27 replies to this topic

[dosco]

Another "new" engine. This one has won a NASA design competition, no less.

I wonder how these guys seal the "chordons?"

http://www.irisengin.../6901/6922.html

[Greg Locock]

Although we love taking the mickey out of new engines there is a very interesting design competition on at the moment, run by the DoD.

Essentially what they want is way of providing power to each infantryman, continuously.

The rules are framed such that batteries etc are far too heavy.

These powerpacks have a life of about 24 hours (from memory) - so IF you can design a lightweight reliable motor with reasonable efficinecy then long life may not be an important criterion.

I know of at least 4 proposals by Australian companies, so presumably there are thousands of American ones.

[malbear]

Greg,
is there a webpage or link as a quick google didnt show anything
Mal

[Greg Locock]

The Director, Defense Research and Engineering, John Young today announced a public prize competition to develop a wearable electric power system for war fighters. The competition will take place in the fall of 2008 and the prizes are $1 million for first place, $500,000 for second place and $250,000 for third place.

The essential electronic equipment that dismounted warfighters carries today - radios, night vision devices, global positioning system - runs on batteries. This competition will gather and test the good ideas for reducing the weight of the batteries that service members carry. The prize objective is a wearable, prototype system that can power a standard warfighter's equipment for 96 hours but weighs less than half that of the current batteries carried. All components, including the power generator, electrical storage, control electronics, connectors and fuel must weigh four kilograms or less, including any attachments.

Prizes will be awarded to the top three teams in a final competitive demonstration planned for the fall of 2008. At this "wear-off," individuals or teams will demonstrate their prototype systems under realistic conditions. The top three competitors that demonstrate a complete, wearable system that produces 20 watts average power for 96 hours but weighs less than 4 kilograms (~8.8 lbs) will win the prizes.

A public information forum will be held in September in the Washington, D.C., area to brief potential competitors on the technical details, the competition rules, and qualification requirements. Competitors must register to participate in the prize program by Nov. 30, 2007. The competition is open for international participation; however the individual or team leader must provide proof of U.S. citizenship. Details on the forum, as well as contest registration and rules are posted on the Defense Research and Engineering Prize Web site.

[phantom II]

You had better hyper energize your flux capacitor before you enter. Anyway, I bet a nonrechargable will/has won.

Originally posted by Greg Locock
The competition will take place in the fall of 2008

Competitors must register to participate in the prize program by Nov. 30, 2007.

[phantom II]

Originally posted by phantom II
You had better hyper energize your flux capacitor before you enter. Anyway, I bet a metal/air nonrechargable will/has won.

[Greg Locock]

I think some form of battery is the obvious contender, it is just that the projects I know of over here are IC engine based. That may be because of the Australian obsession with engines!

[malbear]

greg,
I would have thought that the constant buzz from an Model aero size IC engine would be too noisy and give away the position to the enemy invitinng a few morters or grenades in the general direction.
Mal

[Greg Locock]

SO would I

[Powersteer]

Instead of the pistons going up and down you have the cylinder liner caving inwards. Piston still the far simpler solution.

[dosco]

Originally posted by Powersteer
Instead of the pistons going up and down you have the cylinder liner caving inwards. Piston still the far simpler solution.

Indeed. What I found surprising was that the IRIS won an award from NASA. WTF?? I thought those NASA dudes were smart and stuff.

[Powersteer]

Originally posted by dosco
Indeed. What I found surprising was that the IRIS won an award from NASA. WTF?? I thought those NASA dudes were smart and stuff.

Probably for how its mechanicals work but either way I think I need some self evaluating for the next few years.

[zac510]

Originally posted by dosco


Indeed. What I found surprising was that the IRIS won an award from NASA. WTF?? I thought those NASA dudes were smart and stuff.

We haven't seen the competition yet..

[Powersteer]

Good, no need a re-evaluation. Anyway, the Iris's design aim is to take away the reciprocating mass of a piston engine.

