Albon and Hamilton collision Brazil 2019

Albon gets taken out, and waits to rejoin the race safely, (losing 10+ places) , shame there isn't a way to repay him.

If we could trust the stewards to be fair and consistant (yeah fat chance!) I'd love to see some kind of re3dress to give places back to 'wronged drivers'

Lewis instantly admitted fault and apologised so I reckon it's a pretty easy discussion. 

probably mostly lewis's fault, but albon did do that late apex aproach not realizing lewis was there (blind spot)

Lewis instantly admitted fault and apologised so I reckon it's a pretty easy discussion. 

Well yes and no.

Yes - Lewis misjudged the situation and attempted an overtake that wasn't really on without a bit of cooperating from Alex vacating the racing line and

No - **** happens in racing when people try to overtake. As Albon himself said "I'm a bit upset [but] it's racing..........I saw him in my mirror and I didn't defend it." 

In other words they are both partially to blame - just Lewis is a little more to blame.

If you want to watch a weekly parade of F1 cars fair enough just slap a 5 sec (or larger) penalty on anyone every time there is any sort of incident but don't expect that it won't kill motor racing because it will.

Scamps?

as Lewis said, it was his mistake, can't argue with that.

you do wonder if he'd have got a penalty had he been driving a red car rather than a silver one though, given previous decisions this season.

Racing incident. Albon left the door open, Lewis was a tad ambitious.

 I'd love to see some kind of re3dress to give places back to 'wronged drivers'

It's professional sport mate. Not school sports day. 

Hamilton at fault and a shame for Albon.

I think it looked kind of worse than it was because Hamilton tried to back out of it. Had he gone for it fully he’d have been close to alongside. But still his fault.

Slightly confused by the penalty (and the one for Ricciardo). Thought both penalties were fair, but both were out of whack with recent stewarding, which has let incidents like these go.

The way this is written, it implies Hamilton forced their hands. I confess, I thought you kind of had to go to the stewards, didn't know you could just submit a guilty as charged in absentia.

Mercedes sporting director Ron Meadows passed on the message that his driver had admitted he was at fault and in effect obliged the stewards to award a five-second penalty, as race director Michael Masi explained.

 

"They were going to do a post race investigation," said Masi. "So they did summon both drivers. But the team admitted to the breach.

"They came down and said 'You don't need to summons us. Lewis has admitted it', apparently from what Ron said, and that was it.

"There was an investigation, but you investigate, and you've got the team that comes down and says, 'We made a mistake,' it becomes a very simple investigation to the other side!"

 

https://www.autospor...-over-collision

Yeah, I'm quite sure that had they done that normally (Albon and Hamilton turning up to the stewards office) he would have got away with this, since Albon wasnt even blaming him either based on the Interviews. And that's usually enough for these sort of incidents to get away with.

Edited by Marklar, 18 November 2019 - 09:19.

The way this is written, it implies Hamilton forced their hands. I confess, I thought you kind of had to go to the stewards, didn't know you could just submit a guilty as charged in absentia.


https://www.autospor...-over-collision

The way this is written, it implies Hamilton forced their hands. I confess, I thought you kind of had to go to the stewards, didn't know you could just submit a guilty as charged in absentia.
 
 
https://www.autospor...-over-collision

I assume they were going to penalise him unless he had something compelling to say in his defence so his admittance of fault simply removed the potential of them changing their minds.

Otherwise something is very wrong because the driver can’t judge.
 

Agree 100%...

Still in his first season, he will learn there’s a time to be defensive - like with a podium less than two laps away. It was similar in a different type of corner to Ric on Mag, Lewis needed to be more patient as second would have been his within a lap. A lot of sympathy for the rookie from Ham.

In the paddock pass episode Will Buxton said the driver were summoned to the stewards but I thought I heard Lewis whisper to Max that he had received the 5 sec penalty during the post race press conference?

He also said it out loud a little bit later in the same PC. 

I assume they were going to penalise him unless he had something compelling to say in his defence so his admittance of fault simply removed the potential of them changing their minds.

Otherwise something is very wrong because the driver can’t judge.

Still feels harsh to me given he didn’t come across the track at all.

Nah

The drivers, or rather the victim (Albon in this case), can influence it a lot. If they say that it was fine, then there is a high chance that they let it go.

I'm pretty sure that's why nothing happened on the Ferrari incident, too.

Edited by Marklar, 18 November 2019 - 09:30.

Nah

The drivers, or rather the victim (Albon in this case), can influence it a lot. If they say that it was fine, then there is a high chance that they let it go.

I'm pretty sure that's why nothing happened on the Ferrari incident, too.

I would say this is a highly likely possible outcome given Albon's willingness post race to examine what he could have done better and because of their own (silly and poorly thought through 'let 'em race!!! thing). So I guess I'm glad Hamilton held his hands up.

Stewards decide based on the merits of the case and not based on what Albon says to the media. It is like the commentators getting carried away with Max's statement to the press after Mexican pole. Punting a driver off who was clearly ahead and taking the normal racing line is a slam dunk penalty.  As Hamilton correctly said when you are coming from so far behind [ watch Hamilton's onbaord]  it is your responsibility to avoid contact. It is as simple as that.

Edited by Quickshifter, 18 November 2019 - 09:48.

