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Honda to Partner with Aston Martin in F1 from 2026


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#1 Joseki

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 09:03

Source: https://www.gazzetta...-dal-2026.shtml

Aston Martin will be supplied by Honda from 2026 to 2030.

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#2 kosmos

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 09:34

Probably it won't happen but it will be poetical if Alonso stays around and wins at least one race with a Honda engine.



#3 Goron3

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 09:41

The V6TH era started with only 3 PU manufacturers. 2026 will start with SIX.

 

Excellent news.



#4 Brod

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 09:50

Probably it won't happen but it will be poetical if Alonso stays around and wins at least one race with a Honda engine.

 

I really hope AM is able to build another great car next year so Alonso is kinda forced to stay around a little longer   ;)



#5 Myrvold

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 10:22

The V6TH era started with only 3 PU manufacturers. 2026 will start with SIX.

 

Excellent news.

 

6.5 if Andretti get's in with the rebadged Renault-Alpine engine!



#6 jcbc3

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 10:28

The Rcae 12 days ago

 



#7 Myrvold

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 10:40

2026 will be the first time in almost 20 seasons that the Silverstone-team have to make every part of the car themselves then? I might be wrong, but when they started buying Mercedes engines and gear box, they also used rear suspension etc?



#8 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 10:51

6.5 if Andretti get's in with the rebadged Renault-Alpine engine!

Not sure a rebranded PU should be counted as a manufacture?

#9 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:25

Honda barely made it to the end of the driveway before turning round and coming back. At least they’re coming back.

Will this have any relation to the engine currently run by Red Bull? Totally new I suspect.

#10 Nova

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:25

Happy to see Honda back in F1, if that is the case, but man they are one of a kind in dropping the ball. Dropping a multi championship winning car and replacing it with an also ran.



#11 Myrvold

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:31

Not sure a rebranded PU should be counted as a manufacture?

 

Isn't the idea that they will make their own, but start out with a rebranding? And they would pay for it.

 

It's why I counted it as a 0.5.

I do wonder what number of engine manufacturers people would say it was in 1998 and 1999 :p



#12 WouterF1

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:31

 

The deal will be officially announced in the night from Tuesday to Wednesday (CEST time)

 

during a Honda press conference that has already been announced.

 



#13 Anja

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:38

The V6TH era started with only 3 PU manufacturers. 2026 will start with SIX.

 

Excellent news.

 

It just begs for more teams, doesn't it? If only we had some interested parties...



#14 kumo7

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:42

If true, this is silly news. Honda should go it alone. 



#15 Myrvold

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:45

If true, this is silly news. Honda should go it alone. 

 

Why? At the rate Honda pulls out of F1, it's just a positive that they don't have their own team. Better to have team that exists solely for racing and then use Honda PU's instead. Then they just have to find a new supplier when Honda pulls out in a few years. 



#16 wj_gibson

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:52

Honda barely made it to the end of the driveway before turning round and coming back. At least they’re coming back.

Will this have any relation to the engine currently run by Red Bull? Totally new I suspect.

Don’t RBR now have the IP rights to the engine, meaning that Honda has to design a new one from scratch?



#17 Joseki

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:55

Don’t RBR now have the IP rights to the engine, meaning that Honda has to design a new one from scratch?

 

We don't know the details of the deal and also Honda designed that engine, RBR can't reset the brains of the people who designed it.



#18 Spillage

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 11:58

I take it Alonso isn't getting a contract beyond 2025 then :D



#19 Goron3

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:06

Don’t RBR now have the IP rights to the engine, meaning that Honda has to design a new one from scratch?


No, it's a Honda PU with Honda IP. RBPT is just a badge.

The PU being made from scratch is the RBPT one, made in Milton Keynes.

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#20 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:07

Still mental that Redbull have ditched Honda

#21 Anja

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:17

Still mental that Redbull have ditched Honda

 

Even more mental the other way around I'd say. 



#22 Goron3

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:18

Still mental that Redbull have ditched Honda

In fairness, it was Honda that 'left', and it forced Red Bull to make a decision.

