My ideal racing series

All the threads about overtaking, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, and what could change, has got me wondering. I think that we all have slightly different ideals.

So I'm inviting you to invent a hypothetical racing series. It's NOT formula one. But what would give you the best racing spectacle? High top speed or High corner speed? Close battles? Single-Spec machinery? Fast corners or Twisty technical complexes? City-centre vistas or hilly topography? The world's your oyster.

(but let's assume that driver safety as a priority is a given)

 

I'd like to see a racing series with :

-Small light nimble cars

-Zero or v little aero downforce

-Really thin pram wheels with tyres made of wood

-Brakes made of cheese

-Wide open regs

 

Hmm, sounds like i've invented F1 circa 1967 so far, but also...

-Limited fossil fuel & battery energy allowance

-Unlimited energy harvesting, including KERS, solar, wind power etc.

 

And because of  driver safety, there would need to be lower speeds involved in such a series. But that's okay, because top speed is less interesting to me than the challenge of low grip

 

How about you?

 

Sounds like a recipe for UK FF1600 in the '70s.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 31 May 2022 - 09:52.

One can only presume you don't literally mean tyres made of wood and brakes made of cheese

One can only presume you don't literally mean tyres made of wood and brakes made of cheese

Oh, yeah, I shoulda said that.

Although... if we let teams experiment, then would Brie or Manchego make the best braking materials? Perhaps Gouda for heat management? I can see a world of investment in cheese technology. 

Take Formula One, replace the engines with V10s running on fully bio ethonol fuel, add in a team or 2, let the FIA take back full control over dicating and upholding the rules, take back any influence team have on Formula One, get high degradation tyres and include refueling and I think you are practically there.

You are a visionary, BerniesDad. (Though I wish you'd thought twice before fathering Bernie).

 

Not only is that a good recipe for racing, but now is the right time to consider moving racing - including F1 - in that direction. Technology is now so advanced that no rule-set can allow cars to be anywhere near the limit of what's possible. Speed and laptime are meaningless; they're set by rule-makers not car designers. The ultimate racing car would be unwatchable.

 

Let's acknowledge we have an artificial sport, and make the most of it by ensuring the circuits are exciting and pleasant places to be, the cars are spectacular rather than quick, the racing gives a balance between hectic action and admiration of skill, and the whole thing is sustainable (environmentally and financially).

 

A revolution please.

Oh, yeah, I shoulda said that.

Although... if we let teams experiment, then would Brie or Manchego make the best braking materials? Perhaps Gouda for heat management? I can see a world of investment in cheese technology. 

Come now, cheese brakes would clearly require a hard cheese.  I would opt for Gran Padano or Parmesan (not grated obviously).  Or a very mature Gouda.  

 

Driver:  "I am coming in - the brakes are cooked!"

 

Team:  "Copy that, we have the toast on ready"

 

Anywho......

 

Much narrower tyres hard enough to last the race distance (just, so the tyre munchers get penalised), no aero at all (and the very presence of Adrian Newey at at race would bring penalties), a set amount of fuel - it can be bio or whatever - and you can use any engine combination you like, Group C style., no hybrid because too heavy, small dimensions.

 

Oh it is 1960s F1 isn't it!!

Oh, yeah, I shoulda said that.

Although... if we let teams experiment, then would Brie or Manchego make the best braking materials? Perhaps Gouda for heat management? I can see a world of investment in cheese technology. 

You'd need a combination of high friction and high melting point, which would rule out raclette on both counts. I would go with halloumi. They would also squeak when a lot of pressure was applied to the brake pedal, which would be very spectacular.

I'm a Kachkéis fan, and would hope it never gets abused for braking material. But if it be so, it's wonderfully sticky and would generate tons of g-force in deceleration!!

Look, this is silly.  Use a soft cheese and you might get one good stop, but then you would need to unstick the braking material from the disc (which would presumably be a pizza base?) before you could move off again.

 

Maybe use salami instead?

Longer braking distance means more chance of errors and even more chance to overtake someone.

 

So steel brakes, anyone?

Id prefer really sh!tty brakes to get proper skidmarks on track

Or in driver' pants? That would mean those are some real sh#tty brakes.

• Maximum dimensions: 5 m length x 2.5 m wheelbase x 1.25 m height.
• Maximal power output at least 675 kW.
• Minimum weight 500 kg.

Completely unrealistic, but I would watch it. 

Basically you are describing F. Ford 1600
Very exciting cars to watch race: and they do slipstreaming a lot

 

Cars that are smaller (shorter in particular) and nimble tend to look a lot faster. Look at F1 cars in the '70s or '80s: they look much faster as they actually were. Smaller cars also tend do slide a bit more which is spectacular to watch.
Today's F1 cars are very long and very stable compared to older generation F1 cars. So today's cars tend to look slower (on tv).

