The future of Qatar GP

As you may or may not know, in addition to this year's Qatar GP the country signed a 10-year deal to host a race from 2023 onwards but the circuit where the race will take place isn't specified. A street circuit in Doha is widely assumed to be the likely long-term solution but return to Losail, where we saw F1 race for the first time a few days ago, isn't out of the question yet.

Now that we saw what the permanent circuit has to offer, what do you think about the future of this Grand Prix? Was Losail, despite mostly pessimistic predictions, good enough to become more than just a one-off? Or would you prefer something different, however it might look?

I’d prefer them to keep going to Losail for the fairly simple (simplistic?) reason that I generally prefer purpose built tracks to street circuits. Obviously there are some real duds of purpose built tracks too, but still. Was disappointed to hear in the race thread that we probably won’t be seeing this for F1 in the medium to long term.

I think Losail worked really well, and even had a decent crowd. No need to have another street race when there's a suitable purpose built track.

As you may or may not know, in addition to this year's Qatar GP the country signed a 10-year deal to host a race from 2023 onwards but the circuit where the race will take place isn't specified. A street circuit in Doha is widely assumed to be the likely long-term solution but return to Losail, where we saw F1 race for the first time a few days ago, isn't out of the question yet.

 

Now that we saw what the permanent circuit has to offer, what do you think about the future of this Grand Prix? Was Losail, despite mostly pessimistic predictions, good enough to become more than just a one-off? Or would you prefer something different, however it might look?

I’d say with Singapore, Melbourne, Montreal, Baku, Jeddah, Miami and Monaco we have enough (semi) street circuits on the calendar. So Losail for me please. It also looked like a real cool track to drive and racing wasn’t that bad. 

The F1 cars looked better than I expected around Losail, and there also seemed to be a bit more racing that expected too, so not against them going back there.  And also best that they don't overload the championship with street track desert night races.

Edited by P123, 24 November 2021 - 18:58.

Have we seen the new street circuit? If not then there's not much point in the poll.

Have we seen the new street circuit? If not then there's not much point in the poll.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Have we seen the new street circuit? If not then there's not much point in the poll.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Losail was fine. We don't need yet another street circuit on the calendar, especially as we have the new Saudi GP.

The drivers seemed to enjoy themselves at Losail, and it seems to be a circuit where they can make a meaningful performance difference, certainly more so than at Barcelona or Shanghai. It felt more like a flat Istanbul Park than a clone of Sakhir. Plus, everything at Losail feels in proportion - no enormous straight or unnecessarily banked corner just for bragging rights. I’d keep it.

Edited by wj_gibson, 24 November 2021 - 21:21.

A few mentions of "good racing" in this thread but there's one observation I have.

It's been typical for the last few years to have pretty good racing on circuits where everybody expected it to be bad and it makes me think the ever growing problem of dirty air and increasing DRS effect to counter it has somewhat switched the balance of what's needed to produce good racing for F1 cars. Circuits that used to be difficult for overtaking are now OK, because they often hit that sweet spot of DRS making two cars to come together at the right point to have some meaningful battles instead of overtakings done halfway through the main straight. But I feel this balance is pretty fragile.

The 2022 cars might switch that balance again in a different direction and I would be very catious about predicting what circuits will prove to be entertaining in the future. I'm not saying towards which direction it will change but it's pretty likely there will be some change with such a different generation of cars.

Qatar only wants an F1 race so it can attract tourists to the country, so I guess it will be held on a street circuit in Doha. It doesn't matter what drivers or fans prefer.

By the way, did you hear about the two Norwegian journalists who were arrested in Qatar the other day? https://www.nrk.no/u...ager-1.15744167 https://www.theguard...ld-cup-arrested

By the way, did you hear about the two Norwegian journalists who were arrested in Qatar the other day? https://www.nrk.no/u...ager-1.15744167 https://www.theguard...ld-cup-arrested

Posted about it in the Qatar race thread.

FIFA haven't dared to give any critic to Qatar for it. Amazing, they got home without any electronic equipment which is still in Qatar, they never got charged with anything though. But they got money, which is everything.

Have not seen any of the street layout. So hard to say. But Losail was a good one.

Losail was fine I thought, good racing.

I would have liked the option of 'None of the above'. 

I thought it raced better than I expected, but thinking back, was there any passes NOT at T1/DRS straight?

Ocon got his wheels back ahead of Perez into 3, but that was using ALL his battery. 

Alonso on Gasly, but it was lap 1, it's always different

I'm uneasy about racing in Qatar, but Losail worked better than I expected. It was an entertaining race so from a point of view purely looking at the track....I would say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Street circuits can bring something different and new to F1 and there was a time when we had too few, but they do need to have a USP. 

I thought it raced better than I expected, but thinking back, was there any passes NOT at T1/DRS straight?

Ocon got his wheels back ahead of Perez into 3, but that was using ALL his battery.

