57 replies to this topic

[Gregor Marshall]

Here are some photos I took around 1990 from Lord Brocket's "Ferrari" and Maserati collection before the break-in. I know the photos aren't great but I had a £10 Halina camera, was 13 at the time, didn't know what I now know and was a bit over-rawed by the whole thing!!

My late father had given Lord Brocket some instruction for the annual House of Lords vs House of Commons race at Brands and he very kindly invited my Mum and I round to have dinner with his wife and (then) two children (much to the annoyance of my Dad and his then wife!!) and on the night Page & Moy had a corporate event at Brocket Hall and got the guided tour and Lord Brocket (he lived in the old laundry on the estate) allowed me to tag along.
















The reason I've just posted these is I found the negatives the other day (the photos have been long time gone) and I took them to a well-known high street developers and asked if they'd develop and lighten them. They wanted £22 to develop them, plus £1.99 to add them to disk and couldn't lighten them so I asked how much just to add them to disk and they said £1.99, deal!! I'll mess around with them on photoshop and hopefully get them a bit better then below but I couldn't wait before posting them!!

[green-blood]

Absolutely brilliant

It wasn't one of those slidey cameras was it.... God I'm getting on now too.... ireland shoudl have beaten Englan in the WC that year too, good old Kevin Sheedy

[David M. Kane]

Pardon my ignorance, but what was lost or happened as the result of this break-in?

[Gregor Marshall]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Pardon my ignorance, but what was lost or happened as the result of this break-in?

To me four cars, the subsequent news that some of the cars weren't what they were supposed to be and then the break up of what was still a fantastic collection of cars, especially to me as an impressionable kid and even now as someone who loves cars.

I don't want to get into the ins and out of what happened, just sharing the photos as I don't think many people got to see the collection in situ and I actually liked Lord Brocket but then who am I to judge.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Pardon my ignorance, but what was lost or happened as the result of this break-in?

For the benefit of TNFers like DMK who wouldn't have a clue what all this is about, it was some kind of insurance fraud, quite big news here at the time. Valuable cars were lost or disposed of in some way, prior to a massive insurance claim of several millions. I forget the precise details, and Lord Brocket went to prison as a result. All I know is that I still go weak at the knees at the sight of a Ferrari GTO, and with that one, I hope Lord B didn't do anything worse than put a pillow over it's face.

[David M. Kane]

Thanks Kayemod.

[coco]

Originally posted by Gregor Marshall
[B]Here are some photos I took around 1990 from Lord Brocket's "Ferrari" and Maserati collection before the break-in. I know the photos aren't great but I had a £10 Halina camera, was 13 at the time, didn't know what I now know and was a bit over-rawed by the whole thing!!

Gregor,
nice photos! Do you have a shot of the car that is beside the Maserati 5000 on the right?

Ciao!
Walter

[Gregor Marshall]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Thanks Kayemod.

David - If you do a google search on his name plus insurance and Ferrari there's loads of articles, one very good one by the man himself as part of an excerpt from his book.

[Gregor Marshall]

Originally posted by coco
Gregor,
nice photos! Do you have a shot of the car that is beside the Maserati 5000 on the right?

Ciao!
Walter

Thanks Walter and unfortunately not, all I have is what I've posted. It was pre-digital days and I only had 28 shots and I'd used some already and not really being that organised as a kid (and I was offered a return visit) I only had what was left on the camera, sorry!! :

[flat-16]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Pardon my ignorance, but what was lost or happened as the result of this break-in?

In the same way that Don Capps tells us that we shouldn’t view the past with rose-tinted spectacles, and that one should endeavour to objectively report the rough accurately with the smooth, it simply wouldn’t feel right to have a thread on Brocket’s once-wonderful collection without documenting the story. I only know what I know through the media – I suspect there will be parties here who could illuminate all manner of minutiae relating to the case… As to whether they have the inclination…

There were some photos of the Ferrari remains in a magazine a while back – most of the photos I saw would’ve looked more at home on an archaeological dig… You can’t believe what you read in the UK media (understatement), but from what I gathered, Brocket used crude methods to break up the cars – angle grinder-style… The people chosen to perform the dismantling weren’t chosen for their mechanical ability… I don’t deny that , considering the skill out there, the reconstituted cars are probably now very good, but the photos I saw made for depressing viewing to fans of Italian automotive art; all the more distressing when you consider the rarity of them.

