Why did Ickx join Brabham only to return to Ferrari after a year?

It's quite weird that young talent Jacky Ickx after completing a very succesfull full first season with Ferrari (winning the French GP in the rain) left for Brabham in '69. He became runner-up in the Brabham after Jackie Stewart's Tyrrell entered Matra but in '70 het returned to the Scuderia to be runner up again, after postumus Jochen Rindt in the Lotus this time. Why did Jacky Ickx switch teams ?

Jacky Ickx's early racing exploits marked him out as certainly a man to watch. He was racing Lotus Cortina saloon cars in his teens and scored his first F1 World Championship point at Monza in 1967 driving a Cooper-Maserati in the Italian Grand Prix.

The following year he joined Ferrari, scoring a dazzling wet weather victory in the French GP at Rouen-Les-Essarts and staying in contention for the Championship until he broke a leg practicing for the Canadian GP. For 1969 contractual considerations saw him switch to the Brabham F1 team in order to continue driving for the JW Gulf sportscar operation and he duly won the Le Mans 24-hour classic in one of the closest finishes ever seen at that event.

He went back to Ferrari for 1970 and stayed there until the middle of 1973 after which he switched to Team Lotus but the fire which had fueled Ickx's determination was definitely flickering by this stage and although he scored a sensational win in the 1974 non-title Brands Hatch Race of Champions he raced only intermittently after Lotus with Williams, Ensign and Ligier through until the end of 1979.

Jacky Ickx is my favourite driver ever together with Riccardo Patrese and Bernd Rosemeyer.

If I understand this correct, Jacky switched to Brabham in '69 because Enzo Ferrari wouldn't allow him to drive for another marque in sportscars ?

Ickx is one my very favorite drivers as well. He is quite charismatic, articulate and insightful. His career and contributions to the sport are ones that any driver would be proud of.

And yes... that's my understanding of the "contractual obligations".

Didn't Enzo Ferrari lose more drivers because of these obligations ?

In recently communicated with Jacky's brother via e-mail and he will be the next driver that I write a magazine article about at some point in the future. And if he is interested, he may be my next book subject because I know of no biographies on him that are in English and I am a huge admirer of his career. However, Jacky may well write his own biography because their father was a famous motor racing journalist.

Jacky Ickx was a strong supporter of the traditional circuits such as Spa, the Nurburgring and Rouen and he always went best on them. He resigned from the GPDA in the early 70s in protest against their campaigns against those circuits. I think it was these changes which caused him to lose interest in Grand Prix racing.

If the Ferrai had been more reliable early in the season, he could easily have been the 1970 world champion.

Jacky had to be the "luckiest" racer on the planet and one of the few who were invited back to Ferrari once he had left!!!

Not to mention brilliant in the rain...

It has been said that the wing-era didn't suit his finesse driving style. I imagine that had he been born ten years earlier, he would be considered right up there with Jim Clark and Juan Manuel Fangio as one of the greatest F1 drivers of all-time. He won quickly in F1 in just his ninth start. Certainly, he is the one of the greatest sports car drivers of all-time winning Le Mans six times and just about every other major sports car race.

Don't forget he had a top co-driver for most of those Le Mans victories...

His real leap to prominence came in the German GP where he ran the Matra F2 car and humbled 95% of the GP field.

He was also a lucky winner of the Bathurst 1000.

Jacky Ickx is by far the best sportscar driver ever. No one even comes near him. He is to sportscars what Eddy Merckx is to cycling, achieved everything and has a list of honour that is unbeatable.

Originally posted by Joe Fan
It has been said that the wing-era didn't suit his finesse driving style. I imagine that had he been born ten years earlier, he would be considered right up there with Jim Clark and Juan Manuel Fangio as one of the greatest F1 drivers of all-time. He won quickly in F1 in just his ninth start. Certainly, he is the one of the greatest sports car drivers of all-time winning Le Mans six times and just about every other major sports car race.

Well, he was almost an champion.

His main problem was that he wasn't stable (enough). He didn't see the importancy of the car tests.

1973 he gave up the 312B3 and all technical possibilities of Ferrari to join Lotus. He didn't foresee that Ferrari will become the absolutely front runner after leave the sport cars championship and concentrate to formula 1.

