38 replies to this topic

[Mika Mika]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/66160

Sad news,

[potmotr]

Sad news. Who could forget his epic battles with Senna. Or his explosive temper. Or the year he crossed the track at Silverstone after the pack passed end of the first lap and was nearly run down by a Ligier which was delayed after starting from pitlane. Or the 1991 French Grand Prix where he was seen in the pitlane at Magny Cour with a French model on rollerskates... during free practice.

[Elwing]

Terrible loss, he was one of the characters that made formula one the colourful sport we love.

[John B]

Certainly a legend from the, shall we say interesting political times of the 1980s when it seemed every weekend had some sort of drama.

[jonpollak]

a quell dommage...
Jp

[Welsh]

hmmmm

I have mixed emotions about him.

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Welsh
hmmmm

I have mixed emotions about him.

We are acting all very careful don't we?

Well, it's sad he died for his family. But if you think Max Mosley made a mess of F1 (as some of you think), you just have to watch Balestre's reign to nuance that idea.

My idea is he made a total mess of F1, the FIA, and the relationship with FOCA, and he redeemed himself only with banning the venturi cars.

Perhaps posting such a comment seems illfitting to you, but....

[Sébastien]

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
Perhaps posting such a comment seems illfitting to you, but....

Yes it does, but hey to each his own.

RIP Jean-Marie and thanks for the many good things you've done for our sport.

[Arion]

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen


Perhaps posting such a comment seems illfitting to you, but....

umm.... I think it's ok
after R.I.P message, it's inevitable we'll start discussing his legacy anyway.

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by Welsh
hmmmm

I have mixed emotions about him.

Me too. Sad loss for his family and friends, and a good opportunity to discuss what happened, so RIP to the old fellow. But otherwise I'm not sure he was ever really a force for good in F1.

[britishtrident]

The guy really was a genuine "hero of the resistance" --- apparently he took big risks acting as a double agent during WW2, perhaps he should be remembered for that.

[TennisUK]

Originally posted by britishtrident
The guy really was a genuine "hero of the resistance" --- apparently he took big risks acting as a double agent during WW2, perhaps he should be remembered for that.

His role as a "double" agent is highly contested - indeed there's no evidence to suggest he was, other than his word and his claim that all those who knew had long since died. There is a lot of evidence to suggest he was part of the French SS, however. His friendships and later business dealings with known "single" agent French SS lends further credence to him being a straightforward Nazi collaborator, rather than double agent, too.

[macoran]

I was ready to be happy...........but we have lost someone much better,
sadly enough Jean-Marie has passed away.
R.I.P.

[SeanValen]

All good things come to an end.

F1 rules that were good came to an end

Great drivers that were great are gone or retired

Colorful characters like the forumer FIA president can't come back

The world's climate is dooming us all, with it f1 tracks will be eaten up eventually with no one alive to keep f1 alive.

RIP Former President rest in peace, this life has pretty much had it's dose of f1, until the next life, and Senna, Clark, Gillles, Fangio and Schumacher's return.

[Gilles4Ever]

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns20183.html

A bit of a history for those who don't know.

R.I.P.

[Ferrim]

Originally posted by TennisUK


His role as a "double" agent is highly contested - indeed there's no evidence to suggest he was, other than his word and his claim that all those who knew had long since died. There is a lot of evidence to suggest he was part of the French SS, however. His friendships and later business dealings with known "single" agent French SS lends further credence to him being a straightforward Nazi collaborator, rather than double agent, too.

Wow. It seems that one of the requirements to become FIA president is to be related with fascism

[MONTOYASPEED]

R.I.P. I am sure Senna is arguing with him as I type this.

Originally posted by SeanValen
All good things come to an end.

F1 rules that were good came to an end

Great drivers that were great are gone or retired

Colorful characters like the forumer FIA president can't come back

The world's climate is dooming us all, with it f1 tracks will be eaten up eventually with no one alive to keep f1 alive.

RIP Former President rest in peace, this life has pretty much had it's dose of f1, until the next life, and Senna, Clark, Gillles, Fangio and Schumacher's return.

Just when I was like this " a Valen post with no Schumacher in it " you blew it right at the end.

