Ford versus Ferrari movie (merged)

If it helps any the normally very critical film critic of the Wall Street Journal enjoyed the movie.....perhaps we should all see it first...then comment?

 

Does anybody know when it will be launched in EU?

 

JoBo

Does anybody know when it will be launched in EU?

 

JoBo

The title now seems to be "Le Mans '66" and release date for the UK is November 15th, though we may not be in the EU by then...…….

USA Today says the world premiere "revved up the crowd" and the movie could be in the Oscar running for best picture, best actor and best supporting actor.

 

https://www.usatoday...ves/2303687001/

The title now seems to be "Le Mans '66" and release date for the UK is November 15th, though we may not be in the EU by then...…….

March 29, 2269: The British Prime Minister made his annual pilgrimage to Brussels to "negotiate the deal", a ritual whose origins are long lost to history's most obscure niches, but it still makes for a great tourist attraction - thousands of expats and visitors from the mainland, carrying "Brexit" and "Bremain" banners, respectively, staged the now well known mock fight in the streets until sundown, when the whole party descended upon the local pubs to "drown their sorrows". The Belgian capital reports a record attendance for this year's happening, and estimates a cool million in revenue for the city...

Edited by Michael Ferner, 17 September 2019 - 14:29.

Kinda early to be drinking, Innit? ;-)

Bale prepped for his role at the Bondurant High Performance Driving School.

 

https://www.caranddr...-racing-school/

Loads of interesting background stuff about the making of the film in the current edition of Motor Sport.

Cool to hear it's getting attention.

I was YouTubing albums today while working, and an ad for the film came on between album songs.
(Genesis' Selling England by the Pound, I only have the LP) :-)

I can't wait to see it.

Indeed, looking forward to watching it too. With another big name motor racing film which will be seen beyond racing audiences, we've been well-treated of late.

There is a special preview of the film in Birmingham arranged by Goodyear on Tuesday November 12th and they say that they are putting on a display of cars. Not yet worked out how to get a ticket....  

That sounds interesting, Tony.  Oddly enough I am in Wolverhampton tomorrow, where I believe the Goodyear factory is no more (last bit edited for clarification).

 

Last week I was in Stockholm where I was surprised to see the film advertised in a number of places from landing at Arlanda Airport onwards.  Looking forward to it and hope it does Ken Miles justice.

Edited by MCS, 06 November 2019 - 22:44.

Indeed, looking forward to watching it too. With another big name motor racing film which will be seen beyond racing audiences, we've been well-treated of late.

We should all take a bow in honor of "Driven" starting this wave of great motor racing films.

^^^ (Account Hack) ^^^

Cool to hear it's getting attention.

I was YouTubing albums today while working, and an ad for the film came on between album songs.
(Genesis' Selling England by the Pound, I only have the LP) :-)

I can't wait to see it.

 

 

Perhaps you should do what I've done....bring a spare turntable to the office, along with a spare copy of Selling England

 

I'm intending to see the film on Tuesday with a friend who's from Texas and who can trace her family back to Fernand Charron...

Oddly enough I am in Wolverhampton tomorrow, where I believe the Goodyear factory is no more (last bit edited for clarification).

This is true; it's been demolished. Sad for those of us who were brought up in the town. The annual Goodyear factory fire was the nearest thing we had to a cultural event.

Perhaps you should do what I've done....bring a spare turntable to the office, along with a spare copy of Selling England

Splendid idea, except my office is a VW bus. :-)

Can't say where this leaves us re accuracy, but if Anthony Lane at the The New Yorker likes it, it appears to work as a movie.

 

https://www.newyorke...-ford-v-ferrari

Can't say where this leaves us re accuracy, but if Anthony Lane at the The New Yorker likes it, it appears to work as a movie.

 

https://www.newyorke...-ford-v-ferrari

We'll see next week, but signs are we might finally have a racing movie worth taking a non-car friend to. I plan to take my 6-year-old who pretends to be a Ford GT when he's riding his bike. I just hope he can make it through 150 minutes plus previews without wanting to leave (of course, my middle-aged self will need multiple bathroom breaks  )

Can't say where this leaves us re accuracy, but if Anthony Lane at the The New Yorker likes it, it appears to work as a movie.