[dosco]

Originally posted by zac510


We haven't seen the competition yet..

The competition was not mentioned in the NASA article (NASA Tech Briefs, Vol 32 No 4). Only the winner.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
The Director, Defense Research and Engineering, John Young today announced a public prize competition to develop a wearable electric power system for war fighters. The competition will take place in the fall of 2008 and the prizes are $1 million for first place, $500,000 for second place and $250,000 for third place.

The essential electronic equipment that dismounted warfighters carries today - radios, night vision devices, global positioning system - runs on batteries. This competition will gather and test the good ideas for reducing the weight of the batteries that service members carry. The prize objective is a wearable, prototype system that can power a standard warfighter's equipment for 96 hours but weighs less than half that of the current batteries carried. All components, including the power generator, electrical storage, control electronics, connectors and fuel must weigh four kilograms or less, including any attachments.

Prizes will be awarded to the top three teams in a final competitive demonstration planned for the fall of 2008. At this "wear-off," individuals or teams will demonstrate their prototype systems under realistic conditions. The top three competitors that demonstrate a complete, wearable system that produces 20 watts average power for 96 hours but weighs less than 4 kilograms (~8.8 lbs) will win the prizes.

A public information forum will be held in September in the Washington, D.C., area to brief potential competitors on the technical details, the competition rules, and qualification requirements. Competitors must register to participate in the prize program by Nov. 30, 2007. The competition is open for international participation; however the individual or team leader must provide proof of U.S. citizenship. Details on the forum, as well as contest registration and rules are posted on the Defense Research and Engineering Prize Web site.

To the unitiated...if the US DoD likes your idea, they are not averse to providing a 6 figure injection of funds for development

[malbear]

The fuel should be chocolate pudding mixed with honey rolled oats and dates, laced with brandy and coffee, about 2 KG, in addition to the normal field ration. The batteries should be the best lithium type rechargeable 1.5KG and the recharging mechanism similar to the windup radios in Africa or those windup torches but hooked up to leg motion with the option of neutral or hand winding .5 KG.

[dosco]

The competition was not mentioned in the NASA article (NASA Tech Briefs, Vol 32 No 4). Only the winner.

Right now on the Kojo Nnamdi show there is a discussion about internal combustion engines ... one feature panel member is part of the IRIS engine group. He's claiming the efficiency of the engine is a 50% increase over today's engines.

One of the discussions is about the social issues around inventions and new technology ... worth a listen if you have the time.

Here is a link to the Kojo Nnamdi Show page about the program that I'm listening to right now. Presumably this will be rolled up into a podcast for those interested.

Here is a Youtube of the IRIS in action. How these guys think they can get the seals to work is beyond me. Amazing.

Edited by dosco, 08 June 2010 - 16:57.

[OfficeLinebacker]

The only person who's more painful to listen to than Kojo Nnamdi is Diane Rehm.

Not that what they're saying might not be interesting, but Kojo's attitude and Diane's voice just annoy me.

[MatsNorway]

Although we love taking the mickey out of new engines there is a very interesting design competition on at the moment, run by the DoD.

Essentially what they want is way of providing power to each infantryman, continuously.

The rules are framed such that batteries etc are far too heavy.

These powerpacks have a life of about 24 hours (from memory) - so IF you can design a lightweight reliable motor with reasonable efficinecy then long life may not be an important criterion.

I know of at least 4 proposals by Australian companies, so presumably there are thousands of American ones.

What the army is really aiming for is suits like this one to exterminate the taliban as soon as they know were their groups are.


HD: http://www.gametrail...rcraft-ii/19777

Edited by MatsNorway, 08 June 2010 - 17:38.

[dosco]

The only person who's more painful to listen to than Kojo Nnamdi is Diane Rehm.

Not that what they're saying might not be interesting, but Kojo's attitude and Diane's voice just annoy me.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Today's show wasn't bad because Kojo is pretty much clueless when it comes to this "technology" stuff.

