'Autocourse' 'Top-Tens'
#51
Posted 03 April 2007 - 12:53
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#52
Posted 03 April 2007 - 13:04
Originally posted by Vanwall
Jacky Ickx.
I think that maybe I was referring to his sister, but she was still probably better than Webber.
#53
Posted 02 January 2008 - 10:43
Originally posted by ensign14
...if Alan Henry's choosing again it'll prolly be the top 10 in the title, in a slightly different order... :
Autocourse's top 10 for 2007:
1. Lewis Hamilton (+1)
2. Kimi Räikönnen (-1)
3. Fernando Alonso (=)
4. Felipe Massa (=)
5. Nick Heidfeld (=)
6. Heikki Kovalainen (+1)
7. Robert Kubica (-1)
8. Nico Rosberg (+1)
9. Mark Webber (+3)
10. Jenson Button (+5)
So I wasn't far off. Especially as I assume Vettel was not included as he only did half a season which makes Button +4.
Can one of our authors ask Henry if he really thought no-one could have done a better job than Massa, for example, or did he just run out of time or something? There's a rank lack of imagination there. No consideration for Sutil? The SAguris? Even the inclusion of Button might be due to national tendencies...
#54
Posted 02 January 2008 - 11:40
#55
Posted 02 January 2008 - 12:04
#56
Posted 02 January 2008 - 12:07
#57
Posted 02 January 2008 - 19:25
Arrived before Christmas... by post ;)Originally posted by petefenelon
I haven't even seen an Autocourse yet, in York, Leeds or Bradford...
Rob
#58
Posted 02 January 2008 - 19:49
#59
Posted 24 December 2008 - 10:55
2008
1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Felipe Massa
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Robert Kubica
5. Sebastian Vettel
6. Mark Webber
7. Jarno Trulli
8. Heikki Kovalainen
9. Kimi Raikkonen
10. Timo Glock
Kimi had a poor year (by his standards) but I would not have placed him down in 9th
Rob
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#60
Posted 24 December 2008 - 11:10
#61
Posted 24 December 2008 - 11:35
#62
Posted 24 December 2008 - 11:41
Kind regards
Phil
#63
Posted 24 December 2008 - 12:18
Originally posted by josh.lintz
1990:
1. Prost
2. Senna
3. Piquet
4. Mansell
5. Nannini
(from Autocourse 1990-91)
"In the past, it has been the custom of this annual not to to include drivers who have not completed the full season becasue of injury as potential Top Ten candidates. Leaving Nannini out of the list would be doing this Italian drive an enormous disservice, yet at the same time the fact that he has been rated so highly is in no way intended to be a sympathy vote."
6. Boutsen
7. Patrese
8. Berger
9. Alesi
10. Suzuki
This one created one problem for Autocourse one year later.
Once Senna found out that he wasn't rated first and why, he was so infuriated that he refused to write the foreword for the 1991/1992 edition about the season 1991 when he had become champion. If my memory is correct one of only a very few occasions since 1970 that the champion did not write the foreword.
henri
#64
Posted 24 December 2008 - 12:23
Originally posted by Henri Greuter
This one created one problem for Autocourse one year later.
Once Senna found out that he wasn't rated first and why, he was so infuriated that he refused to write the foreword for the 1991/1992 edition about the season 1991 when he had become champion. If my memory is correct one of only a very few occasions since 1970 that the champion did not write the foreword.
henri
I haven't looked, but did Hamilton get his dad to write this year's?
#65
Posted 24 December 2008 - 12:50
Originally posted by sterling49
Ironic that Ralf is not included in the list, but I believe he considered himself one of the top three drivers currently......
I never considered Ralf Schumacher was good enough to drive the transporter never mind the race car!
I agree with Simon Arron's rating of the younger Schumacher.
#66
Posted 24 December 2008 - 12:52
#67
Posted 24 December 2008 - 13:30
Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Ralf's greatest crime was being unpleasant, he was quite a decent racing driver.
That and being the younger brother of Michael Schumacher. Had he been Robert Shoemaker from Miles Keynes, he would be a much more popular driver, having the exact same results as the German version.
