Ford versus Ferrari movie (merged)

I agree. A mass-murderer should only be played by an actor who has killed at least five innocent people. No fake performances, please.

[Releases tongue in cheek]

Ultra left wing dweebs Damon and Bale are of course better known for playing, respectively, a CIA-trained killer and a millionaire vigilante crimefighter.

As it is directed by the person who did the absolute pissant redo of 3:10 to Yuma, i will not waste money on it.

With to ultra--left dweebs playng lead roles, it is an insult to the people they play.

 Oh, absolutely.  In German, there is a word for it: Berufsverbot. This should apply to any actor or actress who ever dares to utter any left-wing sympathies. And as for authors who are similarly inclined, their books should obviously be burned.

Sigh.

Godwin's Law

"A number of groups have the tradition that when this happens the discussion is regarded as over......"

Edited by Myhinpaa, 09 June 2019 - 11:27.

I agree. A mass-murderer should only be played by an actor who has killed at least five innocent people. No fake performances, please.
[Releases tongue in cheek]

Some one who at least has an inkling of what a Texan from those days was like would be better than some boy who lives in fantasy land.

To expect them to consider a Texan actor to portray Carroll Shelby would be too much to ask for I guess.....

Tommy Lee Jones would have been perfect if it hadn't been for the considerable age difference, Shelby was 40ish in '64.

Some have mentioned Matthew McConaughey, and I can't say I disagree, he would be much more convincing than Matt Damon. (In that role)

Edsel Ford's comment on Twitter + here

PS. Interesting part of an interview with Carroll Shelby here where he speaks about the GT40, Eric Broadley and Ken Miles.

PSS. I will also add that even if it's "only a film" it's very disappointing when laziness, ignorance and stupidity detracts from a film based on true stories.

         A Shelby historian offered his insight early on in the production, and heard nothing back. All three of the above mentioned flaws seems present.....

Edited by Myhinpaa, 09 June 2019 - 22:32.

Just to avert any misunderstanding of my post expressing astonishment at discovering Damon was meant to be playing Carroll Shelby, I had no idea whatsoever that some of the actor's countrymen regard him as being unsuited since they consider him to be "an ultra-left dweeb" - which Shel most definitely was NOT!  No wonder the red-necks of the Shelby fraternity are unimpressed...

​My knowledge of modern era actors could be carved on the head of a pin. 

I find him unsuited merely because he appears to be wrong shape, wrong size, wrong voice, wrong everything...just a piece of ---- casting...and I've only seen the trailer.  

I should also confess, however, that the last movie my wife and I actually went to a cinema to watch was 'Grease'...and the last movie I actually saw in a cinema (apart from a recent one in which I was involved) was 'E.T.'.  But to me mere actors' political leanings are totally irrelevant...as indeed are most actors per se.

DCN

Just to avert any misunderstanding of my post expressing astonishment at discovering Damon was meant to be playing Carroll Shelby, I had no idea whatsoever that some of the actor's countrymen regard him as being unsuited since they consider him to be "an ultra-left dweeb" - which Shel most definitely was NOT! No wonder the red-necks of the Shelby fraternity are unimpressed...

​My knowledge of modern era actors could be carved on the head of a pin.

I find him unsuited merely because he appears to be wrong shape, wrong size, wrong voice, wrong everything...just a piece of ---- casting...and I've only seen the trailer.

I should also confess, however, that the last movie my wife and I actually went to a cinema to watch was 'Grease'...and the last movie I actually saw in a cinema (apart from a recent one in which I was involved) was 'E.T.'. But to me mere actors' political leanings are totally irrelevant...as indeed are most actors per se.

DCN

Trigger warning: I bring some news that may be shocking and upsetting to some people.

This film will be a movie, not a race. It will be designed to appeal to moviegoers, first and last. Those who would rather be watching races than watching movies will probably dislike this film, because it will serve merely to remind them of what they would rather be doing.

Moreover, as a movie, it will be fundamentally a work of fiction, even though it may be loosely based on fact. Unbearable though it might be, this means that some of the actors in the movie may not share the same political beliefs as the characters they portray. We at TNF have long known that the world is a cruel and unfair place, which gives me hope that we will somehow find the strength to soldier on in the face of yet more injustice.