 

https://www.newyorke...-ford-v-ferrari

Well, it is at least a tick in the box against "Is this a well made film?" which is a good start.

 

We have had good motor racing films that weren't very good movies, and vice versa, and of course we had 'Drivel' which was a rotten motor racing film AND a rotten movie.  

Well, it is at least a tick in the box against "Is this a well made film?" which is a good start.

 

We have had good motor racing films that weren't very good movies, and vice versa, and of course we had 'Drivel' which was a rotten motor racing film AND a rotten movie.  

 

If this can displace "Days of Thunder" as the racing movie the general public thinks of, that would be awesome. Fortunately, "Days" is getting too far in the past for most people to know anything about it.

I would think Rush or the Senna movie though both with their faults are far better than Top Gun i cars which is what DoT was!

 

Will look forward to this, but maybe not at the cinema!!  

Skyped my brother in Toronto last night, he and his son had just seen the film. "Don't bother" was his advice. Ferrari is hardly mentioned, Eric Broadly and the British contribution weren't referenced, and Ken Miles was heard to yell "Yee Har" while on opposite lock...

Well, it is at least a tick in the box against "Is this a well made film?" which is a good start.
 
We have had good motor racing films that weren't very good movies, and vice versa, and of course we had 'Drivel' which was a rotten motor racing film AND a rotten movie.

I have to say, "Drivel" is now in my vocabulary. Tragic movie!

I'm very prepared to be disappointed by this, but I've just booked tickets for next Friday evening at the Leicester Square Odeon. At the very least, it'll be a nice evening out for myself and the Wife.......

There is a bunch of car people going to a screening next week, may be some good old fashioned audience feedback if Blogsworth' report proves accurate … .  I hope not though.

It's a movie, it's Hollywood, it's the 21st Century.......my expectations are low......

I'm very prepared to be disappointed by this, but I've just booked tickets for next Friday evening at the Leicester Square Odeon. At the very least, it'll be a nice evening out for myself and the Wife.......

 

The last time I was there it was a BRSCC jaunt to see Grand Prix. We were lucky enough to be sitting at the focal point of the curved screen and the effect was quite dizzying during the cornering sequences, almost 3D in effect.

My local cinema is showing it next Friday. The 10:30 showing is £5.50 so I thought it was worth a punt. It will be interesting to compare the film with my memories of actually being at Le Mans '66 as a ten year old.

Edited by Cirrus, 10 November 2019 - 17:47.

Rush was a decent film?
This one doesn’t look to good especially from a racing history perspective!
Can’t see the connection between an actors politics and acting ability.
Anyway a US left winger is a Brit conservative.
I’ll trot along next Monday with my senior citizen discount just to see what they have made of it.
The trailer is awful
I was at Le Mans in 66 as a photographer for Sporting Motorist
Highlight the Renault resturant and bar at Mulsanne hirpin,brilliant.

Does anybody know when it will be launched in EU?

 

JoBo

 

France on 13th November, most other countries the following day.

What is or isn't a decent racing movie seems to depend on our individual experience and expectations. When I saw "Grand Prix" back in the winter of 1967/68 I knew nothing about racing and I was blown away. I still watch it today whenever I want to remember what racing was like back when I first got the bug. But when I was racing Formula Ford back in the early 80's I shared a garage with three brothers who had been racing since the 60's. They described how eagerly they had awaited its release, only to be hugely disappoint when they saw it. They thought it was crap. Judging from what I've read online, opinions vary widely.

 

I haven't heard much in the way of criticism of "Le Mans". In some ways I think it is better than "Grand Prix" but I find myself re-watching the Frankenheimer film more often. My younger brother and I argue (amicably) about which is better almost whenever we get together. (He prefers "Le Mans" and rejects my assertion that some of the in-car shots were filmed at noticeably less than race speed.)

