Racing Point 2019: Stroll, Stroll and Perez

You just make youself look silly trying to even put Stroll in the breath as Lewis the fastest guy perhaps of all time next to Senna.  It completely shuts down anything you were even trying to convey.  Be a fan of Stroll fine.. accept the truth..  As for Lewis, everyone knows he hasn't had a clean Q3 start.. Lost his engineer to Bottas and it's unsettled his quali prep. 

 

Ocon was faster in qualifying by a fair margin over Perez.  Perez is destroying Lance thus far in qualifying... So Lance is horrendous over 1 lap pace.  That's not even up for debate.  FULL STOP.  

 

Lance wouldn't be at RP if it wasn't for his father.    NO debate.

Lance was only at WIlliams for his dads cash after year 1 especially.. NO debate.  He wasn't in the team on merit.

Lance isn't at RP on merit, he's there by his father choice solely and his father hoped Lance's Williams form was due to the Williams desig turmoil that is beyond evident this season which Sr. must have known well..

 

Unfortunately for Stroll Sr... its clear his son is simply not 1lap fast.. which is a big deal. 

 

How Stroll is going to deal with it remains to be seen.. he may just be fine with it and just ensure they have a bonifide NO. 1 that isn't his son..and hope his son is close enough to collect the remaining points behind the lead driver.  It's not as if RP is going to leap into top 3 before 2021..

 

Tough days for the Stroll Family.. way back on the grid from where they technical talent should have them.  The worse pairing the FI team has had in a while.  We'll see how capable Stroll Sr. is to make the hard calls when needed.

You just made yourself look silly by not understanding context and nuance, it undoes all your silliness trying to compare Stroll to Hamilton FULL STOP (!).

Is it or is it not a FACT that Stroll was closer to Perez than Hamilton to Bottas?  'Oh but reasons.....'  

Put simply, just for you, I'll reiterate that some context needs to be used, Stroll ISN'T getting destroyed by Perez, he's lacking 0.2 sec under the pressure of qualifying, he always has.  To use your point against you, you're like most Hamilton apologists, there always an excuse why Hamilton isn't number one on any given day, but maybe sometimes he just doesn't drive like a number one.....

I'll reiterate for you, my mantra here, context. I'm not a Stroll fan, I'm ambivalent, I'd love Ocon back in that seat, and there's drivers more deserving than he, for sure, but he's certainly no waste of time, and his dad has helped save a team, that buys Lance some time in my book.

Maybe he can find those 2 tenths in qualifying, maybe he cant, I think Perez will be a great consistent reference for him to try, so I'm prepared to give him the season to see if he progresses, he's pretty solid in races, doesn't crash into people, isn't reckless like Haas' boys.

Again, just for you, context, there's been far worse drivers in F1, if he was 1 sec off the pace every qualy, sure, chuck his ass out, but he's not.  These Perelli's seem to be a nightmare to understand, more so this year.  0.2 sec is better than I thought he'd be....

As for Ocon, he was MARGINALLY faster than Perez over a lap, and Perez is not destroying Stroll by any means, even if you do add FULL STOP as a means of desperately making your point true

Hamilton as good as Senna? Give me a break.......

I don't think it's conveniently forgetting that - they're two different things entirely. And as you said, if he qualified better he'd be even further ahead at the end of lap one...

There's also the argument that it's easier to make up early places from that far back if you're essentially out of position in a quick car. But that'd overlook the fact that for all he's rubbish over a qualifying lap, Stroll has a lot to like. He's a good racer, brave overtaker, consistent over a race distance and seems to will his car up the field on the first lap like he's playing on his Xbox.

But I'm struggling to see how Perez has done anything this season but prove that he's a class above and that's gotta be an issue for Stroll Sr. On paper, this was a good pairing for his lad because Perez himself is not renowned as a fast qualifier and indeed was beaten quite comprehensively by Ocon in that respect in 2018. Two drivers with a similar skillset on paper. Pair Stroll with someone like Ocon and he'd be on the receiving end of a 20-0 potentially, Perez works.

