I don't watch TV that way anymore.

I've stated this before, motorsport is the new horse racing.

It's going to be kept alive for the sole purpose of gambling?

The next generation doesn't watch tv that way, well at least my kids don't. 

They're not paying for subscriptions for sports on the internet either.