29 replies to this topic

[morgoth bauglir]

Well, at the moment I'm trying to collect information on the penalties, punishments and similar things in the history of F1. Since I didn't find a thread exactly focusing on this topic I thought I could start a new one.

Could you help me to collect more information?
What were the most obscure penalties, reasons for being penalized?
Which different forms were used (of course there are black flags, disqualification, 10 seconds stop and go, , bans, later drive through and engine penalties etc.)?
Which driver got most penalties in F1?


Here I've got a list with information I extracted from Grand Prix Story 1993 by Heinz Prüller :


Penalties in Formula One :

Season 1993 :

Grand Prix Driver Penalty Reason
South Africa K. Wendlinger 10 - Seconds Jump start
Brazil E. Comas 10 - Seconds Overtaking under yellow flags
A. Senna 10 - Seconds Overtaking under yellow flags (Comas)
M. Schumacher 10 - Seconds Overtaking under yellow flags (Comas)
J. Alesi 20 - Seconds Overtaking under yellow flags (Letho and Herbert)
J. Alesi 10 - Seconds Overtaking under yellow flags (Comas)
Europe --- --- ---
San Marino A. Suzuki 10 - Seconds Blocking (Wendlinger)
Spain A. de Cesaris black flagged After electronic failure pushed into the box by marshals
Monaco A. Prost 10 - Seconds Jump start
Canada --- --- ---
France --- --- ---
Britain --- --- ---
Germany A. Suzuki 10 - Seconds Cutting off the 2nd chicane
A. Prost 10 - Seconds Cutting off the 2nd chicane (when avoiding Brundle)
M. Brundle 10 - Seconds Cutting off the 2nd chicane (2 times spun)
Hungary --- --- ---
Belgium --- --- ---
Italy --- --- ---
Portugal --- --- ---
Japan --- --- ---
Australia --- --- ---

All kinds of answers are welcomed, thank you very much.

[D-Type]

I think the first disqualifications were Mike Hawthorn and Jean Behra in the 1954 Argentine GP who were both disqualified for receiving outside assistance.



Edit: Typo

Edited by D-Type, 27 June 2010 - 17:29.

[Rob Ryder]

Felice Bonetto was disqualified from the 1952 German Grand Prix two years earlier... again for outside assistance (push start)...

Rob

[fines]

If you believe the Internet it was because of illegally smoking a pipe during the race!

[Catalina Park]

But he asked for F1 not F2.

[morgoth bauglir]

Oh, I'm open for everything. Whether it's from f2 or f1 isn't so important.

But I'd like to come back to the question who was penalized most.
I mean Rubens is taking those punishments in a row now and there wasn't barely a year when he didn't get any penalty.

2007 - Brazil - jump start - drive through penalty
2008 - Australia - drove into the closed pits - 10 seconds
2008 - Australia - ignored red lights - disqualification
2008 - Sepang - speeding in the pit lane - drive through penalty

That makes 4 penalties in 3 consecutive races who can top that?

Well, I'll make a list with his complete number of punishments.

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
But he asked for F1 not F2.

Keep in mind that one must always decode such questions to mean either the WDC or the F1WC, not the technical "formula one."

[morgoth bauglir]

Penalties (Rubens Barrichello) :

2008 - Malaysia - Drive through for speeding in the pit lane
2008 - Australia - disqualified for exiting the pits against red light
2008 - Australia - 10 seconds for entering the closed pit lane
2007 - Brazil - Drive through because of jump start
2007 - Turkey - 10 places back in the grid (engine penalty)
2007 - Malaysia - 10 places back in the grid (engine penalty)
2006 - Monaco - Drive through for speeding in the pit lane
2006 - Malaysia - 10 seconds for speeding in the pit lane
2006 - Malaysia - 10 places back in the grid (engine penalty)
2005 - Monaco - Drive through for speeding in the pit lane
2005 - Spain - 10 places back in the grid (engine penalty)
2005 - Bahrain - 10 places back in the grid (engine penalty)
2003 - Australia - jump start but had a crash before he could be penalized
2002 - Monaco - 10 seconds for incident with Raikkonen
2002 - Monaco - Drive through for speeding in the pit lane
2002 - Brazil - fastest lap in qualifying struck for leaving the pit lane against red lights (training)
1999 - Spain - disqualified for illegal car bottom
1999 - Australia - 10 seconds for ???
1994 - Australia - 10 seconds for speeding in the pit lane