Except he doesn't, because Perez is still much better. I've always liked Perez, you look at someone like Hulkenberg or particularly Magnussen and they've got their supporters who'll tell you that they're a World Champion in waiting and performing 10/10 heroics in a sh*tbox car, and I think much as they're good drivers, it's generally little more than fanboy ramblings really - but in Perez you have someone who is delivering year in year out and still despite that is getting nowhere further up the grid. He got podiums and nearly won in a Sauber, then jumped into a McLaren and matched Jenson Button (not good enough there, though) before beating Hulkenberg and Ocon more often than not over about two decades at Force India. A handful of podiums and a low profile are all he really has to show from it.

Oh, ok, and a couple of penthouses and a Maserati and stuff, but y'know.

Pretty much agree with this. I rate Perez - quality driver - to get podiums in this modern era as a midfielder is not easy....ask Hulk/Sainz.

I'm a simple guy. If someone is quick in qualifying, they have the raw speed. That's what matters most. Racecraft etc. can sort itself out later, with experience.

If you lack qualifying pace, the issue is more likely...lack of talent. In the race, you are likely to look better than you actually are if you are starting behind the cars you should have been ahead of in the first place. 

How can you be in a Force India and not be out of Q1 yet?

Why would that criteria be important for a top team? You always want your driver to be on it, not just a few races a year whenever a rare opportunity arises. That Ocon was better head to head yet lost in the points simply means that when he was the better driver, big points or points at all weren't always on the table on that day based on how competitive FI was. In a top team big amount of points are always there, and the point standings between them might've looked different had they scored those all year.
 
The not being allowed to race each other is an interesting factor but is not proof for that Perez otherwise would have managed to overtake Ocon. So in races where that happened and Ocon finished ahead, it's still Ocon that was the better driver that weekend in getting the maximum result. Qualifying is important at a top team too, often leads to getting the better strategy etc.

Funny how the return of the Ocon/Perez discussion came right when the team fell behind. Looks like the upgrades weren't worth much, or maybe they were but the competition did a way better job. Now they are saying that the true B-Spec is coming for Germany, so let's prepare for more pain and misery from Racing Point.

Funny how the return of the Ocon/Perez discussion came right when the team fell behind. Looks like the upgrades weren't worth much, or maybe they were but the competition did a way better job. Now they are saying that the true B-Spec is coming for Germany, so let's prepare for more pain and misery from Racing Point.

The main problem is that Stroll does not seem to be annoyed when he gets spanked by his teammate day in day out.

He is just like that 

For me that's pretty clear that he is not willing to fight.

He is just happy to have F1 life.

Team ambiance might be healthier but i sense that hunger has been lost in the process.

i wonder how much time Team shareholders will keep their patience.

The main problem is that Stroll does not seem to be annoyed when he gets spanked by his teammate day in day out.

He is just like that

For me that's pretty clear that he is not willing to fight.

He is just happy to have F1 life.

Team ambiance might be healthier but i sense that hunger has been lost in the process.

i wonder how much time Team shareholders will keep their patience.

Or he knows he's not a top tier guy and over the moon that he has a ride and the privledge of being in a probably soon to be good car .

The main problem is that Stroll does not seem to be annoyed when he gets spanked by his teammate day in day out.

 

He is just like that 

 

For me that's pretty clear that he is not willing to fight.

 

He is just happy to have F1 life.

 

Team ambiance might be healthier but i sense that hunger has been lost in the process.

 

i wonder how much time Team shareholders will keep their patience.

How do you know all this? You his BFF, or what?

Funny how the return of the Ocon/Perez discussion came right when the team fell behind. Looks like the upgrades weren't worth much, or maybe they were but the competition did a way better job. Now they are saying that the true B-Spec is coming for Germany, so let's prepare for more pain and misery from Racing Point.

It would be tragically ironic if Racing Point have their worst season the very first season they get a cash injection.

