How long before Valtteri lets Max past tomorrow?

Given his kitten-like strength at defending against Max at every available opportunity this year can Valterri actually do something to help his team and team mate win both titles this year? If not, how quickly/pathetically can he fail to do so?

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 04 December 2021 - 22:26.

Bottas helped his team and team mate already in Hungary...  and that "help" can mean a CC or/and DC. Big Help...

Bottas helped his team and team mate already in Hungary... and that "help" can mean a CC or/and DC. Big Help...

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 04 December 2021 - 22:54.

Sad that you think Lewis cant win it one on one. Perez is a non-entity, I would prefer Valtteri be one too and we can see the actual competitors going at it.

Sad that you think Lewis cant win it one on one. Perez is a non-entity, I would prefer Valtteri be one too and we can see the actual competitors going at it.

Lewis definitely can, but the whole talked up concept of a rear gunner just never seems to materialise. The only rear gunning we've seen this year was from Alonso in Hungary. Perez and Bottas have been total also rans, most notably when needed.

Bottas did win Turkey, and Perez was rapid in Baku.  Although I'm sure, for example, the much maligned DC was a better 'rear gunner' for Mika, and shock horror, occasionally had the measure of Schumacher too.  Not really seen that to anywhere near the same level with VB and Perez against Max and Lewis.

Bottas did win Turkey, and Perez was rapid in Baku. Although I'm sure, for example, the much maligned DC was a better 'rear gunner' for Mika, and shock horror, occasionally had the measure of Schumacher too. Not really seen that to anywhere near the same level with VB and Perez against Max and Lewis.

The way Valterri did that... proves he wasn't asked or indeed intended to. As when Valterri really needs to do something, it doesn't happen. Like Brazil. Like Sochi. Hence this thread.

I was not saying he did on purpose but the outcome was more than good...

He won’t have to as he’ll accidentally take Hamilton out. Noticed you left this out of this great poll and felt it should have been up there.

Then he will be fired at Mercedes, oooh

True they've had good races, but neither of those performances were helping their team mate against their rival in a direct way. We havnt seen Perez or Bottas land a blow on Lewis/Max respectively when up against them on track. IE hold one of them up for more than 1 corner from my memory of this season. And Bottas has had multiple opportunities to do so (hence my rare starting of an RC thread).

Perez inherited the Baku win, Lewis choked on the restart.

Turkey Bottas was amazing, but that didn't help Lewis much as he couldn't catch up in the race as we would have expected.

Perez inherited the Baku wi from Verstappen, not Hamilton. He was ahead of Lewis for majority of the race.

I'm sure Max scoring 7 points fewer in Turkey did help Lewis quite a lot. If that counts as a direct or indicert help I don't know but I'm sure winning a race against Verstappen that Hamilton could have not won is usually better than holding Verstappen behind for several laps on another occasion.
 

The way Valterri did that... proves he wasn't asked or indeed intended to. As when Valterri really needs to do something, it doesn't happen. Like Brazil. Like Sochi. Hence this thread.

In Brazil Bottas did something. Beat Verstappen for the win in the sprint. 1 point is not a lot but it may count in such a close season.
 

Given his kitten-like strength at defending against Max at every available opportunity this year can Valterri actually do something to help his team and team mate win both titles this year? If not, how quickly/pathetically can he fail to do so?

There’s a thread for this already: https://forums.autos...95#entry9692253

I don't find it a stupid question.

At the first opportunity, whenever it arises.

 Today... Lewis Hamilton described Valtteri Bottas as “the best teammate there has ever been in this sport” ... 

Autosport Forum... ahh let's destroy Bottas,  take 151

He's only got 1 job to do but if his history is anything to go by then he will be focussing on Lewis and making sure Lewis has a really difficult angle into t1, compromise Lewis line while making room for max to take the racing line.

Just kidding of course. I think.

Blaming Bottas for everything is a favourite theme,  even Lewis doesn't do it.  Why do you?

If he wasnt generally useless, I would be convinced something was up .... but he is mostly useless at wheel to wheel racing. 

That said, he has put up more of a fight against LH than MV so far this season ... so I still wonder if something is up.

Either way, I'm glad he is moving on. 

He is a moderate talent brought in only because of his relationship with Toto and he was brought in to play a support role.... but for some reason both he and the team refuse to acknowledge this publicly and it has led at times to confusion on his part as to whether (and how much) he should be a rear gunner this year.... its like he thinks he should be fighting for wins and titles when he never had the talent to make it to a top team on his own merit. but he (and what few fans he has) never faced reality and just accepted he is there to be a #2 driver..... in a way its been quite sad to watch. 

So I think he is now twisted enough by the mental contortions he has gone through for the past years to actually prefer MV win the WDC, rather than LH .... on a subconscious level.  

 Today... Lewis Hamilton described Valtteri Bottas as “the best teammate there has ever been in this sport” ... 

 

Autosport Forum... ahh let's destroy Bottas,  take 151

Maybe he expects something from him tomorrow. And he is talking him up. Yeah it was funny when he said he was the best teammate ever.

Sorry I missed it, why is there no grid penalty for Bottas for changing the PU?

Changing the PU is something teams do almost every weekend without penalty. It's when you introduce new parts to your pool AND have exceeded the allowed number of new parts for the season that a penalty applies.

Edited by beachdrifter, 05 December 2021 - 02:57.