Edited by William Hunt, 31 May 2022 - 22:16.

Basically F1 as it was in 1990.

I am curious to see what bringing back bias-ply tires would do when bolted to modern racecars, i.e. tires operate that best at a larger slip angle and are more progressive in losing grip at the limit, i.e. tires that are faster when driven more sideways through corners.  That might not play well cars that have more yaw-sensitive aero or maybe with modern downforce levels at all, but I'd like to see them try!

Edited by boomn, 31 May 2022 - 22:42.

1. Driver/rider skill is the biggest performance differentiator.

2. Sport has priority over entertainment.

3. Best rider/drivers in the world.

4. Vehicles are able to race in close proximity.

Basically F1 as it was in 1990.

 

Make that the '70s: put the whole field on Cosworth engines

1970 Can Am

 

Those rules with iron brakes, H pattern shifter and tires that would have a 500 treadwear rating on a street car.

My ideal series is the Spazzaneve.

I noticed a disturbing drift away from the idea of actual cheese for brakes, so to return to topic: it has to be Swiss, does it not?  After all, rotors need venting to prevent overheating, and since Swiss is available in large "billets" (so to speak), we could machine the entire rotor/hub/wheel/tire from solid, which would be more reliable than a bolted assembly.

F1:
- Open tires
- Tire manufacturers will have to produce monsoon tires and wet weather racing becomes a thing again
- Some increasing electrification to stay with the times and not become obsolete with road cars
- Manufacturers can enter races as they choose (and there is a pre-qualifying in place)
- No cost cap (or if there is it is bigger than now)
- No DRS
- No sprint race
- Max 16 races and Australia starts the season
- The rest is fine as it is, ie mainly technical regulations and aesthetics

F2:
- Open chassis with cost-cap (EVO package every 3 years allowed)
- Open engine with cost-cap
- No DRS
- Drivers can stay as long as they wish
- There is a non-F1 weekend somewhere where they are the headliner

Indycar:
- Open chassis (EVO package every 2 years allowed)
- If the winner fails tech inspection or whatever he gets penalised accordingly and not get away with it
- Better points system
- The rest as it is currently

Le Mans:
- No balance of performance
- No spec / cartel cars
- No pro-am
- No badge engineering

Edited by LolaB0860, 01 June 2022 - 05:56.

You can't machine cheese. It's sculpted.

Light cars.

More power than grip (but still a lot of both).

No crappy Tilkedromes like Abu Dhabi. Gravel runoffs should be the norm.

Naturally aspirated V12 engines with tons of power. Maybe 1100 horsepower or so.

Proper manual H-pattern gearboxes.

Some spec parts would be fine (I prefer that to B teams), but absolutely NO balance of performance crap.

= I basically want F1 with lighter cars, real tracks and V12s. Current road cars don't really excite me too much in general, so I'm fine with something that is more of a sport rather than semi relevant for car manufacturers.

Edited by Lennat, 01 June 2022 - 08:37.

Well, a real-life version of this would be just about perfect for me:

 

https://www.racedepa...hampions.50257/

 

Small, light, tube frame cars

Big V8

No down force

Not quite enough grip

Oh, and the field includes every F1 World Champion ever.

Maybe I ask for too much.

 

Edited by wingnuts, 01 June 2022 - 12:35.

I think what I would like to see is roughly the Formula E Gen3 car, but with the overall length cut down to 4.2m, still on treaded tires, with a low rather than raised nose, much sleeker rear deck and sidepods, and another 150kg less weight.  

1. Ignition by fixed-timing magneto - therefore, no electrical charging system is to be installed

2. All cars use common engine mounting schemes, because:

3. Claiming rule for engines - say, 20k in GBP, USD, Euros, whatever

4. Mechanical shifters and clutches are required

5. One-way-only radio comm from driver to pitlane and No datalink, data recording, or telemetry of any kind other than timing & scoring transponders .

6. Max tire tread width 10" front, 14" rear

7 Max chassis & body width 1m, max wheelbase 100", single element wings 12" max chord, max width to inside edge of tires, & no bodywork below and behind rear axle line

8. Max team personnel at any event - 10, including agents, managers, sponsor reps, etc.

9. Any pit stop for any reason other than safety related issue or to replace a puncture incurs an additional 30 sec penalty assessed after the race is complete. Depending on how this works out in Season One, an option to increase penalty to 1 minute is on the table.

10. Refueling during a race is prohibited.

 

Race distance to be appropriate # of laps to result in min 1 hr 45 min track time at race speed.