Guess what? With the good old British media and its trend for worshipping criminals, Brocket now appears in the media as a ‘Ferrari expert’ Who said crime didn’t pay?

http://www.ferraris-...t=SCM_200601_SS

I’m sure that the likes of DCN could tell you more than you’d want to know about the Brocket case (it wouldn’t surprise me if DCN had been contacted by the insurers), but – having an appreciation for the ‘soul’ of these vehicles – such experts may well be fed up with explaining the case by now.

Thanks for posting the photos, Gregor.

Justin

[Andrew Stevens]

If you find a copy of his autobiography "Call me Charlie" it is an interesting read and has his "take" on the whole affair, plus various other things in his life. I guess it's one side of the story, but told in an entertaining and rather self depricating style. Who can say where the truth really lies in these sort of situations, I assume it's somewhere between the two extremes...

[pilota]

Originally posted by kayemod
All I know is that I still go weak at the knees at the sight of a Ferrari GTO, and with that one, I hope Lord B didn't do anything worse than put a pillow over it's face.

IIRC this particular GTO could do with a pillow over it's face - it was a replica
Nathan

[flat-16]

Originally posted by pilota

IIRC this particular GTO could do with a pillow over it's face - it was a replica
Nathan

For which Brocket received another 2-year extension to his sentence for trying to pass off as the real thing...

So, not only did Brocket take an angle grinder to some of the world's most historically-important automobiles and bury their remains, he also tried to pass off fakes. He then goes on to to sell an autobiography, which, no doubt, would've sold well considering the British appetite for glamorising criminality... When does his new series on Channel 5 start? Who said crime doesn't pay?

Justin

[simon drabble]

Originally posted by Gregor Marshall


David - If you do a google search on his name plus insurance and Ferrari there's loads of articles, one very good one by the man himself as part of an excerpt from his book.

A very charming man but no Einstein so I would imagine the book to have been ghosted - I recall a Ferrari collector at the time telling me that Clapton's collection was not great but at least it wasn't as bad as Brockett's! They were mostly bitsa's bought at the top of the market - one of the reasons why he had to resort to the fraud. The flaw in his plan was splitting up with his wife soon afterwards - hell hath no fury like a drug addicted woman scorned!

[hipperson]

Great photos Gregor

When your bank....in Brocket's case , Midland ( now HSBC ) asks you to repay your £22.5 million overdraft who knows how any of us would respond !!

The fake GTO was constructed for £140,000.....presumably was then insured for the going rate.

An I right in thinking DCN was an expert witness in the case ?

[kayemod]

Originally posted by simon drabble


...hell hath no fury like a drug addicted woman scorned!

I think that most of us will be quite happy to take your word for that.

[Cynic2]

There are plenty of well-documented Lord Brocket stories, such as the sale of the replica/counterfeit 250 SWB to an American collector as the real car. I'll just add that I dealt with the good Lord when he was in his prime, before the fall. I had previously owned a Ferrari which was the highlight of his collection, and he was seeking some information on the car.


He really did say, "Call me Charlie", but went on to tell me that the car (a unique 212) had quite a history I'd never known. In his hands it had become a prototype 250 MM, and his "restorer" had discovered all sorts of racing features on the car, such as an outside filler and plexiglas windows. As I'd measured the displacement of the engine (it was the 2.6 liters of a 212, not the three liters of a 250) and had the car in bare metal (no filler, etc.) I was quite interested in his new discoveries. I even questioned his version of the facts, and was told that "Well, you know you can't change history, old boy." I remember that phrase very well, even 20 years later; the irony was overwhelming.


The car was later featured on the cover of a book on 250s, and driven by Decadnet for the DVD "Ferrari: Victory by Design,." who raved about the power of the 250 engine.


Fortunately that car is back in good hands now, and properly restored. The new owner checked -- the engine was still the original 212 displacement. All "Charlie" had done was to declare it a 250. After all, as I was told, "You can't change history."


Cynic


.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I read Call Me Charlie and found it amusing. Granted, it was strictly Brocket's point of view, and he certainly was a scoundrel, but it did seem like the authorities singled him out for some extra grief while he was in prison. Is this how it happened, or was he just looking for some sympathy in his autobiography?

Jack.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

Was the gorgeous 340 Carrera Panamericana in the last photo of the original post authentic, and is this the one that was destroyed by Lord Brocket?