Maybe he expects something from him tomorrow. And he is talking him up. Yeah it was funny when he said he was the best teammate ever.

Bottas never "lets Max past"  as in a "free pass"  

Into turn 1

Bottas did win Turkey, and Perez was rapid in Baku. Although I'm sure, for example, the much maligned DC was a better 'rear gunner' for Mika, and shock horror, occasionally had the measure of Schumacher too. Not really seen that to anywhere near the same level with VB and Perez against Max and Lewis.

 

So I think he is now twisted enough by the mental contortions he has gone through for the past years to actually prefer MV win the WDC, rather than LH .... on a subconscious level.  

This statement is pure delusion.

If he wasnt generally useless, I would be convinced something was up .... but he is mostly useless at wheel to wheel racing. 

 

That said, he has put up more of a fight against LH than MV so far this season ... so I still wonder if something is up.

 

Either way, I'm glad he is moving on. 

 

He is a moderate talent brought in only because of his relationship with Toto and he was brought in to play a support role.... but for some reason both he and the team refuse to acknowledge this publicly and it has led at times to confusion on his part as to whether (and how much) he should be a rear gunner this year.... its like he thinks he should be fighting for wins and titles when he never had the talent to make it to a top team on his own merit. but he (and what few fans he has) never faced reality and just accepted he is there to be a #2 driver..... in a way its been quite sad to watch. 

 

So I think he is now twisted enough by the mental contortions he has gone through for the past years to actually prefer MV win the WDC, rather than LH .... on a subconscious level.  

What a rant.  

Edited by PayasYouRace, 05 December 2021 - 09:05.

Voted 'warm up lap'. Seemed like the most appropriate response  

Edited by ForzaGTR, 05 December 2021 - 09:11.

 Today... Lewis Hamilton described Valtteri Bottas as “the best teammate there has ever been in this sport” ... 

 

Autosport Forum... ahh let's destroy Bottas,  take 151

I found that a bit of a strange comment from Lewis. What he’s basically saying is that Bottas is ‘the best number 2 ever in the sport’, in reality.

How does one be the ‘best teammate ever’? Surely that is one that pushes you to the end to win the WDC, on paper at least.

In reality, a great teammate to these elite drivers are ones that do as they are told.

Edited by timmy bolt, 05 December 2021 - 09:14.

Not that Valtteri is hard to pass but I'd play it extremely cautious today if I were Max. Yesterday was his first real taste of throwing too much caution to the wind and losing out. Last thing he needs is to trip over Bottas trying to jump him too soon. Thinking of Hamilton trying too hard in Monza back in 2010 and ending his own race and championship hopes after contact with Massa. Obviously if Bottas leaves the door wide open like he has done so often then he should take the gift but otherwise, the race is long and the Red Bull is fastest again by the looks of things this weekend. Most important thing is to stay in the fight and to pick his moments wisely. With each passing session Lewis and Max have less opportunity to put right any mistakes or ground loss.

He's only got 1 job to do take max out.

Just kidding . I think.

Poor thread

Rubbish thread.

Yes, let's all sneer at a driver with more talent than the rest of us put together. Let's forget all the moans, whines and mouth-frothing about drivers who block, weave and edge people off the track, and attack one of the few who is always scrupulously clean.

Bottas won't use dirty tricks against Verstappen. Good.

I don't believe anybody wishes for Bottas to use dirty tricks against Verstappen, though - just some robust, fair defending.

I don't believe anybody wishes for Bottas to use dirty tricks against Verstappen, though - just some robust, fair defending.

Edited by cheekybru, 05 December 2021 - 10:28.

I don't believe anybody wishes for Bottas to use dirty tricks against Verstappen, though - just some robust, fair defending.

I found that a bit of a strange comment from Lewis. What he’s basically saying is that Bottas is ‘the best number 2 ever in the sport’, in reality.

 

How does one be the ‘best teammate ever’? Surely that is one that pushes you to the end to win the WDC, on paper at least.

 

In reality, a great teammate to these elite drivers are ones that do as they are told.

Yeah he didnt like Nico because he wouldnt lie down dead, insisted on competing and eventually taking a WDC off him. Valtteri would never do that ;)

I found that a bit of a strange comment from Lewis. What he’s basically saying is that Bottas is ‘the best number 2 ever in the sport’, in reality.

How does one be the ‘best teammate ever’? Surely that is one that pushes you to the end to win the WDC, on paper at least.

In reality, a great teammate to these elite drivers are ones that do as they are told.

Yeah he didnt like Nico because he wouldnt lie down dead, insisted on competing and eventually taking a WDC off him. Valtteri would never do that ;)

 Today... Lewis Hamilton described Valtteri Bottas as “the best teammate there has ever been in this sport” ... 

 

Autosport Forum... ahh let's destroy Bottas,  take 151

Lewis is just desperately hoping that, if he is nice to Bottas, his 'team-mate' might actually give him a teeny tiny bit of help for once.  I voted turn 1, lap 1.  Just like Qatar. I do not recall a single instance where Bottas put up a fight.

The sooner Bottas is put in a mid field car where he belongs, the better.

Edited by BRG, 05 December 2021 - 11:55.

With all his shortcomings when it comes to direct on-track battles. Bottas took off more points from Max this season than Perez did from Hamilton. But let's conveniantly forget that. 

With all his shortcomings when it comes to direct on-track battles. Bottas took off more points from Max this season than Perez did from Hamilton. But let's conveniantly forget that.