#68
Posted 24 December 2008 - 13:36
Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
Had he been Robert Shoemaker from Miles Keynes, he would be a much more popular driver...
I'd say that's going a bit too far, but Ross is right about his ability, at least while he was at Williams.
#69
Posted 24 December 2008 - 13:43
#70
Posted 24 December 2008 - 18:09
Once upon a time one's impressions of a driver's capabilities were coloured by looking back over a season in which each F1 driver had also shone, or flopped, in F2, Indy, sports, GT and saloon cars too... If one then sat down to write about X's position within the pecking order overall it would be darned difficult to filter out the 'background noise' of everything else he had achieved within your recent memory OTHER than in F1. Not for the first time, as the goal posts have been moved so proper perspectives have been obscured. This surely is why young shavers today trawl back through F1 statistics and cannot understand why some of us wax lyrical about great drivers who never won a World title, or who won only one or two GPs. The view is too narrow today because the reality provides so little width!
DCN
#71
Posted 24 December 2008 - 18:28
Never a truer word etc etcOriginally posted by Doug Nye
This surely is why young shavers today trawl back through F1 statistics and cannot understand why some of us wax lyrical about great drivers who never won a World title, or who won only one or two GPs. The view is too narrow, today because the reality provides so little width!
#72
Posted 24 December 2008 - 18:41
#73
Posted 24 December 2008 - 19:36
Originally posted by kayemod
If we consider just F1, there's so little between the cars in percentage terms from the front of the grid to the back, largely due to deliberate playing field levelling of cars, engines, tracks etc by rulemakers, that there's virtually no possibility for a driver to overcome his car's deficiencies to win on talent alone. ....but technological progress and constant meddling with the rules for dubious commercial reasons, mean that the chances of anything like that happening today are zero, and that's everyone's loss.
In essence, this an as good an indictment of the current formula one scene as you could imagine. I would differ with the analysis as to the reasons why formula one is a shambles and largely an irrelevant series to me, but that would be only to quibble, not disagree.
Bah, and humbug in my opinion.
#74
Posted 24 December 2008 - 20:30
No, that was yet another demonstration of how much etc etcOriginally posted by kayemod
that's how he showed all and sundry by just how much he outclassed most of his peers
Your comment supports what Doug said
But I do agree about the artificial closeness of the fields these days
#75
Posted 24 December 2008 - 20:38
DCN
#76
Posted 25 December 2008 - 16:22
Originally posted by Doug Nye
the mindset of the 'Autocourse' top-ten selectors over the years
Can anyone name the selectors over the years?
#77
Posted 25 December 2008 - 17:31
#78
Posted 25 December 2008 - 18:36
Originally posted by P. Dron
Let's have a Top 10 of them.
Why not?
#79
Posted 25 December 2008 - 18:44
A valid observation, Doug, but I'd like to point out that the three writers chiefly responsible for this year's Autocourse are hardly young shavers.Originally posted by Doug Nye
This surely is why young shavers today trawl back through F1 statistics and cannot understand why some of us wax lyrical about great drivers who never won a world title, or who won only one or two GPs. The view is too narrow today because the reality provides so little width!
Alan Henry, Mark Hughes and I have an aggregate age of 156...
Since its introduction in, I think, 1966, the top 10 has been the editor's prerogative - so you can blame AH for the last 20 or so.Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
Can anyone name the selectors over the years?
Mark and I had our own top 10s published elsewhere - and our opinions both differed from Alan's. Mine, in Motorsport News, ran as follows:
1 Robert Kubica
2= Lewis Hamilton & Felipe Massa
4 Fernando Alonso
5 Sebastian Vettel
6 Mark Webber
7 Kimi Räikkönen
8 Rubens Barrichello
9 Jarno Trulli
10 Timo Glock
I tried to assess performances in the context of the available equipment, but - as Doug correctly implied - such lists often owe much to a) spontaneity and b) the imprecise science of subjectivity.
