13 replies to this topic

[mariner]

That is a quote from the 17 October 1974 Autosport describing a match race between the F1 Shadows of James Hunt and JPJarier and the Canam Shadows of Follmer and Oliver. Apparently an F1 machine just won.

Was this a genuine race which proved that a Canam car , for all its power, was slower than a contemporary F1 car or was it some sort of exhibition event?

Who won the first showdown and were there any other real time "F1 versus Canam" run off's in history?

[bikr37]

My first ever copy of Autoweek (10/19/74) had the race report on this, and I still have the report! It was a real race; James Hunt had pole at 59.8 in one of the F1 cars followed by Jarier in the other F1, Follmer and Oliver. One second covered all 4. The lap records are listed as 58.3 for F5000 (Andretti) and Donohue had the outright at 57.34 in the 917. The F1 cars pretty much ran away. Jarier won with Hunt close behind. The CA cars had their usual mechanical issues; Oliver dropped out and Follmer was overheating. Prize was $10000, winner take all and reportedly each 'team' had a deal to split the proceeds if their team mate won. This is likely JP's only win in an F1 car?

Bob

[watkins]

Remember the UOP Shadow grudge match at Watkins Glen in October, 1974? I was there and it was one of the most entertaining races I've even seen. The promoters had everyone geared-up for this one: A 15 lap shootout between Oliver, Follmer and Jarier in a sprint to settle a score as to who was the best and fastest in the UOP stable. From what I saw that day, Jarier wanted nothing to do with it. Jarier started, and fell behind and then retired early. All during the race the crowd, at the Boot, was up and standing like it was the last lap at a NASCAR event today. I had heard this contest had started, during the Can-Am season, as a disagreement between Follmer and team orders, in a few races, that allowed Oliver winning the 1974 championship. Follmer was pissed and wanted to prove a point to team management, which he did as delight to the fans. I've never heard a crowd cheer so loud at Watkins Glen as they did that weekend when George Follmer took that checker.
http://www.glenphoto...mories/uop.html

[mariner]

I don't want to try to stir up artificial controversy about these match races which sound exciting but one of the reasons I put up the post is that at the same Laguna meeting Mario Andretti in a F5000 Lola set a 57.74 time , which was described as "nearly as quick as the Porsche 917/30K canam car". The best qualifying time for the F1 Shadow was James Hunt at 58.71 or a second slower than Andretti's F5000 time.

As F1 cars were usually quicker than F5000 whenever they raced together ( and the Shadow Can Am cars were not that far behind the 917/30 on a good day) I was surprised that a F1 Shadow was slower than a F5000 Lola on the same track on the same weekend but could still beat the Shadow Canam car.

[fines]

... which probably tells you everything you need to know about those "races"...

[Michael Oliver]

OK, probably making a huuuuuge mistake here by not checking my facts, but something in the back of my mind says that the match race did not involve F1 Shadows at all but that they were the Shadow-Dodge F5000 cars...hence the slower speeds mentioned? I am sure I have seen pics and the cars were surely mostly white, whereas the F1 cars were all-black? Preparing myself to be shot down in flames...

Michael

[alansart]

Originally posted by watkins
Remember the UOP Shadow grudge match at Watkins Glen in October, 1974? I was there and it was one of the most entertaining races I've even seen. The promoters had everyone geared-up for this one: A 15 lap shootout between Oliver, Follmer and Jarier in a sprint to settle a score as to who was the best and fastest in the UOP stable. From what I saw that day, Jarier wanted nothing to do with it. Jarier started, and fell behind and then retired early. All during the race the crowd, at the Boot, was up and standing like it was the last lap at a NASCAR event today. I had heard this contest had started, during the Can-Am season, as a disagreement between Follmer and team orders, in a few races, that allowed Oliver winning the 1974 championship. Follmer was pissed and wanted to prove a point to team management, which he did as delight to the fans. I've never heard a crowd cheer so loud at Watkins Glen as they did that weekend when George Follmer took that checker.
http://www.glenphoto...mories/uop.html

It was hardly entertaining. As a race it was rubbish! Follmer disappeared off into the distance and Jarier looked as though he couldn't be bothered. Being English, and on my first visit to the States, perhaps I didn't catch the atmosphere. I knew about the Follmer/Oliver rivalry beforehand and was looking forward to the competition, but it never really happened. I was at the corner before the boot and most of the people were fairly quiet after the first couple of laps. Many left before the race was over.

[watkins]

A good deal of the entertaining aspect I found, as a George Follmer fan since his Trans-Am days, was his victory and winning the $10,000 prize after loosing the Can-Am title that year, according to some insiders due to team orders, to his team mate Oliver.
And as for the turn 6 crowd leaving early...Well maybe they were on their way to the bog to watch a bus burn.
The hillside of the Boot still had many fans there for the end of that race (not as many as in the beginning but still enough to raise a loud cheer). The atmosphere was there along with the cheering (but some people avoided the Boot area because of it's "atmosphere")
I knew, when I posted my reply, there would be some in this forum that would be critical of my statement "...it was one of the most entertaining races I've even seen.". But, myself, I didn't care by how much Follmer won by, just so long he won. To many fans in the states, George Follmer was, and still is today, revered as a great driver.
I've been attending races at Watkins Glen since 1962 and the "Shadow Showdown" is still one highlight that sticks in my memory because of the outcome. The other time I've heard a crowd so loud was when James Hunt came in second to Ronnie Peterson during the 1973 USGP.
In the future I'll be a bit more careful and explanatory as to what I'm stating. And besides, it was the last time I saw a real Can-Am race (although I know some of you won't consider that a race or a competition).

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
OK, probably making a huuuuuge mistake here by not checking my facts, but something in the back of my mind says that the match race did not involve F1 Shadows at all but that they were the Shadow-Dodge F5000 cars...hence the slower speeds mentioned? I am sure I have seen pics and the cars were surely mostly white, whereas the F1 cars were all-black? Preparing myself to be shot down in flames...

Michael

Well, to begin with, the race in question was October, 1974, and the F-5000 Shadows were not built, and did not break cover, until 1975.

[philippe charuest]

there was a small report in the Sport-Auto magazine of that event combine with a track test of the shadow can-am done by josé rosinsky .youre right they were f1 not f5000 , but it wasnt a race either and it was clear that the drivers were brief to not take any risk and to just do a good show for the crowd ( in 74 it was still the old track and very much in need of some repair)

[Formula Once]

Did you know (I didn't) James Hunt drove a 1974 Shadow F1 at Laguna Seca at the end of 1974 standing in for Tom Pryce who could not be in the US to compete in what was a rather curious, UOP/Shadow organised, 27 lap race between the Shadow F1 and CanAm cars, driven by Hunt, Jarier and Follmer and Oliver respectively (Hunt leading at first but Jarier winning eventually - collecting 10.000 dollars - followed by Hunt, Follmer and Oliver). Got a brief report + picture here, but anyone knows anything more about this event? If there was any real racing involved it would suggest F1 cars being quicker than the CanAms, at least in 1974.

[Frank de Jong]

Some of us might know ;)
It has been discussed here

[Twin Window]

Thanks, Frank

[Formula Once]

Sorry people, been ofline for a while and hadn't seen the earlier thread.