I don’t think the list is complete especially about the 1990s I 've got not many information.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

Some of the more celebrated ones that spring to mind

1985 San Marino Grand Prix Alain Prost disqualified underweight
1987 Australian Grand Prix Ayrton Senna disqualified brake ducts
1989 Canadian Grand Prix Nigel Mansell left pits before race started
1989 Canadian Grand Prix Alessandro Nannini left pits before race started
1989 Belgian Grand Prix Eddie Cheever black and white flag* for unsportsmalike conduct
1989 Portuguese Grand Prix Nigel Mansell disqualified reversing in pits
1989 Japanese Grand Prix Ayrton Senna disqualified cutting chicane
1991 Portugese Grand Prix Nigel Mansell disqualified wheel changed in fast lane of pits
1994 British Grand Prix Michael Schumacher 5 second stop-go overtaking on formation lap
1994 British Grand Prix Michael Schumacher disqualified ignored stop/go penalty
1994 Belgian Grand Prix Michael Schumacher disqualified plank wear
1995 Brazilian Grand Prix Michael Schumacher team stripped of constructors points fuel sample did not match
1995 Brazilian Grand Prix David Coulthard team stripped of constructors points fuel sample did not match
1997 Belgian Grand Prix Mika Hakkinen disqualified fuel sample did not match
1997 European Grand Prix Michael Schumacher stripped of drivers championship points collision with Jacques Villeneuve
1998 British Grand Prix Michael Schumacher stop/go penalty overtaking under yellow flags
2000 Brazilian Grand Prix David Coulthard disqualified front wing
2002 French Grand Prix Michael Schumacher drive through penalty crossed white line on pit lane exit**
2002 Malaysian Grand Prix Juan-Pablo Montoya drive-through penalty collision with Michael Schumacher
2003 United States Grand Prix Juan-Pablo Montoya drive-through penalty collision with Rubens Barrichello
2004 Canadian Grand Prix Juan-Pablo Montoya disqualified brake ducts
2004 Canadian Grand Prix Ralf Schumacher disqualified brake ducts
2004 Canadian Grand Prix Olivier Panis disqualified brake ducts
2004 Canadian Grand Prix Cristiano Da Matta disqualified brake ducts
2005 Canadian Grand Prix Juan-Pablo Montoya disqualified exited pits through red light
2007 Canadian Grand Prix Felipe Massa disqualified exited pits through red light
2007 Canadian Grand Prix Giancarlo Fisichella disqualified exited pits through red light

*The last appearance of this flag in F1 I believe
**I think David Coulthard did the same in the same race, and possibly Ralf Schumacher at the Nürburgring in 2001.

[HistoryFan]

Here is a link to the German "Yesterday" Forum:

http://www.adrivo.co...opic.php?t=5328

[jgm]

Would it be inappropriate to mention spanking here....?


I'll get my coat.

[morgoth bauglir]

Originally posted by jgm
Would it be inappropriate to mention spanking here....?


I'll get my coat.

What are you driving at?

Senna - Irvine Japanese GP 1993?
Or something else?

[Wolf]

Originally posted by morgoth bauglir



What are you driving at?

Senna - Irvine Japanese GP 1993?
Or something else?

Nope, I think he is referring to the Max Mosley scandal. Telegraph article

[morgoth bauglir]

2003 : Barrichello should have got a drive - through but crashed on the in - lap
1999 : He was penalized for overtaking Schumacher before the start/ finish - line (thus still under safety car conditions) although he claimed that he only wanted to avoid an accident.

[HDonaldCapps]

Is 1976 relevant here?