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#80
Posted 25 December 2008 - 19:01
Originally posted by Simon Arron
1 Robert Kubica
2= Lewis Hamilton & Felipe Massa
4 Fernando Alonso
5 Sebastian Vettel
6 Mark Webber
7 Kimi Räikkönen
8 Rubens Barrichello
9 Jarno Trulli
10 Timo Glock
I tried to assess performances in the context of the available equipment, but - as Doug correctly implied - such lists often owe much to a) spontaneity and b) the imprecise science of subjectivity.
The interesting thing is the placing of Barri ahead of the Toyota drivers. I think that Glock deserves more credit, Hungary, Singapur, Brazil and Canada were excellent drives given the equipment, whereas Barri only impressed in England. However I agree with your top five, albeit in slightly different order.
#81
Posted 25 December 2008 - 19:18
Pass the port, and seasonal greetings to fellow curmudgeons.
#82
Posted 26 December 2008 - 07:54
My previous post was not intended as a trigger for debate, but it simply isn't the case that Barrichello shone 'only' at Silverstone. That's just an illusion created by circumstance.Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
Barrichello only impressed in England.
I spoke to him after qualifying in Shanghai, for instance, and he was adamant that the lap he'd just done was better than any he had managed throughout the whole of 2004's corresponding fixture, when he dominated the Chinese GP from pole. In the context of a Honda RA108, though, it translated to 13th on the grid.
And during the final two laps of the Brazilian GP, armed with the same Bridgestone intermediates used by all bar the Toyota duo, he was 2.516s and 1.964s quicker than any other driver (and 3.485s/3.145s swifter than Lewis Hamilton, whose need to press on was rather greater).
Honda endured a torrid campaign with an undeveloped car, but Barrichello never gave less than his best and, if you look below the surface, you'll find some engaging little cameos.
Apologies for straying away from the core subject. Here endeth the diversion.
#83
Posted 26 December 2008 - 18:45
#84
Posted 26 December 2008 - 18:51
Originally posted by Simon Arron
A valid observation, Doug, but I'd like to point out that the three writers chiefly responsible for this year's Autocourse are hardly young shavers.
Alan Henry, Mark Hughes and I have an aggregate age of 156...
Fully aware of the age situation where 'Autocourse' is concerned Simon - my butterfly mind merely wished to cover the fact that so many internet pundits who also hold forth simply don't understand (yet) how limited their baseline reference might be...
DCN
#85
Posted 31 December 2008 - 14:01
#86
Posted 31 December 2008 - 14:12
Originally posted by fullcourseyellow
I would like to know where Nick Heidfeld is. He had some very good drives this year, so how can Kovalainen be included and Heidfeld not. Ridiculous really!
The point is that these lists have always been the results of opinions formed by the editor or editorial staff and should be looked upon as such. Getting your panties in a wad over it is a complete waste of time.
#87
Posted 31 December 2008 - 14:18
Vettel, Webber and Rosberg drove works cars as well - and quite better ones than the Honda!Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
However, losing out to privateers like Vettel, Webber or Rosberg, doesn't display a big ability when you drive a works car.
In my book, there are no privateers in F1 since the FIA/FOCA days - only constructors.
#88
Posted 31 December 2008 - 14:25
That's why he got that injunction against you.Originally posted by fullcourseyellow
I would like to know where Nick Heidfeld is.
#89
Posted 31 December 2008 - 14:59
I know. It's just my opinion. :Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
The point is that these lists have always been the results of opinions formed by the editor or editorial staff and should be looked upon as such. Getting your panties in a wad over it is a complete waste of time.