[wrighty]

for all of his 'quirks' he was an integral part of the modern-day GP R.I.P JMB

[StefanV]

Originally posted by Ferrim


Wow. It seems that one of the requirements to become FIA president is to be related with fascism

Quite sad, ain't it? To make matters worse, motorsports is in no way unique. I respect the dead and say rest in peace, Balestre, but to say that he did any good for F1 is to show deep disrespect for Formula One.

[LB]

Originally posted by Ferrim


Wow. It seems that one of the requirements to become FIA president is to be related with fascism

The Nazi's were big into Motorsport even back in the 30's Hitler and his cronies poured funds into Auto Union and Mercedes, built the Nurburgring and the Autobahns, so its been linked for a long time.

I was no fan of Balestre just as I'm no fan of Mosley but of course I wish he rests in peace.

[britishtrident]

Originally posted by TennisUK


His role as a "double" agent is highly contested - indeed there's no evidence to suggest he was, other than his word and his claim that all those who knew had long since died. There is a lot of evidence to suggest he was part of the French SS, however. His friendships and later business dealings with known "single" agent French SS lends further credence to him being a straightforward Nazi collaborator, rather than double agent, too.

At one stage I held that view but a few years ago I did some ferreting around on the web and changed my mind.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by LB


The Nazi's were big into Motorsport even back in the 30's Hitler and his cronies poured funds into Auto Union and Mercedes, built the Nurburgring and the Autobahns, so its been linked for a long time.

Autobahns, yes. Nürburgring - definitely not. It opened in 1927, built as an unemployment relief project to attract tourism. One of the moving forces behind it was Konrad Adenauer, mayor of Köln and later first Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany. In 1927 the Nazis were still a small regional political party in Bavaria.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by britishtrident


At one stage I held that view but a few years ago I did some ferreting around on the web and changed my mind.

You should bear in mind that Balestre fought (and won) several libel cases against people who made allegations about his war record. His defence was always that all those who knew the truth were dead. In his lifetime, therefore, no-one would be likely to publish anything contradicting that. But even in French law, you can't libel the dead.

And even Jeffrey Archer won a libel case once ....

[FLB]

Originally posted by StefanV

Quite sad, ain't it? To make matters worse, motorsports is in no way unique. I respect the dead and say rest in peace, Balestre, but to say that he did any good for F1 is to show deep disrespect for Formula One.

I'm not sure Balestre did much harm to F1. With him, there was no question that business and sport were separate, at least until 1988 when Bernie became an FIA VP.

Politics are another matter. One could definitely argue that he did not take well to difference of opinion and took every opportunity to punish those who dared question his authority (Ayrton Senna, Michel Boeri for stopping the 1984 Monaco Grand Prix, his obsession with CART, etc.).

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by StefanV

Quite sad, ain't it? To make matters worse, motorsports is in no way unique. I respect the dead and say rest in peace, Balestre, but to say that he did any good for F1 is to show deep disrespect for Formula One.

Not a fan at all, but I'm very glad he fought his battle against the constructors over safety issues, e.g. leading to the ban of skirts/ground effect cars.
Just compare the death and injury rates in Formula 1 before and after 1982.....

FYI, an excellent overview of the FISA-FOCA war and Balestre's role in it:
http://8w.forix.com/...n-timeline.html

[StefanV]

Originally posted by scheivlak
Not a fan at all, but I'm very glad he fought his battle against the constructors over safety issues, e.g. leading to the ban of skirts/ground effect cars.
Just compare the death and injury rates in Formula 1 before and after 1982.....

FYI, an excellent overview of the FISA-FOCA war and Balestre's role in it:
http://8w.forix.com/...n-timeline.html

That is exactly what people say about Max when they want to describe some good that he has done.

[britishtrident]

Originally posted by StefanV

That is exactly what people say about Max when they want to describe some good that he has done.

I give most credit to Jackie Stewart, Sid Watkins, Louis Stanley, Nicky Lauda and a handful of others

[StefanV]

Originally posted by britishtrident


I give most credit to Jackie Stewart, Sid Watkins, Louis Stanley, Nicky Lauda and a handful of others

Yes, and those within FIA who are simply doing their job instead of being occupied with politics. Now, in reality it must also be acknowledged that a position like Balestre had automatically means politic. Balestre, and later Max, was a politician representing FIA. I guess another problem is a general assumption that FIA is representing us, the race fans. They do not. Maybe Balestre and Max did/does a tremendous job.