1970 he would become the WDC when he didn't been injured in Jarama early in the saison.

Originally posted by William Hunt
Jacky Ickx is by far the best sportscar driver ever. No one even comes near him. He is to sportscars what Eddy Merckx is to cycling, achieved everything and has a list of honour that is unbeatable.

Ahem! "By far"? "No one even comes near him"? Perhaps admirers of Pedro Rodriguez and Jo Siffert might take issue with that assertion. Not to mention that chap who won the '55 Mille Miglia and one or two other sports car races ... and Piero Taruffi, Tony Brooks, Derek Bell, Chris Amon ... and ...


Vanwall.

Originally posted by stavelot
Well, he was almost an champion.

His main problem was that he wasn't stable (enough). He didn't see the importancy of the car tests.

1973 he gave up the 312B3 and all technical possibilities of Ferrari to join Lotus. He didn't foresee that Ferrari will become the absolutely front runner after leave the sport cars championship and concentrate to formula 1.

1970 he would become the WDC when he didn't been injured in Jarama early in the saison.

stavelot, it seems you could be capable of adding more to this thread... you're Belgian, I guess?

He looked great in the Lotus, as I recall, and gave Ronnie reason to work harder.

Apart from Laffite in '79 , Ronnie was Jacky's only teammate that was faster than him. Although Amon also beat him a lot in 1968, but that was after all only Jacky's first full F1 season.

In his final season at Ligier he wasn't capable of getting near his teammate Laffite, but that was one year too much.

Originally posted by Vanwall


Ahem! "By far"? "No one even comes near him"? Perhaps admirers of Pedro Rodriguez and Jo Siffert might take issue with that assertion. Not to mention that chap who won the '55 Mille Miglia and one or two other sports car races ... and Piero Taruffi, Tony Brooks, Derek Bell, Chris Amon ... and ... Vanwall.

Vanwall, have a closer look at Jacky's sportscar achievements and U will undoubtedly agree. He has won Le Mans a record six times and his victories are so numerous that counting them would take all day, a bit like Eddy Merckx' cycling victories. No one comes even near such a palmares. Jacky even won the Paris - Dakar rally !

William - I appreciate your enthusiasm for Jacky - and I agree that he was a simply fantastic driver. But I come down firmly in line with Vanwall on this. Another name I would add to his list is Phil Hill. This takes nothing away from Jacky Ickx - in fact it just demonstrates how good he was to be named along with these others.

Ickx is clearly one of the greatest sportscar driver ever, but not THE greatest imho. Along with the names appropriately given by Vanwall and Mike, let's add Olivier Gendebien (Phil Hill's alter ego !), Lucien Bianchi, Henri Pescarolo or Jochen Mass. And what about Sir Stirling ?
Ickx's achievements in Le Mans for instance were great, bit he had the 'luck' of being the top driver of the best (when not only) factory team involved. Levegh's 1952 race at Le Mans is worth 3 of Ickx' wins ! Drivers like Umberto Maglioli, Masten Gregory, Hans Herrmann, Edgar Barth, Maurice Trintignant, Jo Bonnier, etc... do not have a record as impressive as Ickx' but they had MUCH more opposition to fight against than Ickx had for most of his sportscar career.

Whoops! Better include Dan Gurney before Barry Boor sees this thread...

Mike is so right, to include anyone on this list elevates their standing rather than depleting it. Phil Hill indeed showed his stuff in the Sports Car arena... then there was Peter Collins' drive in the '55 Targa to be considered, Fangio in the Mille Miglia with the steering tied together on one front wheel...

Jacky never raced at a time when such heroism was required or likely, but he sure did show some skill.

I think Jacky's success in sports cars and F1 prove what a great talent he was. I think there have been many great sports car drivers like Phil Hill, Masten Gregory, Dan Gurney, Stirling Moss, Archie Scott Brown, Hurley Hayward, Olivier Gendebien, Bob Bondurant, Derek Bell, Mark Dononue, Al Holbert, Brian Redmond, Pedro Rodriguez, Clemente Biondetti, Ken Miles, etc but Jacky stands above them all.