#90
Posted 31 December 2008 - 16:54
A loser, then?Originally posted by fullcourseyellow
__________________
2nd Guess the Result 2007
2nd Guess the Grid 2003, 2004
3rd Guess the Grid 2006
2nd 10 Unusual Guesses 2004
2nd Atlas All-rounders 2004
Sorry, couldn't resist!;)
#91
Posted 03 March 2011 - 12:39
#92
Posted 03 March 2011 - 15:21
1. Jenson Button
2. Lewis Hamilton
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Mark Webber
5. Fernando Alonso
6. Rubens Barrichello
7. Robert Kubica
8. Nico Rosberg
9. Kimi Raikkonen
10. Jarno Trulli
2010
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Lewis Hamilton
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Mark Webber
5. Robert Kubica
6. Jenson Button
7. Nico Rosberg
8. Rubens Barrichello
9. Felipe Massa
10. Michael Schumacher
#93
Posted 16 December 2011 - 16:13
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Jenson Button
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Nico Rosberg
6. Mark Webber
7. Michael Schumacher
8. Paul di Resta
9. Adrian Sutil
10. Heikki Kovalainen
#94
Posted 16 December 2011 - 18:15
#95
Posted 16 December 2011 - 18:18
Good to see Kova in there...not often Autocourse look outside the obvious.
A TNF'r is involved in the selection and he knows his stuff
#96
Posted 16 December 2011 - 18:45
A TNF'r is involved in the selection and he knows his stuff
And guessed correctly by Malta's newest resident
PAR
#97
Posted 16 December 2011 - 20:06
I can almost hear some old farts groaning with the inevitable 'this isn't nostalia' but well done for being brave enough.
#98
Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:47
A TNF'r is involved in the selection and he knows his stuff
I notice no mention of John Cooper
#99
Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:11
1966
1. Clark
2. Surtees
3. Rindt
4. Stewart
5. Gurney
6. Brabham
7. Hulme
8. Hill
9. Bandini
10. McLaren
1967
1. Clark
2. Rindt
3. Stewart
4. Brabham
5. Hulme
6. Gurney
7. Surtees
8. Hill
9. McLaren
10. Amon
1968
1. Stewart
2. Rindt
3. Hill
4. Amon
5. Hulme
6. Surtees
7. Ickx
8. Gurney
9. Rodriguez
10. Siffert
1969
1. Stewart
2. Rindt
3. Ickx
4. Brabham
5. Hulme
6. Amon
7. Hill
8. McLaren
9. Siffert
10. Courage
1970
1. Stewart
2. Ickx
3. Regazzoni
4. Amon
5. Rodriguez
6. Brabham
7. Surtees
8. Hill
9. Cevert
10. Beltoise
1971
1. Stewart
2. Ickx
3. Regazzoni
4. Amon
5. Peterson
6. Cevert
7. Hulme
8. Fittipaldi
9. Schenken
10. Gethin
1972
1. Stewart
2. Fittipaldi
3. Ickx
4. Hulme
5. Hailwood
6. Revson
7. Peterson
8. Amon
9. Regazzoni
10. Reutemann
1973
1. Stewart
2. Peterson
3. Fittipaldi
4. Pace
5. Hulme
6. Hunt
7. Reutemann
8. Revson
9. Lauda
10. Scheckter
1974
1. Fittipaldi
2. Peterson
3. Reutemann
4. Scheckter
5. Lauda
6. Pace
7. Regazzoni
8. Hunt
9. Hailwood
10. Watson
1975
1 Niki Lauda
2 Emerson Fittipaldi
3 Ronnie Peterson
4 Jody Scheckter
5 James Hunt
6 Carlos Pace
7 Carlos Reutemann
8 Clay Regazzoni
9 Tony Brise
10 Jochen Mass
11 Tom Pryce
12 Jean-Pierre Jarier
1976
1 Niki Lauda
2 James Hunt
3 Patrick Depailler