[Cynic2]

That is the car I mentioned. It is not a 340; it's a 212, originally numbered 0239 EU and renumbered by the factory to 0292M. It did run in the 1952 Carrera, painted in this manner, on #5 driven by Efrain Ruiz-Echevarria. It was always a 212 (2.6 liters) although described by Brocket as a 250 (3 liters).

There was a series of three 340 Mexico Coupes -- 0222AT, 0224AT and 0226AT. Brocket never owned any of these, although 0292 does resemble them in some ways, and was painted the same.

Cynic

(And incidentally, those pretty Weber four-barrels are reproductions, and don't belong on the car. 0292 was always equiped with three two-barrel Weber carburetors, at least until one of its "restorations.")

[john ruston]

If he started today he could build these cars call them contiuation .He was a hell of a con man or before his time.I think the former!

[Arjan de Roos]

One of the main casualties of LB was a Ferrari 250 Europa (0421). It is now in safe hands with the son of its first owner.
Read how it was salvaged on the bottom of this page:
http://www.cavallino...les/europa.html

[Cynic2]

Arjan,

That's a great story, and one of the best possible outcomes for the cars Brocket attempted to destroy.

One of the other cars Brocket cut up, a very nice and unique Vignale cabriolet (0138 AM), was "restored" as a competition Vignale-style spyder. It's a very pretty car, but seems to me to be little different from the practice of rebodying a 250 GTE 2+2 as a GTO. I suppose I should be glad it survived, even as something it never was.

Cynic

[David Birchall]

Like David Kane I was unaware of the full story so here it is in 'is Lordship's words:

http://forums.carand...thread.id=90170

[David M. Kane]

Amazing David! Thanks.

[Damien Duigan]

Can anyone (and if anyone can, it'll be Walter) ID the Masers in Lord Sprocket's collection??

Moving past the two OSCAs, I can see a 150S (with race number 65), which should be #1651, then a 300S, should be #3054.

Then there's the 5000GT Allemano (not sure which one), the A6G/2000 with Allemano bodywork (either #2170 or #2185, both now in Australia).

No sign of the bodgy Birdcage #2456 or his A6GCS #2096.

Cheers,
Damien

[kayemod]

Originally posted by David Birchall
Like David Kane I was unaware of the full story so here it is in 'is Lordship's words:

http://forums.carand...thread.id=90170

The Judge at the fraud trial appears to have found 'is Lordship's words, none too convincing, though there usually seem to be two quite different, occasionally even plausible, sides to most such stories. At any rate, Lord B's defence clearly failed to convince any of the people it was aimed at.

[hipperson]

For those who may not know Brocket Hall on the edge of Welwyn Garden City I took this snap at a FOC meet in circa 1990.Entrance to his 'museum' was denied us.
Who would have thought a decade on the miscreant incumbent of this fine dwelling would embark on a journey of sacrilege that would end up with the tawdry fellow in the slammer ?




The two Ferraris here below are both not what they appear to be......but rather than in Brocket's case, the owners made no attempt to disguise the fact.





The GTO was a Terry Hoyle recreation. This was the first time I met Terry.Whether this was the one commissioned by Brocket I know not. Best if I do not ask.
All I know is that Terry is a lovely chap who became innocently embroiled in the affair much to the detriment of his health and pocket.
Terry told me a story of Brocket on the Jimmy Savile show 'Jim 'ill fix it' where Savile fulfills a childs dream...anyway it was to do with Ferraris and his smarmy guest was on and presented the youngster with a steering wheel purportedly from a GTO......was it heck !

At the time of his incarceration I thought Brocket was unlucky to go inside as no-one had been 'hurt' but as time goes on and you read more and you see him TV-prancing in the 'jungle' large as life I feel now the punishment fitted the crime.

[hipperson]

This was on display...said to be the oldest surviving Ferrari from 1947. Car number 4.
I would be interested to know if this was fact ( or Brocket fiction)

[starlet]

Brocket fiction, as you said...
This 166 Inter c/n 037S is from 1949, and fortunately there are oldest surviving Ferraris.

[coco]

Originally posted by Damien Duigan
Can anyone (and if anyone can, it'll be Walter) ID the Masers in Lord Sprocket's collection??

Moving past the two OSCAs, I can see a 150S (with race number 65), which should be #1651, then a 300S, should be #3054.

Damien,
His Lordship never owned a 300S. The car you arwe talking about is a 200S (#2425).

Ciao!
Walter

[David McKinney]

Again we must differ, Walter
He did indeed own 3054

[Damien Duigan]

G'day Walter,

Thanks, thought it looked like a 200S but wasn't aware Lord Sprocket owned #2425 so thanks for the update.