Race "Control" shall keep their control issues in check and allow the race to take place with little to no offtrack input.

Full Course Yellow adamantly discouraged.

No tire compound drama, no pit stop "strategy" drama, no DRS, no KERS, no acronyms

LOL

Le Mans:
- No balance of performance
- No spec / cartel cars
- No pro-am
- No badge engineering

Yes please

Normal roadcars, but with only 3 wheels on
You can decide which one not to have

Edited by LucaP, 01 June 2022 - 21:35.

All the threads about overtaking, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, and what could change, has got me wondering. I think that we all have slightly different ideals.

So I'm inviting you to invent a hypothetical racing series. It's NOT formula one. But what would give you the best racing spectacle? High top speed or High corner speed? Close battles? Single-Spec machinery? Fast corners or Twisty technical complexes? City-centre vistas or hilly topography? The world's your oyster.

(but let's assume that driver safety as a priority is a given)

 

I'd like to see a racing series with :

-Small light nimble cars

-Zero or v little aero downforce

-Really thin pram wheels with tyres made of wood

-Brakes made of cheese

-Wide open regs

 

Hmm, sounds like i've invented F1 circa 1967 so far, but also...

-Limited fossil fuel & battery energy allowance

-Unlimited energy harvesting, including KERS, solar, wind power etc.

 

And because of  driver safety, there would need to be lower speeds involved in such a series. But that's okay, because top speed is less interesting to me than the challenge of low grip

 

How about you?

 

Just remove a few of these points and you have Aussie Supercars.

You should try watching that.

What I want to see and what I think is possible are two different things.

I think the ultimate open-class racing series would have as its rulebook a maximum vehicle dimension, a minimum crash safety and driver protection standard, a top speed limited somewhere between 200-250 mph, and a maximum driver G-load of 5.5 G's in any direction at any speed. Beyond that, everything else is open.

As a more realistic option and possible direction for the future, I think a governing body would form a series of partnerships with companies who develop vehicle parts–springs, dampers, tyres, bodywork, power plants, and so-forth–and teams purchase components from these companies as necessary to construct a race car. Sort of like IndyCar's approach with engines, where the formula involved in the development is pretty tight but still with some scope for performance gains, except it would extend to all parts of the car. The series would need a mix of superspeedways, short/mid-length ovals, road, and street courses. I figure this balances driving prowess with engineering talent nicely and will probably be the sweet spot in the future if only to ensure that racing organisations are the ones who are running the teams first and foremost while the manufacturers get the spotlight as sponsors of the teams.

All the threads about overtaking, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, and what could change, has got me wondering. I think that we all have slightly different ideals.

So I'm inviting you to invent a hypothetical racing series. It's NOT formula one. But what would give you the best racing spectacle? High top speed or High corner speed? Close battles? Single-Spec machinery? Fast corners or Twisty technical complexes? City-centre vistas or hilly topography? The world's your oyster.

(but let's assume that driver safety as a priority is a given)

 

I'd like to see a racing series with :

-Small light nimble cars

-Zero or v little aero downforce

-Really thin pram wheels with tyres made of wood

-Brakes made of cheese

-Wide open regs

 

Hmm, sounds like i've invented F1 circa 1967 so far, but also...

-Limited fossil fuel & battery energy allowance

-Unlimited energy harvesting, including KERS, solar, wind power etc.

 

And because of  driver safety, there would need to be lower speeds involved in such a series. But that's okay, because top speed is less interesting to me than the challenge of low grip

 

How about you?

 

Nice voice.

 

I want to here more about these words.

 

 

I previously shouted for a cigar on four wheels. So indeed chassis made out of tube, no longer than 4750mm, nothing sticks out of envelope as wide as 885mm except wheels suspensions and mirrors. For PU I kida like four wheel drive, two E motors in the front wheels and 1 litter V10 on its back with rev no limits, screaming like hell, no turbo. Race to be on 400km one refueling.

 

Rule need rethink, on race control, rain and safety cars as we all know...

 

Most importantly, The car body surface to be made with OLED screen with which Dynamic Publicity can be made.

Edited by kumo7, 02 June 2022 - 01:01.

1. Driver/rider skill is the biggest performance differentiator.

2. Sport has priority over entertainment.

3. Best rider/drivers in the world.

4. Vehicles are able to race in close proximity.

5. Driver/Rider must directly control ALL variable systems on the vehicle, with the exception of spark timing.

Edited by Frank Tuesday, 02 June 2022 - 01:03.

1. No car regulations

2. Drivers control car virtually (VR) for their safety

3. Pastor Maldonado is race director

4. Keep the crowd well back