Yuki Tsunoda rear wing failure, Baku '22, The decision making...

In the Azerbaijan GP, Yuki Tsunoda's rear wing flap split into two around lap 35 or so. Why was everybody (the team, and race control) so slow to react? As if it was a non-issue?

The evidence:

The wing looks all out of sorts and flexible.  

Here is the amateur gaffers tape job on lap 39. Look at how badly it's wobbling as they handle it. (okay fine it's aluminum tape, but still not inspiring confidence):

What in the world were they thinking a) not pulling him in sooner (AT or race control) and b) letting him back out on a circuit with such massive speeds with such a shoddy repair job?

Have they gone mad?

Raikkonen '04:

Schumacher '92:

Raikkonen and Schumacher were lucky to have gravel traps and lots of run off....

Edited by ARTGP, 12 June 2022 - 23:22.

It was definitely an unnecessary risk. By the time it was repaired he had dropped out of the points and could no longer use DRS.

 

However, the car did another 15 laps with the repaired wing - so no matter how shoddy it looked, the fact is, the repair was sufficient to complete the race. 

Which could only be proven by completing all 15 laps. There were no guarantees and it looked extremely sketchy. A part that carries a massive aero load split into two, and the team thought it wise to tape and send him back out.

The car should have been parked in my opinion. A rear wing is not something you tape together and go back out at 340km/h....It could have easily been an airplane accident if the flap let go in the wrong place like in the kink leading onto the main straight.

Edited by ARTGP, 12 June 2022 - 23:39.

Edited by Jones Foyer, 13 June 2022 - 00:18.

Edited by boomn, 13 June 2022 - 00:15.

I'm not familiar with the exact build of the wing, nor do I know the nature of the problem, what was broken etc so I might be completely wrong here....However, I did not feel at all that it was dangerous during the race, so I was perfectly fine with how it was handled.

We have seen the duct tape repair a lot during previous years (mostly during red flag fixes) so even that was not even surprising or strange in my book.

The team know how the wing functions. If the actuator fails, or detaches, the wing snaps closed- the high downforce position. 

To be clear.  The issue is the wing split into two pieces. The actuator didn't fail. 

Do you not see what is wrong in this picture?

How do you go from this:

To this:

The wing  has completely failed. It has been fractured into two pieces. 

Edited by ARTGP, 13 June 2022 - 00:43.

It was surprising how flexible the wing looked as they were taping it. It obviously passed the load test, though. The repair looked worse then it was. As long as he didn't try to use DRS the team judged it safe.

Yes, the team judged it safe - or, perhaps more accurately, the team thought it was worth the risk. Should the team, rather than the regulators, be the ones making that decision?

Yes, the team judged it safe - or, perhaps more accurately, the team thought it was worth the risk. Should the team, rather than the regulators, be the ones making that decision?

Did the stewards come down to his pit stop to help check and provide approval? Did they give Tsunoda another flag after the repair stop? Or did they trust the mechanics who build and maintain the car to make a more informed decision?

I think the question is no one seemed to know what was going on including race control and I doubt there's a process for this.  RW flap is quite an important part that carries a high load. Just a few weeks ago, RB couldn't even get their flap to open, the loads were so high. 

Tsunoda's wing was only noted as being damaged by the commentators on the lap 36 replay video and he received the black and orange on lap 38, but the wing was actually damaged a few laps before lap 36 even. I caught a glimpse of it a couple laps prior when they showed his onboard in passing and it looked strange but I didn't think much of it at the time because such a failure was not in the realm of my imagination. Then they showed him on lap 36 when the flap opened only on 1 side and then I realized why the wing looked strange a few laps prior. It had been snapped in half. 

Edited by ARTGP, 13 June 2022 - 03:37.

To be clear. The issue is the wing split into two pieces. The actuator didn't fail.

Do you not see what is wrong in this picture?





How do you go from this:


To this:




The wing has completely failed. It has been fractured into two pieces.

Edited by Jones Foyer, 13 June 2022 - 04:29.

Which could only be proven by completing all 15 laps. There were no guarantees and it looked extremely sketchy. A part that carries a massive aero load split into two, and the team thought it wise to tape and send him back out.

 

The car should have been parked in my opinion. A rear wing is not something you tape together and go back out at 340km/h....It could have easily been an airplane accident if the flap let go in the wrong place like in the kink leading onto the main straight.

It was a very risky move, my heart was in my mouth watching him down the straight as if the wing had failed there he would have had one hell of a smash. When you think about it, it made no sense as it's not as if he was still in the points and it's not as if he had any chance of being able to fight his way back into the points with no DRS. Even if a SC had happened he would have been a sitting duck for others to overtake.

They didn’t need to do much more than tell Tsunoda not to use it.