Pulled from another thread (Who's your favorite racing driver)

"I picked Jacky Ickx... as an individual who is as colorful a character as he is a racer - Endurance racing as a test of man and machine is my number 1 passion and holds the highest position in my mind for those tests.

He begins his career in racing in 1964. In 1967, he is European Champion in Formula 2 and begins to race in Formula One. He won 8 Formula One Grand Prix : France in 1968, Germany and Canada in 1969, Austria, Canada and Mexico in 1970, Holland in 1971 and finally Germany in 1972.

He resigned from Formula 1 in 1979, after being twice runner-up WDC in 1969 and in 1970.

However, he really shown in his endurance skills. Two titles of World champion, in 1982 and 1983. Six victories at the 24 hours of Le Mans, the most coveted of all endurance races (1969, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1981 and 1982). And the list keeps going, winner at :

24 hours of Francorchamps (1966)
1,000 km of Spa (1967, 1968, 1974, 1982 and 1983)
Cups of Spa (1969 and 1973)
1,000 km of Monthléry (1967)
6 hours of Watkins Glen (1968, 1972 and 1977)
12 hours of Sebring (1969 and 1972)
1,000 km of Monza (1972, 1973 and 1976)
1,000 km of Austria (1972)
1,000 km of Nurburgring (1973 and 1983)
1,000 km of Imola (1976)
6 hours of Mugello (1976 and 1985)
6 hours of Vallelunga (1976)
6 hours of Silverstone (1977 and 1978)
6 hours of Daytona (1972)
9 hours of Kyalami (1967, 1968, 1970 and 1982)
500 miles of Brands Hatch (1968)
1.000 km of Brands Hatch (1972, 1977 and 1982)
Champions Race at Brands Hatch (1974).
Ickx was also USA's Champion in Can Am.

In the '80s, he participated in the Paris-Dakar Rally. Winning what may be the most grueling event in motorsports in 1983.

Between 1967 and 1979, Jacky Ickx was 11 times winner of the Belgium Drivers Championship. He received in 1968, the national trophy of the sport's award. "


Like anything... there is a big difference between the "best" and your "favorite"...I know there are much better drivers, more gifted, more nerve, more natural talent, whatever... I respect greatly those men too... Ickx just seemed to embody all that was good in racing. Enthusiasm, talent, character, style, humor and a certain matter-of-factness about the fates involved in racing. Not to mention that record above.

When I attended the Shelby Collection Musuem event in Boulder, Colorado this past December, Carroll Shelby, Phil Hill and Bob Bondurant were on hand and gave a little speech towards the end of the event. Carroll Shelby said the he believes that Phil Hill was the greatest endurance racer of all-time. However, here is closer look at their record in the major sports car events:

Le Mans 24 Hours: Ickx 6 wins, P. Hill 3
Nurburgring 1000KM: both tied with 2 wins
Sebring 12 Hours: P.Hill 3, Ickx 2
Daytona 24 hours: both have won shortened versions of the event (Hill: Daytona 2000KM, Ickx: Daytona 6 Hours)

Originally posted by rdrcr
Ickx just seemed to embody all that was good in racing. Enthusiasm, talent, character, style, humor and a certain matter-of-factness about the fates involved in racing. Not to mention that record above.

Yes. I think rdrcr very much gets to the essentials here - a fine description of what makes Jacky Ickx so very special. Along these lines I have always loved the quote from Ickx in Peter Manso's book "Vroom."

". . . . . when you approach the limit, you get a lot of reflex that you cannot explain or anayze. You reflex before you can think about it, you know. As an example, you come too fast into a corner, you do something, and you pass. There is no rule to apply, only animal instinct."

You do something and you pass. Perfect!!

Mike took the words right out my keyboard. I, too, was going to endorse rdrcr's sentiments. And William, lest my original post appears to demean Jacky in any way, may I say that of sports car drivers, he was absolutely of the top draw.

I think he brought a lot to the sport. I well remember waking up to his potential when I read (probably in the following Thursday's Motoring News (on a student's budget, Autosport was a bit of a stretch) of his stunning practice time at the 'Ring in '66.