[stevewf1]

Originally posted by LB
The Nazi's were big into Motorsport even back in the 30's Hitler and his cronies poured funds into Auto Union and Mercedes...

Yes, but not for "sporting" reasons...

[Sébastien]

Originally posted by britishtrident


I give most credit to Jackie Stewart, Sid Watkins, Louis Stanley, Nicky Lauda and a handful of others

Is that the sister of the famous three-time F1 world champion Niki Lauda?

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by britishtrident


I give most credit to Jackie Stewart, Sid Watkins, Louis Stanley, Nicky Lauda and a handful of others

For all what they did, drivers kept dying and getting seriously injured in the seventies and early eighties at an alarming rate. Only after 1982 things changed.
Of course there are other factors in this (like the introduction of carbon structures!) but IMHO -for whatever reason- the FI(S)A played a crucial role in making the sport safer than it was before.

[StefanV]

Originally posted by scheivlak
For all what they did, drivers kept dying and getting seriously injured in the seventies and early eighties at an alarming rate. Only after 1982 things changed.
Of course there are other factors in this (like the introduction of carbon structures!) but IMHO -for whatever reason- the FI(S)A played a crucial role in making the sport safer than it was before.

It was a global awareness that did most of it. FI(S)A was maybe a part of it, but companies like Volvo, Mercedes and many others had long before that started to focus on safety and it was inevitable that it would also reach auto racing. And again - Balestre was hardly the man that put together the suggestions. They come from the auto industry and employees deeper in the organization and the direction was given by the board.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by StefanV

It was a global awareness that did most of it. FI(S)A was maybe a part of it, but companies like Volvo, Mercedes and many others had long before that started to focus on safety and it was inevitable that it would also reach auto racing. And again - Balestre was hardly the man that put together the suggestions. They come from the auto industry and employees deeper in the organization and the direction was given by the board.

Somehow it seems you really don't have a clue what was happening in Formula 1 between 1978 and 1982 ;)

[StefanV]

Originally posted by scheivlak
Somehow it seems you really don't have a clue what was happening in Formula 1 between 1978 and 1982 ;)

I do. The safety in F1 was quite frankly horrible. It did not take much effort to make it safer and there was a massive public opinion that forced a change to come through. Balestre was there at that time, but he can not seriously be credited as the person that made F1 safer. It was a process, involving many people. Some of them, like Ronnie Peterson, was already dead.

[Gilles4Ever]

Originally posted by StefanV

I do. The safety in F1 was quite frankly horrible. It did not take much effort to make it safer and there was a massive public opinion that forced a change to come through. Balestre was there at that time, but he can not seriously be credited as the person that made F1 safer. It was a process, involving many people. Some of them, like Ronnie Peterson, was already dead.

Not much effort?

But there were other times when Balestre fought for the good of the sport. He believed that the turbocharged engines in F1 and the ground-effect aerodynamics were both dangerous and a waste of money. He pushed through the new normally-aspirated engine regulations in 1989, overcoming all opposition . When he changed the rules in the World Rally Championship, following the death of Henri Toivonen, he was challenged in court by the giant Peugeot company , the motorsport division being led at the time by Jean Todt. If the FIA had lost the case, the federation would likely have been bankrupted, but he stuck to his guns and won an important ruling which established considerable powers for the federation , which had not been defined up to that point.

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns20183.html

Give credit where credit is due.

[StefanV]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Not much effort?



http://www.grandprix...ns/ns20183.html

Give credit where credit is due.

Seriously...

[Mika Mika]

Originally posted by StefanV

Seriously...

Errr, yes that is true....

[StefanV]

Originally posted by Mika Mika


Errr, yes that is true....

As I was saying - he did not have any choice but to make sport safer. Especially the WRC since it was not only Toivonen that died, it was also spectators. The media at that time demanded a change.

[Mika Mika]

Originally posted by StefanV

As I was saying - he did not have any choice but to make sport safer. Especially the WRC since it was not only Toivonen that died, it was also spectators. The media at that time demanded a change.

Group B not sure that the FIA needed the media to convince them to ban it.
In some ways a real shame I used to LOVE watching the "Killer B's"