What do you think, re: F1 rebuff of Andretti Autosport & Colton Herta SL situation?

Like many of you, I've read a lot here about the Colton Herta and Andretti Autosport problems. Someone brought up the point today that just because some people post one way or the other, it's not really a good indication of the collective opinion of the F1 fan base. I thought about that and was a little surprised there weren't any polls already, so here you go. I'd love to see what the board thinks.

Edited by AustinF1, 19 September 2022 - 21:11.

I think F1 should have space for 13 teams or 26 cars with the possibility of 1 car outfits.
The SL system should be for ladder series only
Super Formula and Indycar can be seen as 'endgame' series in a career, so moderate succes there should allow entry to F1.

No.

No more FIA grading systems.  If an F1 team wants to hire a driver from IndyCar or some other "endgame" series, and its metrics tell it that this is a driver it thinks can be successful, it should have the option of hiring that driver.

Regarding Andretti entering as a team: If they check all the boxes, they should be allowed in. If the FIA/FOM has serious questions they should openly air them so us fans know that the real issue is Andretti and not F1 and the current teams.

Regarding Herta: Indycar is probably ranked too low out of spite. The current SL are strict and to some extend they should stick to it but there should be room for dispensation. Set up a board of experts that can look at the situation and decide if an exception should be made or not.

I would like to see the rule saying you have to qualify within 107% of the fastest time, tightened to (say) 103%. Then allow any driver and any team to enter.

I think F1 should have space for 13 teams or 26 cars with the possibility of 1 car outfits.

Even better, I think F1 should have a separate pit stall for each car, ala Indycar. Oh, and have enough pit space for 28 cars.

FYI, upon further consideration I elminated the 'Don't care' options on both polls. I don't know if the 3 of you who voted for that option can re-cast your votes. If not, my apologies!

I like the super licence system. Since its introduction we haven't had any drivers that were incompetent or down right dangerous. Without it we'd have a grid full of the kids of billionaires, sure we've got a couple already but at least they have had to earn the super licence points to get there.

Having said that Indycar divers should definitely be on a points scoring par with F2, its a high level competitive series with pro-drivers being tested on a variety of good tracks. There are more than three or four drivers currently in Indycar  who could do a good job in F1 and the points should reflect that.

I voted Yes and No. I'd like to see a revised super licence points system but not allowances for Indycar drivers.

Edited by WonderWoman61, 19 September 2022 - 21:54.

I voted Yes and No. I'd like to see a revised super licence points system but not allowances for Indycar drivers.

Edited by noikeee, 19 September 2022 - 22:36.

Yeah
It shouldn’t be about “indycar” it should be about accomplishment.
Jp

I think it should be more about competence. If you've done a couple of seasons in a fast single-seater car in a competitive series like the FIA F3 championship, and if your lap times are consistently on par with the best drivers in the series on a variety of circuits, and if you don't have to visit the stewards' office every other weekend to explain your erratic and dangerous driving, then I think you should be qualified for a super licence. Of course Colton Herta should be qualified!

Kind of makes you wonder does F1 really want to make itself more appealing to the Americans or not? Or is there a limit as to how far they're willing to go and the Andretti and Herta situations would both be a step too far?

Indeed it does. My theory is that they are relying too much on the potential effect of DTS in terms of raising fan awareness in the US, which is a miscalculation imho. I also believe they're miscalculating how much of an effect DTS is actually having. DTS is helping, but imho what's helping them much more is the pent-up demand caused by covid. There were no GPs in North or South America in 2020, and no Canadian GP in 2020 or 2021. The 2021 USGP was the first GP in North or South America since 2019, and didn't have the problem of the Canadian GP pulling any of the USGP crowd to Montreal. That great 2021 COTA crowd  was the result of 2 years of ticket sales, with lots of people carrying over their cancelled 2020 tickets to 2021. We've been seeing massive, record crowds since covid at several races in countries that already have huge F1 fan bases and native drivers in the series, like Spain, Mexico City, Montreal, Melbourne, etc. Netflix is surely having relatively little effect in those countries. And the Netflix crowd of casual fans is likely very transient and fickle imho. Might not be too wise to take that growth for granted moving forward. 

Edited by AustinF1, 20 September 2022 - 15:26.

Yes they should let Andretti in.  Obstructing them is just protecting the franchisees, therefore no surprise the likes or Horner and Wolff dancing to Domenicalli's tune.

And no to the second one, although they should review the points awarded to the lower positions of the Indycar championship.  But much like blocking Andretti, there is protectionism behind the lesser points given the Indycar, as they want to ensure the path to F1 is through their own feeder series.

^Ditto. 

Andretti had the 200 million. He played by their rules and then the goal post were mysteriously moved (well not so mysteriously, but you get the point....).  If F1 is a closed shop, they should lead with that. Say you are afraid of competition. Own your shame.  Porsche and Audi shouldn't be welcomed either. Don't pretend to be an open competition and then do a 180 when they come knocking. 