This is what Joe Saward says about the new circuit:

We hear that the plans are focussed on the West Bay district, which is known as the diplomatic district around the City Center Mall and the Exhibition and Convention Centre. It will no doubt include sections of the Corniche which runs along the waterfront, adding a little Monaco spice to the venue. The aim is for the track to be very high speed, so that it will produce good racing, as has been seen in Baku in recent years, with the likelihood of the race happening at night, thus adding a little bit of Singapore magic to the mix.

It is basically going to be Jeddah Mk 2 .

This is what Joe Saward says about the new circuit:

 

 

 

 

It is basically going to be Jeddah Mk 2 .

Maybe something like this, anti-clockwise

With a chicane or two and little detours if necessary.

Edited by noikeee, 25 November 2021 - 12:29.

I really do not understand FOM's obsession with street circuits, it seems that every new or potential track nowadays is one, and more often than not they are Valencia clones. We need a range of circuits that hopefully can bring something unique, I love that we have a season that includes Silverstone, Spa and Singapore, F1 racing in the fields, the trees and the buildings

I really do not understand FOM's obsession with street circuits

Is it really FOM's obsession, though?

I think they're just going anywhere where there are hosts ready to pay the hosting fee- and what type of circuit- as long as it meets the Grade One circuit criteria- they decide to provide- I don't think FOM is that obsessed with.
 

I really do not understand FOM's obsession with street circuits, it seems that every new or potential track nowadays is one, and more often than not they are Valencia clones. We need a range of circuits that hopefully can bring something unique, I love that we have a season that includes Silverstone, Spa and Singapore, F1 racing in the fields, the trees and the buildings

If you're paying tens of millions of dollars to promote your city and increase tourism, a race in the middle of nowhere (Losail) isn't exactly going to encourage people to visit.

I really do not understand FOM's obsession with street circuits, it seems that every new or potential track nowadays is one, and more often than not they are Valencia clones. We need a range of circuits that hopefully can bring something unique, I love that we have a season that includes Silverstone, Spa and Singapore, F1 racing in the fields, the trees and the buildings

It's not that bad when you think about it though; if you look at the 2022 calendar: 

PERMANENT CIRCUITS (CLASSIC)

Imola, Barcelona, Silverstone, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Spa, Zandvoort, Monza, Suzuka, Mexico City, Interlagos

PERMANENT CIRCUITS (MODERN)

Bahrain, Paul Ricard, Sochi, Austin, Abu Dhabi

TEMPORARY PARK CIRCUITS

Melbourne, Miami, Montreal, 

TEMPORARY STREET CIRCUITS

Jeddah, Monaco, Baku, Singapore, 

So actually only 4 of the 23 races are bona fide street circuits, and if you include the park circuits then that is still less than a third. 

I think overall there is a good balance at the moment. 

But yes I agree, if we get to 50% of the calendar being temporary tracks in the future, then that is probably too much. I don't mind too much if it's modern circuits dropping out for them though (I really don't miss Shanghai at the moment, for example) - but if we lose the likes of Interlagos or Spa for these tracks, it would be sad indeed. 

Edited by JimmyClark, 25 November 2021 - 13:53.

OK in all honesty, we dont know how is the street circuit going to look like but overall increased inclusion of street circuits goes against what F1 is trying to achieve - better racing and overtaking. So I'd rather keep Losail which doesnt appear as glamorous and sounds like copy of Bahrain but offered good racing. Even Bahrain had some great races lately.

People might use Azerbaijan as example but I think the racing events in some races held there have contributed to a good race rather than circuit itself.

I dont dislike street circuits, but I just wouldnt want to see more than 2,3 in a season.

OK in all honesty, we dont know how is the street circuit going to look like but overall increased inclusion of street circuits goes against what F1 is trying to achieve - better racing and overtaking. So I'd rather keep Losail which doesnt appear as glamorous and sounds like copy of Bahrain but offered good racing. Even Bahrain had some great races lately.

People might use Azerbaijan as example but I think the racing events in some races held there have contributed to a good race rather than circuit itself.

 

I dont dislike street circuits, but I just wouldnt want to see more than 2,3 in a season.

F1's aim is to bring the sport to the people, and street races are doing just that. And they are clearly designing them with racing in mind - we can't say much about Jeddah until we see a race there, but we know Baku is pretty good for racing down the main straight, and Vietnam probably would have had some insane overtaking spots had it happened. And you have a point that the events in Baku make the races but, but street circuit generally do have more jeopardy which does increase the likelihood of such events. So I think the days of making a street circuit like Singapore are over. 

As fans, we are delighted to see Imola back on the claendar, for example, but it does kind of go against 'racing and overtaking'. But I get so much more satisfaction out of watching a standard dry Imola race than a Bahrain overtaking fest.  

There was a time back in the day when all circuits were based on public roads and streets... 