But don't worry; it's only a matter of time before Clint Eastwood returns and makes movies great again.

Kyle Chandler would have at least looked more the part of Carroll Shelby:

That shirt is a quite close match for the material of the down home dungaree style outfit that Carroll Shelby wore when he co-drove the Le Mans winning Aston. My knowledge of films and actors is comparable to Doug's, but if he's got trousers to match, maybe that actor would have been a better choice to play Carroll in this unpromising-sounding US film.

 

With two ultra--left dweebs playng lead roles, it is an insult two the people they play.

 What an absurd comment . Ever heard the expression 'Judge the art , not the artist'  ? They are actors - playing other people  - it's sort of how it works ...

One slight worry I have about this movie. Coming from an American based company, another attempt to glorify Yankee ingenuity versus "the old world" ?

Downplaying, for example, if `the Cobra factor` is brought in: downplaying the bare fact that Shellby needed to look abroad for a decent chassis to start with, be inspired by because America had nothing decent to offer for him to start his plans with in that aspect?

Or, the results of the first years with the GT40s when results were not that encouraging, not giving too much attention to that?

Having said this, I'm looking forward to see this movie, despite the slight worries. If inspired on the truth and dealing diligently with the truth, this movie has everything to become one of the best racing movies existing. The historical subject as it is and happened alone enables such.

True, but they have raised it to an art form.

Actually, when it comes to "improving" history for the sake of a better story, Shakespeare raised it to an art form. What part of the States was he from again?

As it is directed by the person who did the absolute pissant redo of 3:10 to Yuma, i will not waste money on it.

With two ultra--left dweebs playng lead roles, it is an insult two the people they play.

Credit: By Myron Coureval Fagan - Cohen, Karl F. (2004 [1997]). Forbidden Animation: Censored Cartoons and Blacklisted Animators in America, p. 168. Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland. ISBN 0786403950, Public Domain,

Actually, when it comes to "improving" history for the sake of a better story, Shakespeare raised it to an art form. What part of the States was he from again?

Maybe some slight truth in that, but Shakespeare didn't have the "benefit" of Wikipedia, or even Google, so I'd say he didn't do a bad job on the whole. What historical knowledge he had would have been passed down through several generations, mainly by word of mouth, and as we all know, "history is as told by the victors".

What's Hollywood's present day excuse for repeated deliberate misrepresentation, even on many  occasions, downright lies, and I'm not letting writers and film makers of some other nations escape this accusation. As an answer to the acclaimed recent series  Chernobyl, the Russkis are currently shooting their own version, in which they blame the CIA for the whole thing...

In answer to the question you ended with, Stratford Connecticut, or possibly Stratford Ontario?

Actually, when it comes to "improving" history for the sake of a better story, Shakespeare raised it to an art form. What part of the States was he from again?

Maybe some slight truth in that, but Shakespeare didn't have the "benefit" of Wikipedia, or even Google, so I'd say he didn't do a bad job on the whole. What historical knowledge he had would have been passed down through several generations, mainly by word of mouth, and as we all know, "history is as told by the victors".

 

Most of us didn't have Wikipedia or Google, but like Shakespeare we had books and plays.

A good account of the literary sources used by Shakespeare in his histories and other plays can be found in Gerard Langbaine's "Account of the English Dramatick (sic) Poets" published in 1691.

In answer to the question you ended with, Stratford Connecticut, or possibly Stratford Ontario?

No offence intended to my American friends, but Stratford, Ontario, is emphatically not in "the States."

No offence intended to my American friends, but Stratford, Ontario, is emphatically not in "the States."

Not for lack of trying!

Well, at least up to 1814 or so.

I suspect the major issue with this movie is going to be a theme of "valiant Western underdogs taking on an unfeeling, ignorant Detroit hierarchy," when the truth is considerably more complicated, and frankly, more interesting.  But the visuals thus far look good.  Like many racing movies, there will always be the option to watch it with the sound off.  

As to the height thing, bear in mind that 6' 2" Peter O'Toole played 5' 5" TE Lawrence and got away with it (although that was before the Internet of course).