 

I was very disappointed by "Rush" due to the unrealistic staged race scenes and the complete lack of effort to replicate the venues where those scenes occurred. (From the trailers for "Ford v Ferrari", it appears much more effort has been made in this regard.) But I was blown away by the performances of Hemsworth and Bruhl as Hunt and Lauda. I don't think I have ever seen as accurate a biographical depiction (appearance, voice, mannerisms, etc) in any film of any genre. They may have been other worthy examples but my standard has always been George C. Scott in "Patton". (He had the appearance and mannerisms down pat but wouldn't try to replicate Patton's higher pitched nasal tone.)

 

I was also tickled by the thought that Hollywood would make a movie about a story I had followed so closely when it actually happened. (I was at Mosport for the '76 GP which was Lauda's second race back after the crash and on this and other occasions was within feet of the two drivers.) I didn't think anyone outside of race fans really cared. Yes, the story was messed with as Hollywood does but it could have been a lot worse.

 

There are a lot of terrible or just mediocre racing movies out there. ("Winning", "The Green Helmet", "The Racers", "The Young Racers" and "Bobby Deerfield" to name a few.) But even these usually have some interesting racing scenes that you can fast forward to to avoid the rest of the agony. I'm not sure that "Days of Thunder" fits that category and I have never seen, nor will I ever see the Stallone film.

 

From the trailers for "Ford v Ferrari" I am already disappointed by the casting of Matt Damon as Carroll Shelby. Matt is one of my favourite actors but he is not Carroll Shelby. Christian Bale seems better as Ken Miles but then I haven't seen much video of the real Ken to know. And it seems the story has been given the usual Hollywood treatment. But I am still looking forward to seeing it this Friday when it comes to town.

 

Don't anyone tell me how it ends!

Edited by R.W. Mackenzie, 11 November 2019 - 00:32.

Your comments about Rush pretty much mirror mine.

My first GP was the Glen in '76 so any shortcomings in the film become inconsequential in light of that -- and being a racing film to begin with. So in short, we have a DVD and love watching it regardless.

https://www.racefans...rrari-reviewed/

 

 

So having gone to see Le Mans ’66, while knowing it was in fact Ford v Ferrari, what I ended up watching was Ford v Ford. That, plus the under-cooked racing action, made it somewhat of a disappointment, though one with plenty of visual treats plus the occasional laugh for motor racing fans.

The last time I was there it was a BRSCC jaunt to see Grand Prix. We were lucky enough to be sitting at the focal point of the curved screen and the effect was quite dizzying during the cornering sequences, almost 3D in effect.

That was the Casino Cinerama Theatre, not the Odeon Leicester Square! This new film is in bog standard digital projection, not 70mm Cinerama. The Casino Cinerama has for decades now been operating as a live theatre under its original name of the Prince Edward Theatre

Ran across this 26-minute documentary on YouTube about the finish of the race. Joe Macura, "the father of the 427" has a great quote at the end.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=fhiWRTDZ7-E

Edited by 427MkIV, 12 November 2019 - 20:06.

I have now seen two different trailers - both look undeniably mad.  So on that basis alone I will probably go along this weekend.  Enough said there.

 

However, in the meantime, I notice another film "The 24 Hour War" on Amazon, which I have apparently watched (more likely viewed).

 

Strange days.

Another film on the '66 race, "This Time Tomorrow":

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=7rrVOVuwPV0

I saw it yesterday and actually quite liked it, they really managed to bring the pieces together, it really works as a movie.

Christian Bale is great as Miles, while Damon is making the most from too shallowly written role of Shelby, lacking any info on his private life and barely touching his entrepreneurial side. Tracy Letts is great as HFII, although sometimes too grotesque.

Racing scenes are generally good, giving nice impression of speed. There are crashes but they are not treated as the highlights, no slow motions and similar stuff…

As for inaccuracies, some of them I can swallow, some can’t. I can accept Damon as Shelby, even if there is no physical resemblance. I can accept that no other driver is shown as equally good as Miles, or Better, although from historical point of view we know how much of an insult for some of them it is. I’m aware that no in-car race footage can be made without driver shifting a gear, even if it means that cars should have been fitted with 7-8 speed manuals back then to justify some of such scenes… No mention of Broadly, Lola, Wyer… well, you can’t fit them all into a movie, it is not a documentary.