As for Colton....if he wants to get to F1, it should be easy enough for him to get there for '24.  One can understand that a private organization has a SL system which treats FIA series preferentially. Annoying, but it's the same for everyone. To ask the FIA to pick and choose drivers without regard for the SL terms is the same thing the FOM is doing by ignoring Andretti while welcoming Audi/Porsche. If we don't like the latter, we cannot support the former. 

Edited by ARTGP, 20 September 2022 - 00:23.

Shame on these two who think Andretti shouldn't be allowed in F1

Like many of you, I've read a lot here about the Colton Herta and Andretti Autosport problems. Someone brought up the point today that just because some people post one way or the other, it's not really a good indication of the collective opinion of the F1 fan base. I thought about that and was a little surprised there weren't any polls already, so here you go. I'd love to see what the board thinks.

By saying,

'Should the FIA make SL allowances for drivers in other high-profile series like IndyCar and others?'

the poll is not asking whether the relative numbers of points awarded should be changed going forward, but rather whether the FIA should retrospectively bypass the points requirement and grant SLs when they see fit for qualitative reasons - correct?

Drivers such as Herta elected to compete in US racing series knowing that those series paid fewer SL points than other series did. It might make sense for the FIA to change the relative weightings of various series, but in Herta's case he knew the rules going in. Regardless of how talented he may be, it is not clear why the rules should be bypassed to accommodate him - it's not like he's been treated unfairly here.

Whether the relative numbers of points awarded for different series should be adjusted is a separate question.

I think it should be more about competence.!

Yes, Andretti should be allowed entry. No, allowances shouldn't be necessary: a functioning super licence system that values IndyCar and Super Formula properly would be entirely sufficient.

The top level competition shoud have the top racing company competitor from USA, for sure.

As of Herta, I do think that FIA need to reposition Indy as a whole.

Andretti should be allowed to join, in the current concorde agreement upon payment of the 200 million. However I think that 200 million is an absurd entry barrier and should be removed or substantially lowered.

It's a proven name. Whilst any new team may not be able to compete at the front for at least a decade that shouldn't be the yard stick.

The same for the SL. As I have pleaded before the SL system should only be a safeguard to get drivers that are capable of handling an F1 car at speed in a safe manner and are not unsafely slow.

Anyone driving in IndyCar and scoring good points or even winning should be automatically allowed in.

Same for Super Formula and the high profile sportscar championships.

If new team have a good resources and will not be another White Ferrari or Pink Mercedes - why not. 

About second question. SL system not preventing best drivers from any series. So answer - no. 

Edited by JvsKVB77, 20 September 2022 - 07:20.

No.
No more FIA grading systems. If an F1 team wants to hire a driver from IndyCar or some other "endgame" series, and its metrics tell it that this is a driver it thinks can be successful, it should have the option of hiring that driver.

If we start letting letting American teams and drivers into F1 that’s only going to lead to fake marinas trackside, giant Pirelli cowboy hats on the podium and racing past a fake Eiffel Tower…

That’s setting the bar too low.
There’s enough ’meh’ in F1 already
Jp

And that's without importing more from Indycars.....

Yes to Andretti (or anyone else with a sensible proposition) entering.

Yes to reviewing the SL points allocations, but NO to making special exceptions for somebody's current favourite squeeze.

Exactly this. The SL point system should be for inexperienced youngsters still climbing the ladder, and the standard shouldn't just be "can they handle an F1 car safely". It should be, "will they be a competitive driver". With only 20 seats, there shouldn't be room for slow drivers to keep paying their way onto the grid. It makes a mockery of limiting the series to only 20 cars for supposed quality over quantity.

I disagree. I don't think the system should lead to a safeguard on competitiveness. That is what the teams themselves should do.

In fact forcing drivers through a certain ladder, that is extremely expensive to get through, only stimulates the fact that only those who are able to afford it will be coming through.

That’s setting the bar too low.
There’s enough ’meh’ in F1 already
Jp

I disagree. I don't think the system should lead to a safeguard on competitiveness. That is what the teams themselves should do.
In fact forcing drivers through a certain ladder, that is extremely expensive to get through, only stimulates the fact that only those who are able to afford it will be coming through.

F1, if a pinnacle, should be about assembling the best drivers, regardless of the greasy pole that got them there.

I really don't understand this love for the cartel aspects of the sport.

It's Simple.  F1 wants American money, just not Americans.

Edited by GlenWatkins, 20 September 2022 - 09:11.

This!! Maybe the driver placed last in the WDC is relegated every year? And replaced by the F2 champion.

It would make sense to do that considering the F2 champion can't defend their title. Which is a whole seperate amount of stupidity.

If we start letting letting American teams and drivers into F1 that’s only going to lead to fake marinas trackside, giant Pirelli cowboy hats on the podium and racing past a fake Eiffel Tower…

Assuming there isn't some major problem with the Andretti Global entry that we are unaware of....it should be permitted. Andretti has jumped through all the hoops, complied with all the entry criteria (which are already artificially difficult) and yet seems to be met with immovable opposition from the teams - who should have zero influence on the matter. Pay the entry fee, complete the entry requirements, you get in. 