 

RBPT is too far along for RBR to go back to Honda for 2026.

 

So now we've got:

  • RBR being powered by a brand new PU for 2026, by a company that has never even produced a single engine in its history. The first working PU they will produce will be the one they they roll out into testing in 2026.
  • Honda now starting a new PU project in the Sakura factory (which has been scaled down significantly since 2021) with a team they've never worked with before.


#23 JHSingo

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:24

Honda is the most indecisive manufacturer ever when it comes to racing in F1. They only left two minutes' ago. 

 

Still, I suppose it means they'll probably be leaving again by 2030 or so. 



#24 onewingedangel

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:27

2026 will be the first time in almost 20 seasons that the Silverstone-team have to make every part of the car themselves then? I might be wrong, but when they started buying Mercedes engines and gear box, they also used rear suspension etc?


Yes, they took the McLaren gearbox, hydraulics and rear suspension from the engine switch in 2009 for the remainder of the V8 era before switching to a similar arrangement with the works Mercedes team for the V6T.

Edited by onewingedangel, 23 May 2023 - 12:27.


#25 babbel

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:43

 

In fairness, it was Honda that 'left', and it forced Red Bull to make a decision.

 

RBPT is too far along for RBR to go back to Honda for 2026.

 

So now we've got:

  • RBR being powered by a brand new PU for 2026, by a company that has never even produced a single engine in its history. The first working PU they will produce will be the one they they roll out into testing in 2026.
  • Honda now starting a new PU project in the Sakura factory (which has been scaled down significantly since 2021) with a team they've never worked with before.

 

 

They did work with Jordan in 2001/2002 but yeah... long time ago



#26 Clatter

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:45

Don’t RBR now have the IP rights to the engine, meaning that Honda has to design a new one from scratch?


All reports are that the IP still resides with Honda, and that RB are starting from scratch. If they were able to use the IP, then they would not be able to present themselves as a new manufacturer.

#27 Lennat

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:45

Not sure a rebranded PU should be counted as a manufacture?

 


I guess it't not completely set in stone, but the way I see it:

 

Rebadging an engine: Does not count at all, it's just a name. Tag Heuer has never been an actual engine manufacturer!

 

Manufacturer sponsoring/collaborating with a team, like Alfa Romeo: It generally counts for more than just badging an engine, but I still consider Alfa a sponsor and not a manufacturer. It will depend a bit on the level of involvement, but still...

 

A hypothetical scenario where a car manufacturer outright OWNS a team, but buys a different engine: I think I would KIND OF accept this as a manufacturer, but not fully. Road cars share engines across manufacturers quite often, and we don't complain too much about that, so... However, I still can't help feeling that buying someone else's engine in F1 as a manufacturer is somewhat boring, lazy and uninspiring.


Edited by Lennat, 23 May 2023 - 12:45.


#28 Clatter

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 12:48

Still mental that Redbull have ditched Honda


All set in motion by Honda saying they were leaving the sport. RB took the brave decision to make their own engine, and were well down that path before honda decided they wanted to stay afterall.

#29 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 13:41

Isn't the idea that they will make their own, but start out with a rebranding? And they would pay for it.

It's why I counted it as a 0.5.
I do wonder what number of engine manufacturers people would say it was in 1998 and 1999 :p

Technically in my opinion none of the rebranded ones should count.

Not sure when a rebrand counts as a 0.5, just paying to have your name on doesn’t count surely? In fact I’m surprised the rules even allow that?

#30 Afterburner

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 14:00

Aston Martin-Honda doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue, but it’s still the best move they could make with the RBR reunion impossible. Apart from RBR, Aston Martin is the best-performing non-works team with the best trajectory for the coming years given they have one of the newest facilities. McLaren, Haas, Alfa Romeo, Alpha Tauri, and Williams all look lost this year.

 

I would love to hear that it’s a works team announcement but there’s like 0.01% chance of that happening given Stroll’s investment in not only Aston Martin the F1 team but also Aston Martin the car company.