I can accept even the prominent showing of Enzo Ferrari on pit wall in Le Mans, we all know that he hasn’t been there - it was perhaps easier than going into the details of explanation. Enzo is not such a villain as I expected that he would be made. But I did hate to see a hall full of P4s in Maranello during initial early ‘60’s negotiations - it really looked to me as just cutting the filming costs by using same cars for the events several years apart, even if they did have some 250 GTO replicas around in racing scenes. Also, during Iacocca’s initial presentation of power and racing program he uses scenes from Goldfinger and refers to James Bond… Such details are simply irritating.

But generally I think that movie is really good and certainly suitable for watching with non-racing related friends… just with leaving most of bitter comments for yourself.

I too saw it yesterday, in a theatre of car club types.  A documentary it is not, but as a 'hollywood' movie, it was ok.  I thought the racing was too artificial, it did nothing for me.  It failed to elicit (in me at least) any appreciation of what an endurance race is all about - given the focus is on that race, there was no real attempt to explain why it was so important.  I heard a few mutterings during the screening, but no outright scoffing.

 

I will not be buying the dvd.  But I would not actively discourage anyone from seeing it as long as all they expected was a reasonable night out at the movies.

Ran across this 26-minute documentary on YouTube about the finish of the race. Joe Macura, "the father of the 427" has a great quote at the end.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=fhiWRTDZ7-E

Thank you! That is fantastic. Inaccurate re-enactments don't really interest me, harmless as they might be, but a documentary like that is gold dust.

Thank you! That is fantastic. Inaccurate re-enactments don't really interest me, harmless as they might be, but a documentary like that is gold dust.

 

Gotta agree, solid gold! 

I will see it after the crowds die down a bit.   I have followed the coverage of the movie, and the details that have come out.   I have no illusions about how accurately history is portrayed.  In a large sense, the producers do have the essence of the story correct: Ego writes a check that is ultimately covered.  There are 2 intertwined stories of upstarts taking on the establishment:  Ford trying to dethrone Ferrari, and a bunch of California Hot Roders taking on the computer whiz kids in Detroit.   In both cases, the facts and movie seem to align.   HFII felt insulted by Ferrari, then committed to defeating him where it mattered most- at Le Mans.   The initial GT40 effort was led by Ford AVS, headquarted in Great Britain, and the resulting car showed promise, but failed to deliver results.  In late 1964, Ford brought in Shelby and the Hot Roders, who were successful in the US, and who turn around the GT40 program in a matter of months.   In 1965, a Shelby American GT40 won at Daytona, and likely would have won Sebring had the weather cooperated.   Then Ford intervened (again) and demanded that all should focus on the 427 engined GT40.  By that time the 289 engine was a proven commodity, and was coupled to a transmission that could last 24 hrs.   But we know how Le Mans 1965 ended.   Had Ford instead concentrated on the 289 instead of the 427, it is likely they would have won in 1965, or a year earlier than they did.   Ego again, and from what I know of the movie so far, the main characters are driven by their Egos.   So in that sense it is accurate.

Equally accurately , Enzo Ferrari was hugely insulted by by Ford , whose lawyers (on whose instructions ? ) , at the last ,minute  introduced  cost capping provisions on racing post merger .   , 

Just saw there's articles in the DT and The Sun about the film, both focusing on Ken Miles.

 

I like the quote in the introduction to the DT article, : a 'sarcastic bastard who would race his grandmother to the breakfast table'

The DT article is as most behind a paywall, but usually the comments are better than the article itself these days. (But only 6, so far)

 

https://www.telegrap...d-beat-ferrari/

 

https://www.thesun.c...brit-ken-miles/

 

Added, the DM article. Some good photographs though.

 

https://www.dailymai...ce-victory.html

Edited by Myhinpaa, 15 November 2019 - 10:19.

There is also a longer article and 32 Getty photographs in the Daily Mail on line today. I know a lot of you get sniffy about the Mail but their on line version often has some excellent photo archives of interesting topics, which works for me. One photo is captioned with a repeat of the previous one. It shows Shelby in the 59 Aston with Jack Fairman looking on.