This... hindsight is always 20/20 but yes, all they needed was to tell Yuki not to use it and disable it from pitwall (if at all possible).

But as WelshSwan mentions, as soon as he was out of the points it would have been better to just retire him and save the components for another day.

 

 

 

 

The wing looks all out of sorts and flexible.  

 

 

Here is the amateur gaffers tape job on lap 39. Look at how badly it's wobbling as they handle it. (okay fine it's aluminum tape, but still not inspiring confidence):

 

 

What in the world were they thinking a) not pulling him in sooner (AT or race control) and b) letting him back out on a circuit with such massive speeds with such a shoddy repair job?

 

Have they gone mad?

That type of aluminium tape is extremely strong. I’ve used it for temporary aviation repairs in the past. I hope you’ll agree that flight safety is an order of magnitude higher than F1 safety. A lot more can go wrong.

Of course the wing is going to look out of sorts and flexible if it was split down the middle. It didn’t have anything holding it in place anymore. I have full confidence in the repair job they did for the remainder of the race. Plus, they put a limitation in the form of not allowing Yuki to use DRS any longer.

It might not have looked pretty, but it did the job.

To be clear.  The issue is the wing split into two pieces. The actuator didn't fail. 

 

Do you not see what is wrong in this picture?

 

 

 

 

 

How do you go from this:

 

To this:

 

 

 

The wing  has completely failed. It has been fractured into two pieces. 

Indeed. How did go from a to b? What caused the failure? Was it purely a failure under load? If so, was there a manufacturing process problem in that flap in particular?  Or was it broken by debris? Why did this happen in the race in Baku but never before in this season? Stuff for the team to look into.

To be clear.  The issue is the wing split into two pieces. The actuator didn't fail. 

 

Do you not see what is wrong in this picture?

 

 

 

 

 

How do you go from this:

 

To this:

 

 

 

The wing  has completely failed. It has been fractured into two pieces. 

Sorry, the wing has failed? How do you know? As far as we know, only the DRS flap broke in two, the wing was in one piece. Big difference. 

I don’t get the drama. It looked like his drs was not opening fully

The flap broke in half, which is why only one side opened when the DRS was activated.

They did a temporary repair and told him not to use DRS, as that could undo the repair.

Not that dramatic, but not as mundane as a simple DRS failure either.

I do wonder why they told Verstappen to no longer use his DRS though. Gasly had no problem using his. Was it just a coincidence, RB being extremely cautious or is there a possible logical explanation?

Couldnt find any interview afterwards where somebody asked RB about that. Was a bit odd. 

I do wonder why they told Verstappen to no longer use his DRS though. Gasly had no problem using his. Was it just a coincidence, RB being extremely cautious or is there a possible logical explanation?

Couldnt find any interview afterwards where somebody asked RB about that. Was a bit odd.

Haven’t Red Bull Racing been having issues with their wing flap all season?

How much sharing is going on between the two teams?

Yes, they have, but that seemed to have a different issue though (at least as in how the issue was displaying itself).

That was indeed also the question that popped in my head... None of the journalists seem to care about it though, or at least I couldnt find anything on it.

I do wonder why they told Verstappen to no longer use his DRS though. Gasly had no problem using his. Was it just a coincidence, RB being extremely cautious or is there a possible logical explanation?

Couldnt find any interview afterwards where somebody asked RB about that. Was a bit odd.

The flap broke in half, which is why only one side opened when the DRS was activated.

They did a temporary repair and told him not to use DRS, as that could undo the repair.

Not that dramatic, but not as mundane as a simple DRS failure either.

I think the question is no one seemed to know what was going on including race control and I doubt there's a process for this.  RW flap is quite an important part that carries a high load. Just a few weeks ago, RB couldn't even get their flap to open, the loads were so high. 

 

Tsunoda's wing was only noted as being damaged by the commentators on the lap 36 replay video and he received the black and orange on lap 38, but the wing was actually damaged a few laps before lap 36 even. I caught a glimpse of it a couple laps prior when they showed his onboard in passing and it looked strange but I didn't think much of it at the time because such a failure was not in the realm of my imagination. Then they showed him on lap 36 when the flap opened only on 1 side and then I realized why the wing looked strange a few laps prior. It had been snapped in half. 

Well the same issues as always, they not pro actively monitoring onboards, but seem to instead wait for something like a TV presenter or TV director to notice and then be reactionary instead, the officiating is stone age.

Interesting how the flap broke.

There must be metal structural piece at the top end of the flap connected to the endplates which was probably intact. 

Half the flap was still able to open and pivot while the other was still intact

It s actually less dramatic that a DRS failure as it was half a DRS failure.

Yes, they have, but that seemed to have a different issue though (at least as in how the issue was displaying itself).