#31 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 14:58

Perhaps stroll will sign a deal for Honda to produce the engines for the road cars as well?

#32 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 15:14

Not sure a rebranded PU should be counted as a manufacture?

 

Petronas

Playlife

Supertech

Asiatech

Megatron

Fondmetal

Sauber

Mechachrome

Osella

 

May argue that it should.



#33 kumo7

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 16:32

Why? At the rate Honda pulls out of F1, it's just a positive that they don't have their own team. Better to have team that exists solely for racing and then use Honda PU's instead. Then they just have to find a new supplier when Honda pulls out in a few years.


As a business model, teaming up with an existing team can give Honda what it need.
But in terms of a technical project that Honda seeks, it does not. With aero plus carbon chassis Honda could develop a new concept of constructing a road going car. Carbon fiber could been more integrated with road going cars, with its lighter performance it will certainly be more efficient with its energy use.
Aero can bring more fuel efficiency into a road going model as a flat and smooth bottom plus diffuser will make a car run smoother.

In short it could have good reason to go racing. The difference with Honda and Toyota being Toyota finally managed to become the championship race car constructor with WEC, while Honda still talks about Soichiro’s legacy. IMHO Honda needs up its game if it were to survive through the 21st century.


Edited by kumo7, 24 May 2023 - 11:43.


#34 FNG

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 16:42

Perhaps stroll will sign a deal for Honda to produce the engines for the road cars as well?

 

I thought of this as well. But a somewhat "prestige" brand with Honda engines in the back doesn't exactly scream luxury. And I am well aware Honda make magnificent engines and the AM road cars would be no lesser for it. But it's perception. I think it wouldn't look good for the AM road brand. But what do I know



#35 EvilPhil II

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:01

I thought of this as well. But a somewhat "prestige" brand with Honda engines in the back doesn't exactly scream luxury. And I am well aware Honda make magnificent engines and the AM road cars would be no lesser for it. But it's perception. I think it wouldn't look good for the AM road brand. But what do I know

 

I feel exactly the same way.  However, did you know that Mercedes use a Renault diesel engine, also used by Dacia and Nissan? That Lotus use engines from Toyota? and that BMW use engines (arguably) from Peugeot? 



#36 Myrvold

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:03

Technically in my opinion none of the rebranded ones should count.

Not sure when a rebrand counts as a 0.5, just paying to have your name on doesn’t count surely? In fact I’m surprised the rules even allow that?

 

Not as a engine manufacturer, but a manufacturer that pays to be there, must be some kind of manufacturer, right? :p



#37 FNG

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:03

I feel exactly the same way.  However, did you know that Mercedes use a Renault diesel engine, also used by Dacia and Nissan? That Lotus use engines from Toyota? and that BMW use engines (arguably) from Peugeot? 

 The Lotus Toyota was one of the first that came to mind as well. We shall see, I'm still not sure it would be good for the AM road car brand



#38 Myrvold

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:10

Petronas
Playlife
Supertech
Asiatech
Megatron
Fondmetal
Sauber
Mechachrome
Osella
 
May argue that it should.

 
Ah, Ԁ˥∀⅄˥IℲE! 

That's why I chose 1998 and 1999. One thing is the "Petronas" engines, which was re-badged Ferrari-engines from the last year. But Playlife was the exact same engine as the Mechachrome in 1998. Mechachrome got changed to Supertec by Flavio Briatore for 1999 - but it was still the Mechachrome engines. Benetton still badged them as Playlife though, but there was no difference at all.

 

At least when Minardi had their Ford EDM engines in 1995 that one was a bit different from the other ED-engines. Larousse had a deal for Ford ED engines, but never got to the grid in 1995. Simtek had a deal for the engines as well, Ford EDB for them. Pacific Lotus signed a deal and got Ford EDC, while the last ones to use the Ford ED engines was Forti and they got Ford EDD. Based on this, Minardi would've had Ford EDE, however they got Magnet Marelli to develop an own engine management system to get some more power out of the engine, and thus it was called Ford EDM.