That shirt is a quite close match for the material of the down home dungaree style outfit that Carroll Shelby wore when he co-drove the Le Mans winning Aston. My knowledge of films and actors is comparable to Doug's, but if he's got trousers to match, maybe that actor would have been a better choice to play Carroll in this unpromising-sounding US film.

Many films would have been better if Central Casting had based their decisions on someone's trousers instead of whatever criteria they did apply.

Interesting video about Carroll Shelby here, skip to 32 minutes to hear the man himself on the GT40 programme

https://www.youtube....h?v=4hNoWuTvhgQ

Steve

Just like motor racing itself, Film Stars aren't what they used to be. .

Reading the casting list tells much of how 'serious' (for TNF standards) the movie will be. No Mike Parkes, no Surtees, no Forghieri (although there's a couple of 'Ferrari Pit Box' and 'Ferrari Pit Leader' characters mentioned). Chris Amon is well dooooown the list, but the Agnellis are out in force, with both Gianni and Umberto!

In essence, I suppose it's AJ Baime's book on a mix of steroids and Saturn V fuel. The book was quite alright for what it was, but this seems to be a different proposition altogether. Ford with a couple of mavericks doing the miracle against the financial might (entirely comparable to Ford of course, probably even superior, who knows!) of Ferrari and Fiat. There'll be no mention of Daytona 67 as the narrative seems to be limited to 1966, but probably after the end there's a couple of sentences against a black screen describing the subsequent nastier bits (Miles's death).

I'm sure the film is going to be a success, though, and if it manages to bring motorsport to the attention of young kids then all the better! God knows the mainstream media's love for motor racing is not exactly high these days.

P.S. Bale as Miles is a good choice and he could easily play Shelby, but Damon (who looks like a schoolboy in the trailer) as Shelby does not make any sense to me.

I agree.They are better these days.

Trigger warning: I bring some news that may be shocking and upsetting to some people.
 
This film will be a movie, not a race. It will be designed to appeal to moviegoers, first and last. Those who would rather be watching races than watching movies will probably dislike this film, because it will serve merely to remind them of what they would rather be doing.
 
Moreover, as a movie, it will be fundamentally a work of fiction, even though it may be loosely based on fact. Unbearable though it might be, this means that some of the actors in the movie may not share the same political beliefs as the characters they portray. We at TNF have long known that the world is a cruel and unfair place, which gives me hope that we will somehow find the strength to soldier on in the face of yet more injustice.
 
But don't worry; it's only a matter of time before Clint Eastwood returns and makes movies great again.

As it is directed by the person who did the absolute pissant redo of 3:10 to Yuma, i will not waste money on it.
With two ultra--left dweebs playng lead roles, it is an insult two the people they play.

What a joy this thread's been.

Re: Casting the role of Shelby - Where, oh where, is Warren Oates when you need him most?

Re: Casting the role of Shelby - Where, oh where, is Warren Oates when you need him most?

Well, dead for the last 37 years unfortunately, but this gives me an opportunity to plug one of my favourite films, Two Lane Blacktop, in which he played one of the two main characters. It's a car film in a way, being mainly about an amateurish two car race across the USA, but it has a little drag racing in it as well. Anyone else remember this one?

I agree though that he'd have made a really good Shelby character. Maybe James Coburn, also long departed, provided he could manage a convincing Shelby drawl..

Edited by kayemod, 26 July 2019 - 08:14.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 25 July 2019 - 22:41.

Totally agree Nigel. Lee Marvin would have been good too...

Well, dead for the last 37 years unfortunately, but this gives me an opportunity to plug one of my favourite films, Two Lane Blacktop, in which he played one of the two main characters. It's a car film in a way, being mainly about an amateurish two car race across the USA, but it has a little drag racing in it as well. Anyone else remember this one?

 

I agree though that He's have made a really good Shelby character.

If we are going to dismiss Damon the actor for being grr....left-wing...grrrr, I believe Dennis WIlson and Charles Manson of Two Lane Blacktop shouldn't be considered noteworthy. However, if the argument is that it's the movie we are discussing and not the actors or producers, then the other argument falls a bit flat.

