Pitting under the VSC

Closed pit lane can cause a whole lot randomness and ruined positions

What's lame is gaining an advantage with cheap pit stops under a VSC that's designed to neutralize the field.

The first immediate problem I can think of is what would happen if someone with a flat tyre or a damaged car needs to pit and the pit is closed.

I dont see how it would. With no refuelling everyone’s pit window is flexible. Usually VSCs don’t last more than 2 laps, so I don’t see how a driver waiting 1 or 2 laps to pit would lead to ruined positions.

As one of the other posters said, it would only be unfair to cars with damage that need repairs.

The only other one I can think of is a VSC in the last few laps coupled with a car which hasn’t run 2 different compounds during the race. Quite a fringe case though.

Edited by Rediscoveryx, 20 June 2022 - 06:19.

What's lame is gaining an advantage with cheap pit stops under a VSC that's designed to neutralize the field.

Why is it lame? It's luck of course, but it's just part of the nature of the VSC or indeed SC. You win some, you lose some. Over the course of the year it evens out. It is down to the teams to decide whether to pit under VSC. And that's all part of the fun of race strategy....as a fan, sometimes not knowing if certain strategies will pay off until the closing laps is fun. 

With PL closed, we could get massive stops like in the US? That isn't feasible in F1 where a team has a single pit instead of one per car.

Pit under a VSC should mean a 5 or 10 sec wait before mechanics can work on the car

Edited by MattK9, 20 June 2022 - 08:11.

Pit under a VSC should mean a 5 or 10 sec wait before mechanics can work on the car

What is the problem we are trying to solve?
Vsc pitting is as fair as it is to pit just after it started raining.
It’s just racing

If the issue is a VSC is not out for entire lap, then let's ask a question:

What would happen if they kept the VSC out that much longer, so that everyone had the chance to pass by the pit entry or use the opportunity.

But then for example, how is it fair that a VSC is thrown, just after someone changed tyres on his car?

It seems to me no rule is gonna be perfect. Keep the pit open then, it's safer and causes no confusion.

I think because the purpose of the VSC is to neutralise the race but it doesn't do that.

I’m interested in your reasoning as to why you think it doesn’t neutralise the race.

Edited by w1Y, 20 June 2022 - 08:42.

I think the argument is that some VSC’s have been out for less than 1 lap. In that case cars who can put during the VSC period get an advantage which cars on the other side of the track do not.

Because people who pit save a lot of time than someone who pits under normal conditions. Its doesn't always even allow everyone the opportunity to pit under it either. Thought that was pretty clear.

If they added a delay to the vsc pit to make the net time the same as those putting under normal conditions then it would be fair but that may have other issues

The first immediate problem I can think of is what would happen if someone with a flat tyre or a damaged car needs to pit and the pit is closed.

One could either allow pitting for critical repairs/tyre changes ( basically as in punctures), or just set a minimum pitstop time when pitting during the VSC to offset the saved time.

I fail to see the problem. Pitting under a normal Safety Car also has its drawbacks. If one has passed the pits already when the SC sign comes out, then there is a disadvantage there also. Its all part of the game.

The only issue with pitting under a VSC is that as soon as a car is in the pitlane it is not governed by the VSC delta, so the cars can gun it in and out of the pits (before the SC line) and gain chunks of time that way relative to a normal racing pitstop.  That is what they need to tidy up.  Closing the pitlane would be a step too far.

If it starts raining on a track after you passed you get an advantage
If a yellow flag happens after you - you get an advantage

Timing is part of the game

Edited by Ali_G, 20 June 2022 - 09:06.

Most pitlane speeds during races are 80km/u. I cant imagine that there are much delta's who force the drivers to go slower than this.

If the pit lane was closed during a SC/ VSC, then the current champion would be Hamilton, anyone considered that? And no I am not attempting to ressurrect that argument, just putting it out there as a statement.

Most pitlane speeds during races are 80km/u. I cant imagine that there are much delta's who force the drivers to go slower than this.

Iirc, the delta isn't measured from the Pit Exit line (limiter off) until SC-line 1 (the big white line midway in T2 crossing the pit exit line). That is ~3-400 meters of unrestricted running vs others on 40% lower speeds.

Relevant threads about the impact of pitting under SC/VSC 

https://forums.autos...ion-during-vsc/

https://forums.autos...losed-pit-lane/

https://forums.autos...new-safety-car/

My opinion: SC and VSC are always going to favour some drivers and cost other drivers. Which is by essence unfair, but the added randomness affects everyone similarly. This encourages teams to elaborate strategies that are resilient to SC/VSC, or that try to take advantage of them.