Regarding the accuracy of the film, whilst I would like it to be a true story as close as possible, the true stories would not often make films worth the cost, so I do not really give a shove. You have and make a choice whether to watch it. It is a commercial venture, like magazines, not an archive dissertation. If nothing else, it may mark Ken Miles down in history for the hero he was.
If race stuff is put out to a wider market perhaps we might generate interest in a new generation of enthusiasts for our sport, and especialy for the history of it across all levels.
That is one reason why I support Goodwood so strongly, - stands back awaiting brickbats- ... whatever its faults. It gets new people through the gates and perhaps some might go on to become historians and experts in the future.
Remember one thing, whatever we know about our sport now, we all started with what I call an empty knowledge box which we chose to fill with whatever aspect of our sport appeals most, usually via a sifting process. We need people for the future who know it in depth across the piece.
Otherwise we are a dying breed . I thought that was the purpose of this Forum.
Roger Lund
Exits left carrying soapbox.

Just back from the cinema (shared with a dozen or so other filmgoers) at a 10:30 showing of Le Mans '66. I enjoyed it. I was worried they wouldn't give Ken Miles a Brummie accent but Christian Bale did a great job. OK - there are lots of minor historical innacuracies and too much side by side racing and throttle pedals being floored but it appears to have had a decent budget and tells a story that willl apppeal to a non-racing audience.

 

It's a long film (make sure you visit the loo first) but, in my opinion, worth seeing and much better than Rush.

There is also a longer article and 32 Getty photographs in the Daily Mail on line today. I know a lot of you get sniffy about the Mail but their on line version often has some excellent photo archives of interesting topics, which works for me. One photo is captioned with a repeat of the previous one. It shows Shelby in the 59 Aston with Jack Fairman looking on.

Regarding the accuracy of the film, whilst I would like it to be a true story as close as possible, the true stories would not often make films worth the cost, so I do not really give a shove. You have and make a choice whether to watch it. It is a commercial venture, like magazines, not an archive dissertation. If nothing else, it may mark Ken Miles down in history for the hero he was.
If race stuff is put out to a wider market perhaps we might generate interest in a new generation of enthusiasts for our sport, and especialy for the history of it across all levels.
That is one reason why I support Goodwood so strongly, - stands back awaiting brickbats- ... whatever its faults. It gets new people through the gates and perhaps some might go on to become historians and experts in the future.
Remember one thing, whatever we know about our sport now, we all started with what I call an empty knowledge box which we chose to fill with whatever aspect of our sport appeals most, usually via a sifting process. We need people for the future who know it in depth across the piece.
Otherwise we are a dying breed . I thought that was the purpose of this Forum.
Roger Lund
Exits left carrying soapbox.

 

Roger,

 

Did the DM reporter reference Preston Lerner by any chance?

 

Don

Agree with Roger regarding Daily Mail photos - the same applies for other sports, some in particular i.e. football and cricket.

 

In the meantime I read through an interesting review in the Independent late yesterday evening - not sure if it's still there as I have just walked in, but expect it to be so.  "Hollow ending" was the bit I remember.

 

Anyway, seeing it tomorrow . . .

It’s a great movie that shows how wonderful race cars (and road cars) were in the 1960s. I hope it is successful so that the wider public gains an interest in the era and realises there are other options than F1 and nascar. It is not a documentary obviously but does a good job at being entertaining with some realism. Loved watching it with my son and the discussion after, and I hope a lot of enthusiasts enjoy time spent with their loved ones rather than alone in the shed or on the internet.

James

More interesting footage of actual 1966 Le Mans. This was shot by amateur photographer Marcellus Chiles who presented his footage to Ford in 2015. Video  courtesy of Motorsport.com

 

 

https://www.motorspo...d-1966/4596085/

Roger,

 

Did the DM reporter reference Preston Lerner by any chance?

 

Don

By any chance, yes. 

 

You might like to exercise your mouse clicking finger here... https://www.dailymai...ce-victory.html