During '68 through '70, I really began to wonder if was going to prove to be in the Clark/Moss/Fangio category. Perhaps that wasn't quite to be, but he was a truly outstanding driver and a thoughtful man.

Vanwall

Some say his attitude wasn't serious enough to allow him to reach the top. I think that most just envied him.




FYI: Nuvolari was the greatest sports car driver, after him I might put Caracciola and Moss. To me sports car driving is all about endurance and reduced visibility brought upon by inclement weather or nighttime. The fact that these three won the Mille Miglia is illustrative, the fact that the latter two were the only foreigners to ever win all the more so.

Originally posted by Vanwall


Ahem! "By far"? "No one even comes near him"? Perhaps admirers of Pedro Rodriguez and Jo Siffert might take issue with that assertion. Not to mention that chap who won the '55 Mille Miglia and one or two other sports car races ... and Piero Taruffi, Tony Brooks, Derek Bell, Chris Amon ... and ...


Vanwall.

...and Mario Andretti as a team mate in Ferrari 312PB's at Daytona, Sebring, Brands Hatch, and Watkins Glen in 1972. They were an awesome combination as was the Ickx/Bell team at Le Mans.

Reading between the lines in Jack Brabham's autobiography, Ickx' return to Ferrari appears to have been an unexpected blow to Jack's plans.

Brabham had originally intended to retire at the end of 1969, but Ickx announced he was going back to Ferrari between Monza and Canada - it seems Brabham must have anticipated him being team leader in 1970:

... Jacky is a driver who prefers to be number one in a team and performs best when he is number one. After I had broken my ankle at Silverstone, he tended to drive faster ....

Brabham immediately tried to secure the services of Jochen Rindt, but Chapman came back with more money, so Jack stayed on another year. The rest is history ....

I'm reminded of an incident in the pits at Brands Hatch one year when Jacky was driving for Ferrari.

Tony Simmons, manufacturer of composite wheels in Sydney, was enjoying a stroll through the pits when he saw Jacky sitting in his car watching his mirrors.

Being stationary, he looked to see what Jacky was looking for... and saw a good looking girl walking up behind the V12 with its exhausts pointed her way.

"When they start," Tony told me, "they fire up with a crashing roar..."

Jacky timed the moment just right, fired the Ferrari and frightened the life out of the girl...

Wonder if that's the reason he left Jack? No fun with those old Repcos and Cosworths...

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Reading between the lines in Jack Brabham's autobiography, Ickx' return to Ferrari appears to have been an unexpected blow to Jack's plans.

Brabham had originally intended to retire at the end of 1969, but Ickx announced he was going back to Ferrari between Monza and Canada - it seems Brabham must have anticipated him being team leader in 1970:

As far as I can make out, Jack Brabham intended to retire at the end of every year from 1963 onwards.

As far as I can make out, Jack Brabham intended to retire at the end of every year from 1963 onwards.

Well, I believe he was quite happy he didn't do it at the end of 1965...

I believe the announcement of the incoming 3-litre F1 triggered something in Jack that gave him renewed purpose. While the end of 1963 may well have seen him somewhat downbeat, the end of 1964 would have been better... some real results through the year... promise of big power to wield...

Look at a couple of oddball sidelights... I recall well a picture of Jack racing in America in 62 or 63, the picture used to illustrate his cross-arms technique, I think it was SCG or C & D... but whatever, the car he was driving, the car he'd gone to America (or was it Nassau?) to drive was.... wait for it... a Sunbeam Alpine!

Two years later things were alight!

Invitations to America, should they have come, would have been to drive handsomely powerful V8 Sports Cars. F1 was going to have power again, and what's more, he had the germ of an idea that he might get the jump on all his pommie buddies by having Repco build him an engine.

Would you give up then?

Originally posted by Ray Bell


stavelot, it seems you could be capable of adding more to this thread... you're Belgian, I guess?

He looked great in the Lotus, as I recall, and gave Ronnie reason to work harder.

Well, I'm Belgian of honour and I like the Belgians. Also the Australians!

My nickname comes from my favourite track, of course.

Jacky Ickx was not focussed onto success. He was one of the best drivers 1968 - 1973 but he wasn't the champion (in formula 1). He didn't take his chances.