As a counter point to me defending Stroll, maybe Perez is losing a tenth or two by not having that burning desire of beating a team mate he despises like the last 2 years with Ocon, so maybe some is the car, much is the 2nd driver (Stroll) and maybe some is a tenth of determination that Perez is missing, and thats vital in this midfield.

Canada and Austria will be interesting tracks to see where they are travelling.

And Stroll, if you're reading this (obviously all drivers read our forums) I defended you the last few weeks and you were rubbish at Monaco, help me out and actually do something decent please!

Or maybe the characteristics of Catalunya and Monaco simply don’t suit the car? Montreal should suit the car a lot better.

Yes, that's also possible. Force India has traditionally been strong in Canada, just like in Baku.

It would be tragically ironic if Racing Point have their worst season the very first season they get a cash injection.

 

As a counter point to me defending Stroll, maybe Perez is losing a tenth or two by not having that burning desire of beating a team mate he despises like the last 2 years with Ocon, so maybe some is the car, much is the 2nd driver (Stroll) and maybe some is a tenth of determination that Perez is missing, and thats vital in this midfield.

 

Canada and Austria will be interesting tracks to see where they are travelling.

 

And Stroll, if you're reading this (obviously all drivers read our forums) I defended you the last few weeks and you were rubbish at Monaco, help me out and actually do something decent please!

If China and Baku hadn't happened, I'd agree, but he squeezed every drop of performance out of that car in both races and was recognized pretty much everywhere.... back to back 10s from Autosport, for instance.

The main problem is that Stroll does not seem to be annoyed when he gets spanked by his teammate day in day out.

 

He is just like that 

 

For me that's pretty clear that he is not willing to fight.

 

This would be the same Lance Stroll who was BEHIND his team-mate on the grid, but IN FRONT of his team-mate by the end of lap 1?  Obviously not fighting at all.

It all went a bit pear-shaped for him after that, but it was Monaco...

Yes, that's also possible. Force India has traditionally been strong in Canada, just like in Baku.

Sopa, FI stopped being FI in what Feb of 2018.. the 2019 was super late and underdeveloped as a result of all their turmoil.  This years car is nothing reflective of F1.. perhaps RP and time will tell if they can get back on track.  Trying to say its a good track for them is meaningless for 2019 on any circuit and time will tell if they can rebaseline to FI like car and track strengths.  This season is a write off for them and then add in Lance can't come close to what Ocon was doing for them and makes results even that much harder to come by for them.

Edited by Paco, 29 May 2019 - 21:33.

If China and Baku hadn't happened, I'd agree, but he squeezed every drop of performance out of that car in both races and was recognized pretty much everywhere.... back to back 10s from Autosport, for instance.

Yes that is very true, but I wonder, on weekends where the car is nowhere, is he still getting the 100%? I'm Not saying he isn't btw, I'm a fan, I think he's a great driver, I'm just wondering if not having an Ocon/Hulk next to him has an impact at times.... most drivers say it does help them push harder with a strong team mate.

Great stuff from Lance today. Made the most of having the clearly best compound for the conditions, and drove great in the clean air. No idea why they split the strategy and no idea why they stuck with the medium for so long with Checo... all the evidence they needed was Sainz doin 1'17s as soon as he put on the hards. Checo didn't help, he couldn't keep up with Kvyat and had a few strings of laps hovering 1'18 when he should have been in the low 17s. Bad race for him in general.

I would say that Stroll outperezed Perez today.

Finally a good race from Stroll. Just about time too, at home soil!

Another amazing race by Stroll 100% DoD. He has occasional flashes or brilliance ! Something you cant say about the much hyped Hulk 

The main problem is that Stroll does not seem to be annoyed when he gets spanked by his
that hunger has been lost in the process.

i wonder how much time Team shareholders will keep their patience.

I would say that Stroll outperezed Perez today.

Another amazing race by Stroll 100% DoD. He has occasional flashes or brilliance ! Something you cant say about the much hyped Hulk 

Lol you hate Hulk don't you...This is the racinng point thread.

For what it's worth, Hulk passed Bottas and kept him behind (like he should have) on the first lap. and then overcut Gasly today (like he should have). So he didn't exactly have a bad day.