It's not that bad when you think about it though; if you look at the 2022 calendar: 

 

PERMANENT CIRCUITS (CLASSIC)

Imola, Barcelona, Silverstone, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Spa, Zandvoort, Monza, Suzuka, Mexico City, Interlagos

 

PERMANENT CIRCUITS (MODERN)

Bahrain, Paul Ricard, Sochi, Austin, Abu Dhabi

I'm nit picking but Paul Ricard is older than Barcelona and the Hungaroring. It's hardly a classic circuit though!

F1's aim is to bring the sport to the people, and street races are doing just that. 

Why do they have to do this though?  Why can't you build an actual circuit somewhere, and the product be so good that people come from far away just to see it?  Or is it an admission that the product isn't very good, so they are playing the "captive audience" game by cramming F1 races into the middle of a city center hoping that tourist can't avoid the event. That is a miserable state of affairs is it not? 

Edited by ARTGP, 25 November 2021 - 17:11.

Not bovvered,me.  Losail is as bland a race track as you could devise.  It makes Barcelona look exciting.  Street tracks are garbage.  So it is a choice of the worst of either world.  Best idea would be to NEVER go back to Qatar again.  Ever.

Why do they have to do this though?  Why can't you build an actual circuit somewhere, and the product be so good that people come from far away just to see it?  Or is it an admission that the product isn't very good, so they are playing the "captive audience" game by cramming F1 races into the middle of a city center hoping that tourist can't avoid the event. That is a miserable state of affairs is it not? 

We’re apparently living in a world where even a 10 minute drive is too much to expect from fans, as evidenced by the Detroit Indy GP moving back to downtown from Belle Isle Park.

I thought it raced better than I expected, but thinking back, was there any passes NOT at T1/DRS straight?

Ocon got his wheels back ahead of Perez into 3, but that was using ALL his battery. 

That's what I was thinking as well, it just met the bare minimum to be considered raceable. And it's just so extremely bland. Flat and featureless, not a single interesting corner, and pretty much nothing around it so it looks like it exists in some void - and it's not just the night race since it has the same feeling during the day. So I'm slightly on the street circuit side.

Edited by Anja, 25 November 2021 - 18:50.

F1's aim is to bring the sport to the people, and street races are doing just that. And they are clearly designing them with racing in mind - we can't say much about Jeddah until we see a race there, but we know Baku is pretty good for racing down the main straight, and Vietnam probably would have had some insane overtaking spots had it happened. And you have a point that the events in Baku make the races but, but street circuit generally do have more jeopardy which does increase the likelihood of such events. So I think the days of making a street circuit like Singapore are over. 

 

As fans, we are delighted to see Imola back on the claendar, for example, but it does kind of go against 'racing and overtaking'. But I get so much more satisfaction out of watching a standard dry Imola race than a Bahrain overtaking fest.  

 

There was a time back in the day when all circuits were based on public roads and streets... 

Whilst this is true (the “bringing F1 to the people”) it’s not like the Losail circuit is in the middle of nowhere. It is the equivalent of a British GP at Brands Hatch in terms of closeness to a major population centre.

We’re apparently living in a world where even a 10 minute drive is too much to expect from fans, as evidenced by the Detroit Indy GP moving back to downtown from Belle Isle Park.

Not sure whether any Indycar fans were in fact ever consulted about that move?

No more street circuits, I am a race fan not a parade fan.

I'm nit picking but Paul Ricard is older than Barcelona and the Hungaroring. It's hardly a classic circuit though!

I knew someone would say this - but there was no way I could put Paul Ricard as a 'classic' circuit when in its modern emasculated form it shared many more characterictics with Tilkedromes than the actual 'classic' circuits listed. 

Edited by JimmyClark, 25 November 2021 - 22:17.

I knew someone would say this - but there was no way I could put Paul Ricard as a 'classic' circuit when in its modern emasculated form it shared many more characterictics with Tilkedromes than the actual 'classic' circuits listed. 

But even when it was built is was as bland as it is today.

But even when it was built is was as bland as it is today.

Edited by JimmyClark, 26 November 2021 - 00:14.

To be fair not really compared to now, as the straight was something different and the runoffs had more jeopardy. But yes it was super boring compared to contemporary circuits at the time.

But surely that justifies me putting it in the category as a bland modern circuit anyway?

I think it’s padding the list. It’s barely changed since it was built.

Not fussed tbh, it was pretty bland - it could have been Bahrain and we'd have struggled to notice the difference.

Not fussed tbh, it was pretty bland - it could have been Bahrain and we'd have struggled to notice the difference.

Correction: you'd have struggled to notice the difference.

I imagine the Arabs saying on their motorsport forum: so which one is Spa? They all look the same to me - green grass and trees everywhere. How do they tell them apart? And please no more of those undulating tracks. The mountains aren't easy on the eyes. It figures though, they are poor. Imagine having to drive those Volkswagens and Renaults all your life. Poor bastards. But if we have to race in impoverished countries due to tradition, so be it.

Edited by Dolph, 26 November 2021 - 15:38.