[morgoth bauglir]

All kinds of information from any year are welcomed.

Here is what compiled about the 1994 season :

Season 1994 :

Grand Prix Driver Penalty Reason
Brazil E. Irvine 3 - race - ban caused pile - up, banned : Pacific - Monaco
Canada C. Fittipaldi disqualified underweight (2.5 kilos) - lost 6th position
Great Britain M. Schumacher 5 seconds overtaking Hill during the parade lap
M. Schumacher disqualified, 2 - race - ban ignoring penalty and black flag - lost 2nd place , banned : Italia -Portugal
Germany M. Häkkinen 1 - race - ban caused pile - up after the start, banned : Hungary
Belgium M. Schumacher disqualified illegal skidblock wear- lost victory
Portugal O. Panis disqualified illegal skidblock wear- lost 9th place
Australia J.D. Deletraz 10 seconds speeding in the pit lane
R. Barrichello 10 seconds speeding in the pit lane
M. Häkkinen 10 seconds speeding in the pit lane

[Seebar]

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk
Some of the more celebrated ones that spring to mind


1989 Belgian Grand Prix Eddie Cheever black and white flag* for unsportsmalike conduct


*The last appearance of this flag in F1 I believe

I'm just jumping at the opportunity, I've been wondering for a while now whether this flag has ever been used apart from this instance in F1.

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Is 1976 relevant here?

That would be the:
Spanish GP Hunt DSQ, later decision reversed,
British GP Hunt DSQ
Italian GP Hunt, Mass, Watson to back of grid.

In Canada 1977 Hunt got a $750 fine for walking on the track plus a $2000 fine for knocking down a marshal.

Elio de Angelis got a black flag at the 1981 British GP after having passed under yellow. He would have been allowed to resume race after getting a warning. Instead he started an intense verbal fight with the steward, jumped out and left the car in disgust. That cost him £100.
He was also disqualified for changing car too late at Brazil 1983 and disqualified for moving back to own grid position after problems on the warmup lap at Adelaide 1985.

etc etc.

[GJ1]

what i know:

1996:

Europe: Hakkinen 10 stop&go for pitlane speeding
Europe: Hakkinen 10 stop&go for pitlane speeding
San Marino: Badoer 10 stop&go for pitlane speeding
San Marino: Badoer 10 stop&go for ???
San Marino: Alesi 10 stop&go for pitlane speeding
San Marino: Diniz 10 stop&go for blocking
San Marino: Hakkinen 10 stop&go for blocking
Japan: Rosset 10 stop&go for blocking
Japan: Katayama 10 stop&go for blocking

1997:

Spain: Morbidelli 10 stop&go for jump start
Spain: Irvine 10 stop&go for blocking
Austria: M Schumacher 10 stop&go for ???
Japan: Villeneuve disqualified for speeding under yellow flags (with a previously suspended ban)

1998:

Australia: Tuero 10 stop&go for jump start
Australia: Tuero 10 stop&go for pitlane speeding
Great Britain: M Schumacher 10 stop&go for undertaking under yellow flag


+ I think Montermini got a stop and go in 1996 Canada for blocking

surely there is some more on the list, I will add them later

[jj2728]

Watching the current crop of hideously same looking F1 cars on hideously same Tilke designed tracks is punishment enough.....don't you think?

[arttidesco]

1978 Italian GP Mario Andretti & Gilles Villeneuve were penalised 1 min for a jumped start, and reclassified 6th and 7th, handing a 1-2 victory to Brabham drivers Lauda and Watson.

Edited by arttidesco, 27 June 2010 - 03:46.

[GJ1]

1999 Imola Takagi 10 second stop and go for blocking
1999 Montreal Panis 10 second stop and go for blocking
1999 Montreal Badoer 10 second stop and go for blocking
1999 Hockeheim Coulthard 10 second stop and go for cutting the chicane and overtaking Panis by that
1999 Hungaroring Alesi 10 second stop and go for speeding in the pitlane

[HistoryFan]

Interesting to see that the most penatelies which were '10 seconds stop' and go in the past are now only 'Drive Through'.