It's really terrible. 1971 he was second 5 points behind Stewart after his win in Zandvoort. In the following 7 races he started mostly from front row but achieved no point!

He had the same problem as Moss, Gurney, Amon, Regazzoni, Peterson, Gilles Villeneuve: very fast but not in each lap and not in each race.

Sir Jack was very glad to see some real horsepower returning to F1. I have read where he has staated that often. He also felt that his new car could get the jump on the likes of Lotus.

Originally posted by stavelot
He had the same problem as Moss, Gurney, Amon, Regazzoni, Peterson, Gilles Villeneuve: very fast but not in each lap and not in each race.

Oh Stavelot, I've tried to turn the other cheek ... but weakness ... I can't. : :

Please don't say things like "... very fast but not in each lap and not in each race ..." in relation to Stirling Moss. Please.

Whatever his failings might have been, these were assuredly not among them.

I imagine, too, that BJB and Keir will at least be tempted to come rushing to the support of Gurney and Amon.

Yours affectionately,

Vanwall.

Originally posted by Vanwall


Please don't say things like "... very fast but not in each lap and not in each race ..." in relation to Stirling Moss. Please.

Whatever his failings might have been, these were assuredly not among them.

I imagine, too, that BJB and Keir will at least be tempted to come rushing to the support of Gurney and Amon.

Yours affectionately,

Vanwall.

I like Moss, Gurney and Amon very much.

To become the champion you have to seat in the right car. When you don't have the right car you have to support to improve them (like Surtees 1963 - 64, Lauda 1973 - 74, Piquet 1980 - 81, Lauda 1983 - 84, Schumacher 1996 - 2000) or to change the team.

The choice of Moss, Gurney and Amon was mostly wrong. They gone to the wrong teams in to wrong time. They couldn't win the WDC.

But I agree: they are great drivers.;)

Notice that nobody has mentioned that when Ickx left Ferrari in mid-'73, after despairing that the 312 B3 would ever come right (we all make mistakes...), he did NOT sign for JPS Lotus immediately.

On the contrary, he was entered in the third Yardley McLaren M23 (effectively taking Jody Scheckter's seat after Jody triggered the big accident at Silverstone at the previous GP) - and ran the entire race in third place. Stewart and Cevert were first and second for Tyrrell, then Ickx was third - at the Nürburgring, beating Hulme and Revson in the other M23s (not to mention Fittipaldi, Peterson & Co) in a car that he had never previously driven. Simply great.

Why McLaren did not sign him to partner Fittipaldi in '74 (putting Hulme out to grass) is beyond me; Mayer set up a "B" team around Hailwood. When he could have had Ickx...
Or else Ickx believed Chapman when CC told him that the Lotus 76 would beat the world.

Either way, he was wrong. Staying with Lotus into 1975 was an even worse mistake, which - together with driving the ex-Hesketh Wolf-Wiiliams in 1976 effectively killed his F1 career.

he had a huge accident with an Ensign at Watkins Glen in (I think) late '76. And should never have accepted to come back with Ligier in '79, only to be comprehensively outpaced by Laffite.

But: we all make mistakes. A great driver, with an unfulfilled career.

Originally posted by Mohican


On the contrary, he was entered in the third Yardley McLaren M23 (effectively taking Jody Scheckter's seat after Jody triggered the big accident at Silverstone at the previous GP) - and ran the entire race in third place. Stewart and Cevert were first and second for Tyrrell, then Ickx was third - at the Nürburgring, beating Hulme and Revson in the other M23s (not to mention Fittipaldi, Peterson & Co) in a car that he had never previously driven. Simply great.

Only fair to point out that in fact Ronnie was the only person able to keep up with the Tyrrells in that race until his Lotus suffered ignition failure at Breidscheid on the first lap whilst running third.

In 1970 was Enzo planning to reunite Jacky and Chris Amon in the Grand Prix team? Or was Jacky only signed (between Monza and Canada, according to Vitesse, see above) once Chris had announced his decision to leave Maranello?  Had Ferrari always planned to run a one car team in the early races, or was that just how things worked out, with an undeveloped, unreliable car making opportunities for a second driver only realistic by Spa, the fourth race, where Giunti made his debut?