That was indeed also the question that popped in my head... None of the journalists seem to care about it though, or at least I couldnt find anything on it.

I don't think the black and orange flag was even necessary, actually. A simple instruction to disable DRS for Yuki to the team would have been fine, and I thought this watching the race.

The commentators as usual were over the top hysterical about it. Cars have driven a number of laps with broken parts before, it wasn't even structural.

I wouldn’t have thought to look into it. RBR have a known issue. AT had a different failure.

But a simple question as to why they asked Max to no longer use DRS surely would have been possible...

As said, it's easily possible that it's a coincidence, but the timing was just a bit odd. 

They have had issues on Friday with the wing as in other races as well. With half a second/lap margin on Perez, it was pointless to risk it.

It did the job get over it

Exactly.  The 'nanny state' mentality on this forum is rather over the top.  No kittens or puppies were  put in danger.

That was indeed also the question that popped in my head... None of the journalists seem to care about it though, or at least I couldnt find anything on it.

The Ch4 team immediately seized on that point although they quickly moved on.  Probably worried that they might have to interview Horner yet again....

I think this thread is, at least some members are, way too heated up to be anything but objective.

Fact is that the "gaffer tape" held on and made Yuki finish the race.
Fact is that no team will send out their driver if they know the driver will have a high possibility to wreck the car due to a failure that the team just fixed.
Fact is that the FIA will not investigate the whole happening and thus the explanation of the team given to the FIA was accordingly to what the FIA expected as a fix.

Then there is the issue of the failure itself; a DRS actuated rear wing simply is a moveable part that can break. It's as easy as that. That it split in the middle could very simply be the issue of a wing already being used too many sessions and that it wore out. Also an object could have hit the rear wing, causing it to break.

I really do not understand all the fuss.

The team know how the wing functions. If the actuator fails, or detaches, the wing snaps closed- the high downforce position. If he was instructed to not use it, it would remain safely closed. I believe that tape was simply a gesture to address the meatball notification. The actual repair was not made- they just looked at it and determined it would not be an issue if it remained closed. Tape work was done to make a gesture imitating repair, the wing condition was inspected and instruction for safe use was given. It wasn’t going to fly off the pylons like raikkonen’s wing. Completely different failure. Non issue. No one protested it, everyone moved on.

I completely agree with that, the pitstop and the tape was unnecessary, showing how much the FIA is clueless.

But a simple question as to why they asked Max to no longer use DRS surely would have been possible...

As said, it's easily possible that it's a coincidence, but the timing was just a bit odd.

I completely agree with that, the pitstop and the tape was unnecessary, showing how much the FIA is clueless.

It did the job. I trust the engineers more than forum members in this thread. 

Yuki was extremely unlucky though. Another very good race. 

He has matured this year. 

the wing looks super bendy, why don't they mandate it's made solid?

It was very harsh, he would have finished 6th

Edited by William Hunt, 13 June 2022 - 12:39.

Back in 2005, Kimi Raikkonen raced on and on at the Nurburgring even though everyone - him, the team, the spectators, even the FIA - could see that the front suspension was breaking and a crash was inevitable when it finally failed.  No meatball flag, all the Kimistas cheering him on as the fearless super-hero etc etc. and very few of us thinking that it showed that Kimi was a bear of very little brain.  And then he crashed, fortunately without damaging himself or anyone else.

How times change.  A little broken wing flap and the whole health and safety balloon goes up.  Yuki is forced to stop for a temporary fix and even then the massed Cassandras of the internet are crying that it is too dangerous and shouldn't be allowed. 

Edited by BRG, 13 June 2022 - 12:45.

Did the stewards come down to his pit stop to help check and provide approval? Did they give Tsunoda another flag after the repair stop? Or did they trust the mechanics who build and maintain the car to make a more informed decision?

You mean the way that they just take the mechanics' word for it that the car will pass the FIA crash tests? 

To answer your first question, as Tsunoda was leaving the box after the flap had been taped up, one of the Sky announcers (probably Kravitz) said that Jo Bauer (FIA Technical Delegate) was hurrying down to the AT pits to find out what was going on.

Back in 2005, Kimi Raikkonen raced on and on at the Nurburgring even though everyone - him, the team, the spectators, even the FIA - could see that the front suspension was breaking and a crash was inevitable when it finally failed.  No meatball flag, all the Kimistas cheering him on as the fearless super-hero etc etc. and very few of us thinking that it showed that Kimi was a bear of very little brain. 

This is well stated, given that he did like to have a Pooh before the race.

This was exactly why the meatball flag exists. It was unknown if the flap would stay in place, and could have been a danger to Yuki or to others.

Edited by RedRabbit, 13 June 2022 - 13:26.