Superlicence and people in Colton Herta's situation.... There is no perfect set of "points criteria". There's always going to be someone who slips through the net due to getting involved in someone else's crash and losing a placing in a title race, or just not competing in the series that the FIA happens to fancy this time round. There are plenty of worthy drivers who don't qualify automatically according to the points system. Which is why, in the past. the FIA could issue a SL to those who didn't meet the automatic criteria...at their discretion. 

I think there needs to be a good look at what the SL is supposed to achieve. it is NOT NOT NOT NOT supposed to ensure that all holders are competitive. I cannot stress that enough. That was never the purpose of the SL. It's there to keep drivers who are dangerously slow, dangerously erratic or woefully under-prepared/inexperienced from racing in what is still the most complex and skilled motor racing series in the world. It sets a minimum standard, a bar which drivers need to jump over....and once they've achieved that....it is up to the teams to decide who they want. Latifi has a superlicense. He's not a danger on track. He's also not competitive, especially this year. Those facts are not mutually exclusive. Get over it. He'd easily pass if the 107% rule were active, which itself was a tightening of the old 110% rule used in sportscars. 

What is needed is recognition that the points need changing *immediately* and that there will be circumstances - no matter what the points system is - where someone worthy misses out. So you have discretion to award a SL to someone who doesn't quite match the prescribed jellymold. That used to be possible....is it not still?

And yes....the view that "the points system needs changing because it's wrong but meanwhile should be observed without exception" is...quite frankly...ludicrous.

I disagree. I don't think the system should lead to a safeguard on competitiveness. That is what the teams themselves should do.

 

But they almost never doing that if they not big teams.

If we start letting letting American teams and drivers into F1 that’s only going to lead to fake marinas trackside, giant Pirelli cowboy hats on the podium and racing past a fake Eiffel Tower…

Edited by TomNokoe, 20 September 2022 - 11:16.

It's Simple.  F1 wants American money, just not Americans.

Bingeaux.

Indeed it does. My theory is that they are relying too much on the potential effect of DTS terms of raising fan awareness in the US, which is a miscalculation imho. I also believe they're miscalculating how much of an effect DTS is actually having. DTS is helping, but imho what's helping them even more is the pent-up demand caused by covid. There were no GPs in North or South America in 2020, and no Canadian GP in 2020 or 2021. That great crowd COTA had last year was the result of 2 years of ticket sales, with lots of people carrying over their cancelled 2020 tickets to 2021. We've been seeing massive, record crowds since covid at several races in countries that already have huge F1 fan bases and native drivers in the series, like Spain, Mexico City, Montreal, Melbourne, etc. Netflix is surely having relatively little effect in those countries. And the Netflix crowd of casual fans is likely very transient and fickle imho. Might not be too wise to take that growth for granted moving forward. 

There is a chunk of DTS viewers, what % I don't know, who do not watch the races at all.  They wait to watch the DTS soap-opera, not the actual sport.

People keep saying the SL is just there to set a bar for "safety" only, except, why does it reward certain championship winners more than others?

If it was just about showing competence in a high powered open wheeler, then an experienced IndyCar race winner should not have an issue getting one. All they should have to do then is drive a current F1 car for 1 race distance, as it used to be.

Because it's broken. The FIA skewed the system recently to give extra emphasis to their own junior formulae ladder....greedy bastards. 

abso-effing-lutely an experienced IndyCar driver should have no issue getting a SL. That's what the vast majority of us have been saying for the last few weeks. 

Because it's broken. The FIA skewed the system recently to give extra emphasis to their own junior formulae ladder....greedy bastards. 

 

abso-effing-lutely an experienced IndyCar driver should have no issue getting a SL. That's what the vast majority of us have been saying for the last few weeks. 

Exactly. The FIA should have no say in who would theoretically be "competitive enough" to drive in F1.

It's their business to uphold safety standards and sporting regulation. Not to be a young drivers academy. That's also where they have a big conflict of interest regarding the difference between their own "ladder" formulae and the other racing classes.

The teams should be able to select based on their own scouting / academies, as long as they are not a hazard on track and will most likely be able to qualify within the set regulations. Yes some pay drivers will make it through, but the same thing is happening now with daddies or companies buying competitive seats in F3 and F2.

Andretti = Yes

Herta = No

SL License revamp to up Indycar points - absolutely!

Exactly. The FIA should have no say in who would theoretically be "competitive enough" to drive in F1.
It's their business to uphold safety standards and sporting regulation. Not to be a young drivers academy. That's also where they have a big conflict of interest regarding the difference between their own "ladder" formulae and the other racing classes.

The teams should be able to select based on their own scouting / academies, as long as they are not a hazard on track and will most likely be able to qualify within the set regulations. Yes some pay drivers will make it through, but the same thing is happening now with daddies or companies buying competitive seats in F3 and F2.

The teams can't be trusted, there has to be some sort of standards enforced. And as its an FIA event they do have the right to dictate the standards.