 

As an aside, Ferrari doesn't seem to have been too offended by Chris's departure in 1969 as they gave him some sportscar drives the following season, in the 512, even though he was a Ford driver on the GP grid.

As an aside, Ferrari doesn't seem to have been too offended by Chris's departure in 1969 as they gave him some sportscar drives the following season, in the 512, even though he was a Ford driver on the GP grid.

Maybe the conflict was between Gulf and Shell, and Shell wanted the conflict administered through Ferrari.

Jack rated Jacky very highly indeed, especially when he was driving a solitary works entry.  But he did admit that he found Jacky's journalist father an interfering, never satisfied, always suspicious, unreasonable pain...

 

DCN

Interesting that this thread should be reactivated now. Hopefully, I can add something to the discussion; if I may be allowed to quote from my own book (Jacky Ickx: His Competition History):

 

"Ickx’s departure from Ferrari to join Jack Brabham’s F1 team for 1969 surprised many but his overriding consideration had been the freedom to continue racing sports prototypes for John Wyer’s Gulf-backed JW Automotive Engineering squad. The miserable season that the Scuderia would endure in F1, with the team facing enormous costs if it was to survive and almost running out of cash, made his decision seem like a good one, at least in retrospect, although the dominance of Jackie Stewart’s Tyrrell-run Matra meant that Ickx was unable to challenge for the title. Not least among the reasons was that for the first part of the season, the Goodyear tyres used by Brabham were less effective in dry conditions than Dunlop and Firestone.

 

Immediately after the 1969 Canadian Grand Prix, Ickx told Powerslide magazine that his decision to return to Ferrari had been swayed by Fiat’s investment after finalising its 50% stake in June 1969. With the bigger budget already showing benefits when he first tested the new Ferrari 312B, he was immediately impressed with the smoothness, power and torque of Mauro Forghieri’s superb new flat-12 engine. It was enough to convince him that rejoining Ferrari and committing to drive for the Scuderia in both F1 and sports cars in 1970 was the right move.

 

Ickx’s sojourn at Brabham had almost brought him the World Championship and his two Grand Prix victories were both highly impressive. Although he benefited when his team boss’s absence allowed all efforts to be focused on him, he drove consistently well despite ‘Black Jack’ getting the best of the machinery when present, so his progress was compromised as a result. How much this influenced his decision to leave and how much he was swayed by the attraction of a potentially resurgent Ferrari team is difficult to assess, although he was buoyed by the blessing of both Enzo Ferrari and Fiat boss Gianni Agnelli. Mauro Forghieri, Ferrari’s mercurial technical chief, was cautiously optimistic about his new driver’s prospects, describing Ickx as, ‘Difficult to judge, but undoubtedly of great talent.’ Jacky’s supporters simply hoped he would fare better at Maranello than Chris Amon had in 1969.

 

In sports cars, the JW Automotive Engineering team had been the most impressive non-factory operation but had been unable to take the fight to better-resourced Porsche. The Group 6 Mirages had disappointed and the early-season reliance on the reliable but outdated Ford GT40 hadn’t been ideal, despite Ickx’s excellent wins at Sebring and Le Mans. The strength of Wyer’s team was in its unity, and the pairing of Ickx and Jackie Oliver had been highly effective.

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 11 April 2023 - 21:24.

Thanks Jon, that's interesting and helpful.

 

Going back to my 'bump' post on March 24th, did Jacky sign for Ferrari only after Chris had left? Or was there a brief period when the 1970 Ferrari line-up was to be Amon and Ickx?  Once it was clear that Chris was off to March, and that Ickx was Ferrari's 1970 team leader, I wonder what Maranello's original plans were for a second Grand Prix driver. Were Giunti and Regazzoni always in the frame, and if so in any particular order? Was there anybody else under consideration? De Adamich, Bell, Merzario, Tino Brambilla etc. Presumably Rodriguez had already officially left Ferrari in 1969, signing for BRM.

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 13 April 2023 - 17:37.

Thank you, Jon, for such a comprehensive reply.