Fancy system - just go to the next letter in the alphabet for each customer :p



#39 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:13

Petronas

Playlife

Supertech

Asiatech

Megatron

Fondmetal

Sauber

Mechachrome

Osella

 

May argue that it should.

 

There are different cases going on there. Mecachrome for example, was the tuning company that Renault used to built their engines, and then continued to supply Williams and Benetton after Renault withdrew. Then cases like Petronas were simple badging exercises with no actual involvement in the engine at all. When did Sauber badge their F1 engines?



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#40 Nathan

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:14

Don’t RBR now have the IP rights to the engine, meaning that Honda has to design a new one from scratch?

 

Honda retains ownership of the Honda PU.   RBR only leases.  Both sides have publicly said this.  RBT's engine will be their own.  We should also remember much of the poached senior staff came from Mercedes.


Edited by Nathan, 23 May 2023 - 17:16.


#41 Myrvold

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:15

There are different cases going on there. Mecachrome for example, was the tuning company that Renault used to built their engines, and then continued to supply Williams and Benetton after Renault withdrew. Then cases like Petronas were simple badging exercises with no actual involvement in the engine at all. When did Sauber badge their F1 engines?

 

1993.

Mercedes didn't want their name on it, so the car carried "concept by Mercedes-Benz" but the engines was called Sauber. However, both the 1993 Sauber and 1994 Mercedes was Ilmor-engines.


Edited by Myrvold, 23 May 2023 - 17:16.


#42 Fastcake

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:29

Honda's existence in Formula One should be used as a case study against corporate short-termism.



#43 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:36

1993.

Mercedes didn't want their name on it, so the car carried "concept by Mercedes-Benz" but the engines was called Sauber. However, both the 1993 Sauber and 1994 Mercedes was Ilmor-engines.

 

I've always seen their cars listed as Sauber-Ilmor in 1993.



#44 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 17:51

There are different cases going on there. Mecachrome for example, was the tuning company that Renault used to built their engines, and then continued to supply Williams and Benetton after Renault withdrew. Then cases like Petronas were simple badging exercises with no actual involvement in the engine at all. When did Sauber badge their F1 engines?

 

Point was those engines were very much badged of actual manufacturers, should therefore not be counted - Which they all were.
 
Sauber 1993
Wikipedia "..Power was provided by a Sauber-branded 3.5-litre V10 built by Ilmor in partnership with Mercedes... ...The engines were re-branded in 1994 to reflect the partnership...."
 
Edit to add - Just checked formula1.com, who show Sauber as just Sauber, were other teams are Team + Engine, except Ferrari who are also only Ferrari - To me read as the engine being registered with the FIA as 'Sauber'
 
Sauber-1993.jpg

Edited by KWSN - DSM, 23 May 2023 - 17:56.


#45 eibyyz

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 18:55

Nothing is new:  https://www.reddit.c..._hyundai_badge/



#46 Myrvold

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 19:40

I've always seen their cars listed as Sauber-Ilmor in 1993.

 
I managed to drag up a couple of old Autosport scans - which may (or may not) be better than a wikipedia-link.
 
irVv5Gv.png

 

In case pictures doesn't show up: Picture 1

 
SnqFdZ4.jpg

 

Aand Picture 2


Edited by Myrvold, 23 May 2023 - 19:41.


#47 Ferrim

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 19:53

And that 7th & 8th, famous for the collision at the end of the race, was Minardi's best result at Monza. Faenza team never scored points there until a certain German driver won his first race... :)

/off-topic

#48 loki

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 19:55

Hopefully Torger and Whinger Spice will find this combination “adds value”… :rolleyes:



#49 Tiakumosan

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 19:57

New gearbox? That must have been a 10 places grid penalty! 🤪

#50 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 May 2023 - 20:18

 
I managed to drag up a couple of old Autosport scans - which may (or may not) be better than a wikipedia-link.
 

 

I don't know where I got the impression from. It's just how I've always thought of them.