Back to the 300S, I don't want to preempt your new book (when does it hit the bookshops?) but I thought Lord Brocket entered #3054 to the Louis Vuitton Concours at the Hurlingham Club in June 1993. Haven't referenced the source of this info unfortunately.

Any clues on the 5000GT? I can't make out the state of the licence plate which might help ID the car.

Cheers,
Damien

[flat-16]

I wonder if the kind of attitudes shown towards Brocket would be the same if it hadn’t been a lord that cut up a collection of rare vintage cars and tried to sell a replica as a GTO, but a wide-boy from Dagenham?

Having said that, Hipperson has a point about the British legal system handing out 5-yr sentences for insurance fraud, when causing death by dangerous driving nets a 6-month suspended sentence… Justice? No. Just a means of lubricating the wheels of society.

Anyway – thanks to all that have posted the nice photos


Justin

[simon drabble]

Originally posted by flat-16
I wonder if the kind of attitudes shown towards Brocket would be the same if it hadn’t been a lord that cut up a collection of rare vintage cars and tried to sell a replica as a GTO, but a wide-boy from Dagenham?

Having said that, Hipperson has a point about the British legal system handing out 5-yr sentences for insurance fraud, when causing death by dangerous driving nets a 6-month suspended sentence… Justice? No. Just a means of lubricating the wheels of society.

Anyway – thanks to all that have posted the nice photos


Justin

Do you mean we might have had some sympathy for him if he was an Essex wide boy because he knew no better?
I have only met him post custodial sentence and he seemed charming but I gather that before hand he was an arrogant 5hit and not many people had much time for him.
Cutting up a Ferrari is a crime whatever the purpose!

[hipperson]

Better view of the Hall...



It has a 'place of detention' look about it..?

[coco]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Again we must differ, Walter
He did indeed own 3054

...oops! I just checked my files and ...BOING!!...you are right! His Lordship was indeed owner of #3054 but that car survived the "chain massacre"!

Ciao!
Walter

[coco]

Originally posted by Damien Duigan
G'day Walter,

Thanks, thought it looked like a 200S but wasn't aware Lord Sprocket owned #2425 so thanks for the update.

Back to the 300S, I don't want to preempt your new book (when does it hit the bookshops?) but I thought Lord Brocket entered #3054 to the Louis Vuitton Concours at the Hurlingham Club in June 1993. Haven't referenced the source of this info unfortunately.

Any clues on the 5000GT? I can't make out the state of the licence plate which might help ID the car.

Cheers,
Damien

Damien,
the book goes to the printer in June.
About the 5000 GT: I assume it was the "Indianapolis"-5000 GT due to the design of the front-grille. I have to check.

Ciao!
Walter

[David Birchall]

Originally posted by hipperson
Better view of the Hall...



It has a 'place of detention' look about it..?

I wonder how many thieves and rogues are in the photo....?

[hipperson]

That ginger one for a start............

[hipperson]

'If you go down to the woods today...'




Lifted a cloth this morning and what did I spy.........................thank god the ragamuffin 'blueblood' never not get his axe to this masterpiece.

[flat-16]

Originally posted by simon drabble

Do you mean we might have had some sympathy for him if he was an Essex wide boy because he knew no better?
I have only met him post custodial sentence and he seemed charming but I gather that before hand he was an arrogant 5hit and not many people had much time for him.
Cutting up a Ferrari is a crime whatever the purpose!

No, definitely not. I was suggesting that, whilst the court may have made an example of him, certain factions, particularly those within the media, have glamorised him as a loveable rogue; “landed gentry gone bad – he was trying to save the family pile… He’s not a bad egg really…” Had someone from a more conventional background committed the offences, I very much doubt they would’ve received such lenient treatment within the media. Having said that, the UK has what must be one of the world’s most morally-vacant media machines in the world, so one shouldn’t be surprised. I suspect that the UK is a world-leader in terms of lining the pockets of criminals from biographies and such.

On one programme I saw, Brocket was presented as a “Ferrari Expert”…”Here’s Lord Brocket – and he should know a thing or two about Ferraris…”

Whilst collectors of million-pound Ferraris aren’t anywhere near the top of my list of charitable causes, at least there’s a good chance that the million quid that they intend to pay for the GTO has been obtained by fair means. Passing off a car worth a £100K-or so as a £1mil+ piece of history is an odious crime whatever way you look at it – even if the victim is a millionaire. Why should one person’s need to save the family pile be greater than the need of the potential buyer to maintain their wealth?