(sorry for ranting. I can breathe again) 

If we are going to dismiss Damon the actor for being grr....left-wing...grrrr, I believe Dennis WIlson and Charles Manson of Two Lane Blacktop shouldn't be considered noteworthy. However, if the argument is that it's the movie we are discussing and not the actors or producers, then the other argument falls a bit flat.
 
(sorry for ranting. I can breathe again)

Erm, Charles Manson wasn't in Two Lane Blacktop. I believe he was otherwise detained...

Edited by Glengavel, 26 July 2019 - 08:00.

Sorry, I got carried away there..... You are, of course, correct.

In case you hadn't noticed Clint Eastwood has been making great movies for decades....and still is, well into his 80s.

And what a treat the 72nd coming will be, no doubt.

With two ultra--left dweebs playng lead roles, it is an insult two the people they play.

Thnx for reminding us what unpleasant people the originals were.

It's astonishing how much energy is wasted here talking about actors, and how little about the production crew. Actors don't make movies, they merely act. Only bad actors can ruin a movie - anybody suggesting Mr. Damon is not good at his chosen trade?

That said, as a racing fan, I generally try to avoid racing movies. And as a movie fan, I generally avoid racing movies, too. That trailer was a perfect reminder why I won't be watching this movie.

And what a treat the 72nd coming will be, no doubt.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you?

Re: Oates - Coburn - Marvin. Interesting that all three were as much "products of the times", such as they were, as Shelby himself. Returning to actors currently available, someone posted in another forum that Gerard Butler would have been a good choice for the Shelby role. I would agree. As far as Bale, he could probably be convincing playing any role in this movie. I've never seen Damon do anything that was convincing to me. But hope springs eternal. There are plenty of actors, rock stars, etc whose work strikes me as boring, nondescript, or loathsome who have pulled a one-shot absolute masterpiece out of their a** somewhere along the line but that's my own personal take.

What a very world weary take on acting . Me , I hope for Simon Russell Beale as Shelby and Ralph Fiennes as Ken Miles. And  Fiona Shaw and Meryl Streep , in an inspired piece  of gender blind casting.will portray Amon and Gurney respectively.   

Have to admit that the second trailer impressed me more than the first.....

https://www.youtube....DITLmaDmERDqwYw

Did Ken Miles really talk like a Cockney gangster?

Worst case scenario (and quite likely, I’m afraid) is that it will turn out as a bad movie.

Best one is if it will be a good movie, that only old buggers like us will grunt at due to historical inaccuracies, like it was the case with Rush.

I will definitely give it a chance and try to enjoy the good parts of it.

Overall, my biggest fear is that it will be a fierce pro-American propaganda. Admiring the likes of Shelby and Miles, I still have some problems understanding what should be heroic or even likeable in multi-million dollar effort by one of the biggest corporations in the world to beat a small specialized manufacturer like Ferrari, whose annual turnover was, in those days, surely less than what Ford made in a day…

Problem is that, if I didn’t know what actually happened, I’d definitely cheered for the “bad guys” in this movie, not wanting that Ford ever wins - and in general it isn’t a good recipe for enjoying any movie one watches.

If it helps any the normally very critical film critic of the Wall Street Journal enjoyed the movie.....perhaps we should all see it first...then comment?

Except if you believe this review, you wouldn't want to see it at all.

https://www.theguard...-christian-bale

Except if you believe this review, you wouldn't want to see it at all.

https://www.theguard...-christian-bale

That (woke) review was in itself pretty bad too! Since "Reel History" ended in early 2016 there have been no reason to take notice of any film reviews in the Guardian. (IMHO)

The conclusion on the film is probably right, but for the wrong reasons it seems. Sad how that newspaper have declined with steadily increasing pace over the last 10+ years.

Edited by Myhinpaa, 16 September 2019 - 17:02.

Except if you believe this review, you wouldn't want to see it at all.
https://www.theguard...-christian-bale

A friend of mine is a family friend of the Gurneys.  Originally the film maker wanted to change the result of qualifying so Dan didn't get the pole.  The family had a fit saying that real racing fans would object to the fantasy of that, and luckily they reneged.   Actually I think it is a stroke of genius that they have Alex playing his dad in the movie.  He is a spitting image of his dad and even gets to speak a line...

I will see it.  It can't be another "Driven."