In the case of pitting under VSC, the trade-off for a few "free" seconds of pitstop is usually running a suboptimal strategy and being exposed if another SC/VSC happens. As it stands, VSC also affects the racing directly, because depending on what part of the track you are when it starts and ends, and how you handle the deltas, you can end up losing or gaining (the delta dictates track position but not speed and acceleration).

In a nutshell, sometimes you get lucky with VSC, sometimes you don't, and yes it could even happen at a title decider, but I don't think there's anything to fix there.

What is the problem we are trying to solve?
Vsc pitting is as fair as it is to pit just after it started raining.
It’s just racing

I swither between this perspective (it's just sporting luck), and closing the pitlane for safety (RC are focussed on the incident, not on pitlane events - as evidenced at AD where they were so focussed on the incident they couldn't even count lapped cars)

There is a bit of luck going on with timing, but that's the case with weather conditions, accidents in front of innocent drivers, even to some extent mechanical or tyre problems. 

Part of the intrigue is how different teams and drivers interpret the available information and apply it to strategy. Do they hope there will be another VSC/SC later in the race and stay out? Was the VSC just at the right moment to pit? 

It's fair in a way that DRS is not, because the car in front specifically will not be given an advantage that the car behind can have. VSC is far preferable to the old way of letting stricken cars stay on track, or having marshals on a live racetrack trying to push a car to a refuge point. 

Iirc, the delta isn't measured from the Pit Exit line (limiter off) until SC-line 1 (the big white line midway in T2 crossing the pit exit line). That is ~3-400 meters of unrestricted running vs others on 40% lower speeds.

That is something I had not considered. But that should be an easy fix, include this part of the track as an active track when there is a VSC and apply a delta there too. This to force drivers to commit to the delta as well.

The VSC is part of the game; and it adds to the strategic mix. Yesterday Hamilton and Max pitted during the first vsc and the entire pitstop was under vsc. Sainz on the other hand went in under vsc but out under green, ending up behind Alonso losing time. They were showing replays but it was green when they went back to live feed IIRC. With the full sc Sainz was just on the straight towards pit so it fitted beautifully for him on that ocassion. 

Closing the pits is awful

Easily solved. Do away with tyre changes. Don't need them anyway.

Iirc, the delta isn't measured from the Pit Exit line (limiter off) until SC-line 1 (the big white line midway in T2 crossing the pit exit line). That is ~3-400 meters of unrestricted running vs others on 40% lower speeds.

Yeah, the same goes for the pit entry. Cars that enter the pit lane can go flat out between the safety car line and the beginning of the pit lane/speed limit.

Vary the speed limit under VSC in pitlane per track so the advantage is neutralized.

If it starts raining on a track after you passed you get an advantage
If a yellow flag happens after you - you get an advantage

Timing is part of the game

What is the problem we are trying to solve?
Vsc pitting is as fair as it is to pit just after it started raining.
It’s just racing

X driver pits for undercut, then the opponent pits in the next lap. If VSC is deployed, then the 2nd driver will gain like 10s with no merit. It is like hitting the random jackpot.

You can say it is part of the game.... but how can you say it is fair? It is clearly not.

Rain is a bit different, because that can be at least anticipated, also you can risk staying out on slicks etc, you have options to react. VSC / SC is just pure time gift.

Also just because we don't have control over rain, it is not a reason not to change something we have control over (SC / VSC).

 

You can say it is part of the game.... but how can you say it is fair? 

It is fair because it is part of the game. There's, luckily, an element of luck in every game. If there wasn't there would not be any hope.

Nah leave them in. SC/VSC has hurt 'my driver' in a race a bunch of times, but it's part of the game. 

Strategies are built around it, SC windows etc. Providing the rules are applied properly and consistently (ahem) I don't see an issue with occasionally having your race made or trashed due to (V)SC timing.

If you are Alonso, then yes

If your are not, then no

I think there was a certain "purity" (if that's the right word) about races in the past that just essentially ran themselves with no real interference from race control. Obviously we can't simply go back to that now because of safety requirements, but we don't want artificial contrivances to have too much effect on the end result either. It would be perfectly possible to have a different (slower) pitlane speed limit during an SC or VSC period that would approximately negate the advantage gained. Should be easy enough to do.

They could drop the pit speed limit by a proportional amount

I think this would work, and I can't see any downsides. I suggested it almost exactly 10 years ago! Minor change to SC rules - Racing Comments Archive - The Autosport Forums

Edited by Dunky1980, 20 June 2022 - 13:49.

I think because the purpose of the VSC is to neutralise the race but it doesn't do that.
I'd be happy with a slower pit lane entry or a delayed pitstop for a time deemed to be the saving for pitting under vsc