Anyway – nice pictures! You truly are blessed if you have come into close contact with such machinery!


Justin

[Nordic]

Brocket features on TV tonite in the UK milking his notability a failed fraudester on ITV at 9.

Fiddles, Cheats and Scams promises to lift the lid o.............


I cant be arsed any more, why do I bother going to work everyday when I could turn to the darkside and live like, well a Lord.

[Arjan de Roos]

I have compiled a list of all Ferrari's that passed through LB's (at times destructive) hands. Additions and corrections welcome.

340 America Vignale Spyder 1952 (0138AM)
250 Europa 1955 (0421GT)
195 Sport (0123S)
166 Berlinetta Farina 1949 (0037S)
212 Europa Vignale Coupe 1951 “250 MM” (0239EU  0292MM)
250 GT Pf Cabriolet Serie II Meade Special (1761GT)
250 GT SWB replica (“3565GT”)
195 Inter body 0024M Vignale Coupe 1951 (0097S)
375 Spyder Pf (0366AM)
166 Inter Coupe (021S)
246 GTS (03828)
365 GT 2+2 (12089) [RMS 124G]
275 GTB Longnose RHD [HAA 230D]
275 GTB Longnose
250 GT Lusso
512 BB
365 Daytona Spyder
308 GT4
312 B3 F1 (014)

[P. Dron]

Better view of the Hall...



It has a 'place of detention' look about it..?

Amusing factoid 1: the house, which is actually very attractive both inside and out, was where the notorious Lady Caroline Lamb had herself served naked on a large tureen one dinner-time.

Amusing factoid 2: Brocket Hall was used as a location for the 1950s horror film, The Devil Rides Out.

Amusing factoid 3: Lord Palmerston snuffed it at Brocket Hall. I believe he was shagging a chambermaid on the snooker table when the Grim Reaper got him, but I do not know whether he broke the rules by neglecting to keep one foot on the floor.

My memory may be playing tricks, but it suggests a fourth amusing factoid: the gents lavatories are like those in a five-star hotel. There is a large glass fishtank above the urinals, and at every flush, the fish descend several inches and then rise again.

[RA Historian]

Amusing factoid 1: the house, which is actually very attractive both inside and out, was where the notorious Lady Caroline Lamb had herself served naked on a large tureen one dinner-time.

To paraphrase the famous line from When Harry Met Sally "I'll have what he's having!"
Tom

[Doug Nye]

Not the first arriviste toff to pose as a genial connoisseur - and equally not the first to fall victim to his many actual inadequacies. The fact that he in effect subborned two of his estate workers to do the destructive heavy labour for him - and that he should even for one nano-second believe that he could get away with such an amateurish scam - simply confirms the impression that here we had an all-round, world-class, Olympic freestyle berk.

None of the above alters the fact that HM Prison service should have done a darned sight better job of providing a better basic standard of safety than this idiot encountered. No prisoner should need to carry laundry round with him most the time to ward off attacks from razor blades mounted in bars of soap, and suchlike. He should have been allowed to do his porridge in peace, as should every other convict...well, most of them... I would take his side there. As for the scam - spell that **** (again).

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 22 May 2009 - 20:38.

[JtP1]

Written for Lord Brocket's grandfather, but seems totally in character. For those south of Hadrian's wall, I should point out that the Knoydart estate was possibly the worst run in Scotland. Bit of a contest between it and Eigg. It has after years of neglect been taken over by a charitable trust in recent years

http://www.mysongboo...m/menofkno.html

[Gregor Marshall]

Amusing factoid 3: Lord Palmerston snuffed it at Brocket Hall. I believe he was shagging a chambermaid on the snooker table when the Grim Reaper got him, but I do not know whether he broke the rules by neglecting to keep one foot on the floor.

My memory may be playing tricks, but it suggests a fourth amusing factoid: the gents lavatories are like those in a five-star hotel. There is a large glass fishtank above the urinals, and at every flush, the fish descend several inches and then rise again.

Both facts I'd say are true - Lord Brocket told my Mum and I the story of IIRC the 13th Lord passing away on the Snooker table whilst enjoying himself in the snooker room and I can from first hand experience say the fish tank was the urinal flush - it actually came from somewhere in London but I can't remember where now.

[Wolfi]

I think Brocket owend #1664, not 1651.

Regards

wolfi