4 Ronnie Peterson
5 Jody Scheckter
6 Mario Andretti
7 Jacques Lafitte
8 Carlos Pace
9 Clay Regazzoni
10 John Watson
1977
1 Niki Lauda
2 James Hunt
3 Mario Andretti
4 Jody Scheckter
5 John Watson
6 Gunnar Nilsson
7 Patrick Depailler
8 jacques Lafitte
9 Carlos Reutemann
10 Jochen Mass
1978
1 Niki Lauda
2 Mario Andretti
3 Carlos Reutemann
4 Alan Jones
5 Patrick Depailler
6 Jody Scheckter
7 Gilles Villeneuve
8 Jacques Lafitte
9 John Watson
10 Riccardo Patrese
1979
1 Alan Jones
2 Giles Villeneuve
3 Jody Scheckter
4 Jacques Lafitte
5 carlos Reutemann
6 Jean-Pierre Jabouille
7 Clay Regazzoni
8 Rene Arnoux
9 Nelson Piquet
10 Mario Andretti
1980
1 Alan Jones
2 Nelson Piquet
3 Gilles Villeneuve
4 Didier Pironi
5 Rene Arnoux
6 Jacques Lafitte
7 Jean-Pierre Jabouille
8 Carlos Reutemann
9 Elio de Angelis
10 Bruno Giacomelli
1981
1 Alan Jones
2 Alain Prost
3 Gilles Villeneuve
4 Nelson Piquet
5 Carlos Reutemann
6 Didier Pironi
7 Jacques Lafitte
8 John Watson
9 Rene Arnoux
10 Elio de Angelis
1982
1 -
2 Keke Rosberg
3 Alain Prost
4 Nelson Piquet
5 Niki Lauda
6 John Watson
7 Rene Arnoux
8 Michele Alboreto
9 Riccardo Patrese
10 Elio de Angelis
1983
1 Nelson Piquet
2 Alain Prost
3 Patrick Tambay
4 Rene Arnoux
5 Keke Rosberg
6 John Watson
7 Eddie Cheever
8 Derek Warwick
9 Niki Lauda
10 Andrea de Cesaris
1984
1 Alain Prost
2 Nelson Piquet
3 Niki Lauda
4 keke Rosberg
5 Elio de Angelis
6 Michele Alboreto
7 Derek Warwick
8 Ayrton Senna
9 Nigel Mansell
10 Patrick Tambay
1985
1 Alain Prost
2 Ayrton Senna
3 Keke Rosberg
4 Nelson Piquet
5 Michele Alboreto
6 Nigel Mansell
7 Niki Lauda
8 Elio de Angelis
9 Stefan Johansson
10 Thierry Boutsen
1986
1 Alain Prost
2 Nigel Mansell
3 Ayrton Senna
4 Nelson Piquet
5 Gerhard Berger
6 Stefan Johansson
7 Michele Alboreto
8 Keke Rosberg
9 Rene Arnoux
10 Riccardo Patrese
1987
1 Alain Prost
2 Nigel Mansell
3 Ayrton Senna
4 gerhard Berger
5 Nelson Piquet
6 Thierry Boutsen
7 Michele Alboreto
8 Stefan Johansson
9 Riccardo Patrese
10 Jonathan Palmer
1988
1 Ayrton Senna
2 Alain Prost
3 gerhard Berger
4 Nigel Mansell
5 Ivan Capelli
6 Thierry Boutsen
7 Alessandro Nannini
8 Michele Alboreto
9 Derek Warwick
10 Jonathan Palmer
1989
1 Nigel Mansell
2 Ayrton Senna
3 Alain Prost
4 Riccardo Patrese
5 Gerhard Berger
6 Thierry Boutsen
7 Alessandro Nannini
8 Alex Caffi
9 Derek Warwick
10 Pierluigi Martini
1990:
1. Prost
2. Senna
3. Piquet
4. Mansell
5. Nannini
6. Boutsen
7. Patrese
8. Berger
9. Alesi
10. Suzuki
1991
1 Senna
2 Mansell
3 Patrese
4 Prost
5 Berger
6 Piquet
7 Alesi
8 Martini
9 de Cesaris
10 Blundell
1992
1 Mansell
2 Senna
3 Schumacher
4 Berger
5 Patrese
6 Alesi
7 Brundle
8 Hakkinen
9 Herbert
10 Alboreto
1993
1 Senna
2 Prost
3 Schumacher
4 Alesi
5 Hill
6 Brundle
7 Fittipaldi
8 Berger
9 Blundell
10 Barrichello
1994
1 Hill
2 Schumacher
3 Berger
4 Hakkinen
5 Coulthard
6 Alesi
7 Katayama
8 Irvine
9 Barrichello
10 Frentzen
1995
1 Schumacher
2 Hill
3 Frentzen
4 Berger
5 Alesi
6 Coulthard
7 Herbert
8 Hakkinen
9 Irvine
10 Blundell
1996
1 Schumacher
2 Hill
3 Villeneuve
4 Hakkinen
5 Alesi