Edited by ARTGP, 09 June 2019 - 22:24.

It would be tragically ironic if Racing Point have their worst season the very first season they get a cash injection.

 

As a counter point to me defending Stroll, maybe Perez is losing a tenth or two by not having that burning desire of beating a team mate he despises like the last 2 years with Ocon, so maybe some is the car, much is the 2nd driver (Stroll) and maybe some is a tenth of determination that Perez is missing, and thats vital in this midfield.

 

Canada and Austria will be interesting tracks to see where they are travelling.

 

And Stroll, if you're reading this (obviously all drivers read our forums) I defended you the last few weeks and you were rubbish at Monaco, help me out and actually do something decent please!

I knew they read these forums!!!!  I'm expecting a call from the Stroll family to become his motivational coach!

Very pleased for Stroll, very good qualifying given he was back on the old engine through no fault of his own, and fantastic race, for me, also very easily DoD too, he edges out Dan and Hulk who to me were P2 and P3 for DoD, top two made mistakes that rule them out.....

Lol you hate Hulk don't you...This is the racinng point thread.

For what it's worth, Hulk passed Bottas and kept him behind (like he should have) on the first lap. and then overcut Gasly today (like he should have). So he didn't exactly have a bad day.

Edited by Collective, 09 June 2019 - 23:01.

Some people... and cmon, brilliance? Good strategy and clean air. Made the most out of the clean air, yes, but any driver worth his salt would have done that.

IMO Kvyat did better getting 10th on the bad M-H strategy.

Hulk has never being flashy driver in F1. Likely one of reason why he never got top seat. He is always solid and consistent and usually fast. Doesnt do too much risk.

Edited by Neno, 09 June 2019 - 23:10.

Sorry for the offtopic but the suggestion that Hulk has never shown any better than Stroll in this GP is making me laugh.

Nice weekend for Stroll. Closer to Perez in Q, and an excellent race. Given the engine he was using today (and the retirement situation in Bakku), I'd say this was a better result than his podium a couple of years ago. Lance needs to keep working on his one lap speed, and maintain those good starts, if he is to inch his way into the points each race weekend.

I'd put this down to an off weekend for Perez. I expect a return to form next race.

Edited by Collective, 24 June 2019 - 01:22.

As a midfield team you have to be prepared to pounce on an opportunuty. The rewards can be pretty good.

Felt both drivers did well enough in Austria. The car is simply not quite there, Stroll could never challenge Hulkenberg and Checo could never challenge Giovinazzi. Great start by Checo, but once I saw Sainz go purple on sector one in his first proper lap after his pit stop I knew the quest for points was over. There are now 4 teams that are guaranteed to take positions 1-8 in a normal dry race in a track that allows for overtakes. Sainz started dead last, and comfortable made it up to 8th. Points finishes will be few and far in between unless that promised update for Germany blows it out of the water.

Massive update for Germany, supposedly. Hope they nailed it, but not particularly optimistic given the starting point.

Good session for Stroll. Perhaps the work with JP is helping. Tomorrow will give a better idea.

Edited by HeadFirst, 26 July 2019 - 22:15.

Car seems to have moved forward, today and tomorrow will show. Good to have them fighting mid-field. 

The quali Battle is resolved, 10-0 to Perez (who is no particular great qualifier based on 2018 but not 2017)

First time out of Q1 for Stroll, good of you to notice.

Perez so inconsistant. Plenty of other pay drivers to replace with.

Amazimg performance from Stroll. He is good in changeable conditions

Perez so inconsistant. Plenty of other pay drivers to replace with.

Not with that much money.  Be hard to find one with more talent.  I don't know of any consistent pay drivers??

Perez so inconsistant. Plenty of other pay drivers to replace with.

Come on, Perez is pretty much the opposite of inconsistent, the guy has brought 100% of all Force India podiums over the last five years.

Come on, Perez is pretty much the opposite of inconsistent, the guy has brought 100% of all Force India podiums over the last five years.