Diane's voice doesn't bother me ... her show yesterday about the BP oil spill did bother me, though. I thought the panelists on the show were biased, and the people calling in were lunatics coming out of the woodwork. That particualr bit of programming was spectacularly awful, IMO.

[Tony Matthews]

HD: http://www.gametrail...rcraft-ii/19777

Who filmed me getting ready for work?

[J. Edlund]

Right now on the Kojo Nnamdi show there is a discussion about internal combustion engines ... one feature panel member is part of the IRIS engine group. He's claiming the efficiency of the engine is a 50% increase over today's engines.

One of the discussions is about the social issues around inventions and new technology ... worth a listen if you have the time.

Here is a link to the Kojo Nnamdi Show page about the program that I'm listening to right now. Presumably this will be rolled up into a podcast for those interested.

Here is a Youtube of the IRIS in action. How these guys think they can get the seals to work is beyond me. Amazing.

Why on earth anyone would want to make an engine like that is beyond me! Most of these 'new engines' they don't appear to have any specific goal what the design intend to improve. Instead, the design philosophy seems to be 'I invented this new complex displacement pump - sure it must be the basis of a great combustion engine - 50% better efficiency at least'. When they have an idea what want to improve on, it is usually flawed in some way.

With this engine design the designers seem to think that if a larger portion of the combustion chamber surface area moves during expansion that should somehow reduce the heatlosses. Which it won't - stationary or moving surfaces won't change the heat losses. They also claim that they can expand the gases further than in an ordinary engine because a larger part of the combustion chamber move during expansion, which of course is incorrect. We could expand the gas all the way down to atmospheric pressure with a piston engine if we wanted to, and could use the expansion ratio required to do so.

[McGuire]

Why on earth anyone would want to make an engine like that is beyond me! Most of these 'new engines' they don't appear to have any specific goal what the design intend to improve. Instead, the design philosophy seems to be 'I invented this new complex displacement pump - sure it must be the basis of a great combustion engine - 50% better efficiency at least'. When they have an idea what want to improve on, it is usually flawed in some way.

With this engine design the designers seem to think that if a larger portion of the combustion chamber surface area moves during expansion that should somehow reduce the heatlosses. Which it won't - stationary or moving surfaces won't change the heat losses. They also claim that they can expand the gases further than in an ordinary engine because a larger part of the combustion chamber move during expansion, which of course is incorrect. We could expand the gas all the way down to atmospheric pressure with a piston engine if we wanted to, and could use the expansion ratio required to do so.

+1

[DaveW]

Don't hear steam engines discussed much these days. I wonder why (with head below the parapet)?

[mariner]

One option that the US DOD have been looking at is generators in the army boots. Not entirely silly as you have a pre-supplied reciprocating power surce always available so storage can be minimised.

[cheapracer]

Don't hear steam engines discussed much these days. I wonder why (with head below the parapet)?

The threads always end up boiling over.

[dosco]

Why on earth anyone would want to make an engine like that is beyond me! Most of these 'new engines' they don't appear to have any specific goal what the design intend to improve. Instead, the design philosophy seems to be 'I invented this new complex displacement pump - sure it must be the basis of a great combustion engine - 50% better efficiency at least'. When they have an idea what want to improve on, it is usually flawed in some way.

One of the main points of the discussion was that, in today's times, there has been little "radical technological change" as there was in the early/mid 20th century. The panelists were discussing ways to try and facilitate these changes so we can make the leap to "the next generation" or tech that will presumably also be "green" (low environmental impact).

I think they should have had a few more panelists, especially more guys with practical knowledge and perhaps even someone who didn't toe the line that the others were. One guy (a PhD professor type who also has a side gig blogging for The Atlantic) wasn't sure if Wankel engines are used in production cars or not(!!). Clearly an ivory-tower type with little practical knowledge.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, a recent Diane Rehm show on the BP oil spill was quite ridiculous.

I'm not sure if the programming is starting to suffer from groupthink, or if my perspective is changing. Or both.