6 Berger
7 Coulthard
8 Panis
9 Irvine
10 Frentzen
1997
1 Villeneuve
2 M Schumacher
3 Hakkinen
4 Coulthard
5 Alesi
6 Frentzen
7 Fisichella
8 Barrichello
9 Irvine
10 Herbert
1998
1 M Schumacher
2 Hakkinen
3 Villeneuve
4 Irvine
5 Coulthard
6 Alesi
7 Hill
8 R Schumacher
9 Fisichella
10 Wurz
1999
1 Frentzen
2 Hakkinen
3 R Schumacher
4 Irvine
5 Barrichello
6 Coulthard
7 Villeneuve
8 Herbert
9 Fisichella
10 Trulli
2000
1 M Schumacher
2 Hakkinen
3 Villeneuve
4 Coulthard
5 Barrichello
6 Trulli
7 Button
8 Alesi
9 R Schumacher
10 Frentzen
2001
1 M Schumacher
2 Coulthard
3 Montoya
4 R Schumacher
5 Hakkinen
6 Barrichello
7 Heidfeld
8 Raikkonen
9 Fisichella
10 Trulli
2002
1st M.Schumacher
2nd Raikkonen
3rd Coulthard
4th Montoya
5th Barrichello
6th R.Schumacher
7th Fisichella
8th Villeneuve
9th Button
10th Irvine
2003
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Kimi Raikkonen
4. Juan Pablo Montoya
5. Rubens Barrichello
6. Ralf Schumacher
7. Mark Webber
8. David Coulthard
9. Jenson Button
10. Cristiano da Matt
2004
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Jenson Button
3. Kimi Raikkonen
4. Fernando Alonso
5. Rubens Barrichello
6. Juan Pablo Montoya
7. Jarno Trulli
8. Giancarlo Fisichella
9. Mark Webber
10. Takuma Sato
2005
1. Fernando Alonso
2. Kimi Raikkonen
3. Michael Schumacher
4. Juan Pablo Montoya
5. Giancarlo Fisichella
6. Nick Heidfeld
7. Jarno Trulli
8. Jenson Button
9. David Coulthard
10. Felipe Massa
2006.
1. Fernando Alonso
2, Michael Schumacher
3. Kimi Raikkonen
4. Jenson Button
5. Felipe Massa
6. Giancarlo Fisichella
7. Jarno Trulli
8. Ruben Barrichello
9. Nico Rosberg
10. David Coulthard
2007:
1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Kimi Räikönnen
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Felipe Massa
5. Nick Heidfeld
6. Heikki Kovalainen
7. Robert Kubica
8. Nico Rosberg
9. Mark Webber
10. Jenson Button
2008
1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Felipe Massa
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Robert Kubica
5. Sebastian Vettel
6. Mark Webber
7. Jarno Trulli
8. Heikki Kovalainen
9. Kimi Raikkonen
10. Timo Glock
2009
1. Jenson Button
2. Lewis Hamilton
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Mark Webber
5. Fernando Alonso
6. Rubens Barrichello
7. Robert Kubica
8. Nico Rosberg
9. Kimi Raikkonen
10. Jarno Trulli
2010
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Lewis Hamilton
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Mark Webber
5. Robert Kubica
6. Jenson Button
7. Nico Rosberg
8. Rubens Barrichello
9. Felipe Massa
10. Michael Schumacher
2011
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Jenson Button
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Nico Rosberg
6. Mark Webber
7. Michael Schumacher
8. Paul di Resta
9. Adrian Sutil
10. Heikki Kovalainen
Edited by eldougo, 17 December 2011 - 04:13.
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#100
Posted 17 September 2015 - 09:52
Would someone be kind enough to update us with the 2012-14 lists? Thanks