Stewards decide based on the merits of the case and not based on what Albon says to the media. It is like the commentators getting carried away with Max's statement to the press after Mexican pole. Punting a driver off who was clearly ahead and taking the normal racing line is a slam dunk penalty.  As Hamilton correctly said when you are coming from so far behind [ watch Hamilton's onbaord]  it is your responsibility to avoid contact. It is as simple as that.

Seems inconsistent that Hamilton's words to the media are given weight by you but Albon's are to be ignored.

Seems inconsistent that Hamilton's words to the media are given weight by you but Albon's are to be ignored.

It may have credence in my opinion but Stewards decide what is correct which is based on facts/evidence/footage. All i said was that i agree with Lewis's opinion but Stewards may beg to differ if they think otherwise. Even if Lewis had contested the case i don't think the outcome would have been different.

Edited by Quickshifter, 18 November 2019 - 09:56.

Given hat Hamilton admitted it was his fault and apologised, this thread is just an invitation to troll.

Just saw that Lewis immediately went to apologise to Albon after getting out of his car. Really classy and love his approach to always admit his error when it's obvious. True gentleman. 

His fans can learn a lot from his actions rather than being defensive for no reasons. 

Do you even lift a book bro ?
Jp

Sounds like one of those Dickensian words..Like Urchin!...

And yeah, I can just about lift a comic!

"Do you even lift bro?" - Origin Unknown

Edited by Fatgadget, 18 November 2019 - 17:53.

If you've ever driven Interlagos in a proper sim you know on these two right hand corners in the midfield you don't really drive to the apex, partly because of the banking. I don't think he left the door wide open as much as he was just trying to get the best possible line through the corner, not expecting a late lunge from Hamilton, who was too far behind to get a move done.

If you've ever driven Interlagos in a proper sim you know on these two right hand corners in the midfield you don't really drive to the apex, partly because of the banking. I don't think he left the door wide open as much as he was just trying to get the best possible line through the corner, not expecting a late lunge from Hamilton, who was too far behind to get a move done.

Well I do...because I have a bad habit of punting computer opponents off  It ain't a dive bomb till you make contact after all

as Lewis said, it was his mistake, can't argue with that.

 

you do wonder if he'd have got a penalty had he been driving a red car rather than a silver one though, given previous decisions this season.

You do wonder if he'd admit it was his mistake had he'd still been fighting for the championship.

Stewards quote 'Albon was on the normal racing line"   slam dunk kills all the bs about the door being wide open.   

FWIW I think Lewis was too optimistic in his move and misjudged it. But why do so many people get confused by what the term “leaving the door wide open” actually means?

OF COURSE it doesn’t mean the driver goes off the racing line to let the driver behind in. It simply means that he doesn’t cover the inside in a defensive manner. That is, he stays on the racing line instead of covering the inside. A driver can be both on the normal racing line and leave the door wide open.

And of course if the corner is a tight right hander, the racing line is going to begin at the outer left edge of the track and sweep in towards the apex.

Anyway while I previously thought that Albon left the door wide open, I’ve changed my mind on that somewhat because the onboard from Lewis makes his move look a bit too optimistic. So from Albon’s perspective, he didn’t leave the door wide open because there was never a move there that needed covering off.

The perfect outcome for the weekend would have been for Hamilton to admit "guilt", the stewards to spend 2 hours deliberating, and then to penalise Albon (he clearly turned into an occupied apex) and Max (just because!).

You do wonder if he'd admit it was his mistake had he'd still been fighting for the championship.

 

He never would have attempted the move if it was not sealed.

You do wonder if he'd admit it was his mistake had he'd still been fighting for the championship.

Edited by Marklar, 18 November 2019 - 20:29.

He pretty much always admits his mistakes. He also did so in Spielberg vs Kimi

What I'm however certain about is that if the championship was still on he certainly would have turned up to the stewards to at least try to prevent the penalty (or at least Mercedes would have forced it)

Moreover, unlikely such incident would have happened if the championship was still on.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 18 November 2019 - 21:49.

Albon wasn't wise leaving such a big gap, Hamilton was taking a risk knowing that the door would likely close. Not really a big Hamilton fan by any stretch, but I'd have said racing incident, however Hamilton basically admitting guilt meant a penalty was more likely than not.

Sounds like one of those Dickensian words..Like Urchin!...

And yeah, I can just about lift a comic!

"Do you even lift bro?" - Origin Unknown

Edited by jonpollak, 19 November 2019 - 04:15.

I was 50/50 on neutral and lewis fault, I ended up voting lewis, I think lewis ended up with the mistake due to the suicidal pit stop and trying to make amends.  Sadly it wrecked albon's race.

Moreover, unlikely such incident would have happened if the championship was still on.

Unless he needed to overtake Albon to secure said championship.

Hamilton is really calculated in his post-race communication, so openly taking all blame for this incident is him being a gentleman but also him investing in next season(s).

Bit offtopic, but I thought it was funny when Hamilton told Max to mention Honda's engine when a Japanese? journalist asked him what helped him secure the win. Especially since the question was clearly pointing in that direction, but Max didn't realise it and gave his standard press "it was a team effort" answer. 

Few drivers would have taken the blame for this incident.Hamilton is driving so great these days, that he hardly makes such mistakes, but it's good to see that when he does he can accept it and raise his hand, instead of making excuses like most of the others. 

Edited by Ramon69, 22 November 2019 - 11:54.

The only reason it looks like the "door was open" is because Lewis was so far behind that no reasonable move could be made.