[tyrrellp346wheels]

does anyone have a link of footage of mansell exiting the pits to early in the 1989 canadian gp.

Edited by tyrrellp346wheels, 02 July 2010 - 21:38.

[tyrrellp346wheels]

I'm just jumping at the opportunity, I've been wondering for a while now whether this flag has ever been used apart from this instance in F1.

iirc but wasn't it used at the italian gp a few years ago for kubica, or am i thinking of the black and orange flag

[D-Type]

When was the black and orange flag introduced?

My 1975 Yellow book only has
Flag diagonally divided into black and white halves - unsportsmanlike behaviour
Black with white number - Stop at the pits on next lap

And my 1997-98 F1 yearbook (the earliest I have) adds
Black with yellow circle - Your car is in danger

2004-2005 no change

[Allan Lupton]

When was the black and orange flag introduced?

The late, great (in both senses) Timekeeper Mike Eyre defined the Black/Orange when it first appeared as meaning "your A****ole is on Fire".

[mzso]

Hi!

 

Does anyone know when was the stop & go penalty introduced and who got the first one? (In F1 and elsewhere.)

[Blue6ix]

Hi!

 

Does anyone know when was the stop & go penalty introduced and who got the first one? (In F1 and elsewhere.)

 

Stop & Go as a penalty was introduced as a alternative form of penalty or punishment for F1 in 1989, meaning 30 years ago.

 

Even though as with it's alternative and rival penalty forms (Meaning in this case Drive Through and Penalty Lap at time.) it just remained in rules without using it in a trial period of 1989-1990.

 

Rivals, meaning the original Drive Through penalty was meaned to have served with the theoretical pit lane speed limit which was being it's way to be introduced in rules even though it was to have more speed on it like say something about 160 kilometers per hour or similiar.

 

It wouldn't have slowed down racing that much, but for it's time it would have served it's purpose.

 

And finally there was a Penalty Lap which was meant only to be a very last form of penalty before disqualification.

 

And of course after any lesser penalties were given in advance.

 

Penalty Lap was just simply having added one lap after the moment of punishment to your normal racing time or given when other punishments wouldn't be still severe enough for a disqualification during the race, after the end of the race added with a race penalty for a probation time.

 

Penalty Lap as a penalty had it's roots from the punishment of 1981 Argentine Grand Prix when Ricardo Zunino quite harshly had that one for only just cutting a chicane.

 

Penalty Lap was then deemed to be as a unusual and too cruel form of punishment since it was meant to have been served, once again as a very last form of penalty before disqualification even though it had been on rules from the years of 1978-1981 and maybe even earlier than that before taken away swiftly from the rulebook since it was misused. It wasn't certainly not to be used as a firsthand punishment even though judges from that particular race apparently had a different mindset for that case.

 

Those punishments had their failings which meaned that Stop & Go as a penalty was just the best of the alternatives even though even it had it's flaws and all.

 

After those years of 1989-1990 and in especially after the end results of 1990 Canadian Grand Prix and with other complainments from earlier seasons and for the historic reasons, it was decided that in the year of 1991 would be the start of using 10 second Stop & Go penalty.

 

So it was introduced as a permanent penalty in 1991 United States Grand Prix and first used at the 1991 Monaco Grand Prix for Pierluigi Martini even though many observers for that race would have given that penalty to Emanuele Pirro rather than Martini because of the first mentioned driver's more occured blocking through the race for many drivers rather than just one, but severe occasion that Signor Martini had.

 

Alternatively, in the years of 1991-1994 there was a change to use 5 second Stop & Go penalty as a minor method of penalty, but it wasn't really used excluding the famous 1994 British Grand Prix for Michael Schumacher.

Edited by Blue6ix, 17 October 2019 - 14:45.

[DavidHay1]

Hi!

 

Does anyone know when was the stop & go penalty introduced and who got the first one? (In F1 and elsewhere.)

The first stop & go penalty was at the 1991 Monaco GP for Martini, for ignoring blue flags.