20 replies to this topic

[MPea3]

In the COlumbus, GA track thread Jim Thurman mentions

Or for signifigant short tracks, how about the Atlanta Speedway? Located at Paces Ferry and The Chattahoochee River. Look for aerials from 20's or 30's. A rarity for the time, a paved oval and a high banked one at that. One of the few in the country between the wars.

Found it. From 1938



and today's google earth image of the same area



Image courtesy of UGA http://dbs.galib.uga...ml/georgia.html

To find the image go to this page and look for image atj-2a-053.sid

[Lotus23]

Exit 18, I-285; Vinings is close by. Doesn't look like anything remains, does it?

Of course, ATL has changed a bit since '38!

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Lotus23
Exit 18, I-285; Vinings is close by. Doesn't look like anything remains, does it?

Of course, ATL has changed a bit since '38!

It's a bit upscale now. If I rode through there they'd probably pull me over just for being on a bike...

[Jim Thurman]

Excellent job MPea3

According to the second edition of Allan E. Brown's "The History of America's Speedways - Past & Present", Atlanta Speedway was supposed to have 35 degree banking (!). It is listed as a dirt track, not paved as I posted

[MPea3]

I was also interested by the shape, not quite round but pretty close, almost Langhornish.

[fines]

Originally posted by MPea3
... almost Langhornish.

My thoughts, exactly!

[fines]

Originally posted by Lotus23
Exit 18, I-285; Vinings is close by. Doesn't look like anything remains, does it?

Well, the surrounding roads appear to be still the same "shape" and location!

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by MPea3
I was also interested by the shape, not quite round but pretty close, almost Langhornish.

Yes, my thoughts too. And with reported 35 degree banking (!)*. You know the races at Atlanta Speedway were likely open wheel "Big Car" events. Perhaps this would be something Don Capps could look into.

I'd really like to know more about the events at this track.

*though that might have been advertising hype.

[MPea3]

I can't imagine building or maintaining a 35 degree banking of dirt. Of course here in the Atlanta area we have our infamous red clay which is never far below the surface. The stuff is very firm but slick as owl stuff when wet. 35 degrees. Wow... can you imagine what one decent rain would do to the surface?

[HistoricMustang]

Great job! I looked for hours and could not locate.

Were you able to use the University of Georgia web link that I have been wearing out?

The area still has appearance (circle) from the original placement.

Joel, we need to set aside some time to visit some of these tracks that have been identified.

Henry

[MPea3]

It was still clearly visible in 1960, near the top of the photograph as a black circle next to the river



and even in 1972, halfway grown over, near the left edge of the photo, 1/3 up from the bottom

[MPea3]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
Were you able to use the University of Georgia web link that I have been wearing out?

It's addictive... Beth's accused me of being "married" to Atlas and the UGA website for a week now, and says I haven't gotten anything done. She's right. I see her over there starting to clean off my workbench, always a dangerous sign. Perhaps I should stop now and go earn a living...

[MPea3]

According to an article in the Atlanta paper from that time, the track was to open on November 9, 1929, and it was billed as a half mile track with 35 degree banking, dirt, but said that a "patented surfacing material is being spread over the surface to do away with the dust menace." The article states that it was designed as a circle for safety, and mentions speeds of 125-150 mph being possible.

Other articles in subsequent papers mention that first race being postponed and rescheduled, and postponed again and again. I never did see any results from races, and all mention of the Atlanta Speedway stops in the paper's archives after July of 1930. Whether or not any actual races ever ran there I don't know.

I have the original article in pdf form if anyone would like to see it, just PM or email me at mp@luthier.net. I'd screenshoot it and display it here but it specifies no reproduction.

[HistoricMustang]

Now only houses, swimming pools and tennis courts.

Henry

[MPea3]

I went by and took a look, and if you know the track was there you can see the banking in places. Unfortunately for me it's now a small gated community of houses, and decent photography is difficult. There are some things that can be determined though, one being that the track and bankings were built up from the original surface rather than being dug in or half and half. The whole area is rather flat, and in the oldest photographs you can see that the entire area along the river there was farmland.

I've included the 1938 Aerial shot as a point of reference.



The first shot is taken from point A. You can see small bits of the old banking , but most of it is gone. The area
in this photo is outside of the track, but the house behind the large canopy just left of center is built on top of the banking.



The second shot is from point B. It doesn't show the reason why I couldn't get in, but the photo was taken through a large and locked gate. The entire banking in that immediate area is gone, although again a house to the left is up on top of a portion of the remaining banking which is visible just beginning to rise.



The third and fourth shots are from point C. First is from the straight street just below the track on the southeast side, right at the point where the track was closest to the street.



A slick climb up the hill gave me this foreshortened view down the banking. Growth and areas where the banking had been destroyed over time make getting any sort of meaningful photograph difficult (especially for me, being a total dork with a camera), but you CAN see it.



From what I can see, the banking was no more than about 8 feet in height. Assuming that they were accurate in reporting a track width of 40 feet, that would make for approximately a 12 degree banking. Certainly it wasn't 35.

I wonder if any of these people have any idea what was under their houses.

[fines]

... or what the strange guy with the camera was doing there on a Monday morning!

Top job, pingu!

[HistoricMustang]

Absolutely fantastic documentation!

It was a beautiful day in Georgia! While others were out enjoying swimming, tennis, golf or softball a TNF member was putting his life in danger documenting.

Henry

[MPea3]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
Absolutely fantastic documentation!

It was a beautiful day in Georgia! While others were out enjoying swimming, tennis, golf or softball a TNF member was putting his life in danger documenting.

Henry

Kind words but what I've done is hardly yet documentation. I dunno about risking my life either... the ride downtown on the bike was probably more dangerous than dealing with the paranoid locals!

What I've been able to find out so far is just the tip of the iceberg, and I'm left with more questions than answers. So far I can't ascertain that any actual races ran there, but there's hardly enough information to say that none did. I find a string of announced races, mentions of delay, but never any results. One newspaper column mentions Young Stribling (a then famous Georgia boxer) as coming to the track, along with Babe Stapp with a Dusenberg and Ty Cobb, who it said was going to race! It also mentioned having a sanction from the AA Contest Board. The whole thing seems to be an incredibly hyped place with lots of announcements but not much else.

And the track... how did the cars get into the infield? I see no mention of or any indication of a tunnel, so I'm guessing that perhaps they went over the track to gain access to either the track itself or the infield? That would pretty much take care of any notion of a 35 degree banking... the initial newspaper article says that the previous day they'd had some sort of open house with over 500 cars driving the track. Can you imagine the typical car of 1929 dropping down into a 35 degree round bowl and not being able to get out?

And how about a wall on the outside? Or no wall? Or was there an apron at the top? More questions. At this point it's all just speculation. The only material I find on the track is from the paper, and I'll probably go ahead and download all of the relevant articles, but without any phoptographs I don;t know if many of my questions will ever be answered.

[fines]

Walls or even fences at the outside of banked ovals weren't common place until the forties or fifties. And Winchester, the mother of all banked dirt tracks, was tilted 34 degrees on the turns and 20 degrees on the straights in 1930, according to one source, yet there never was a tunnel or a bridge! But, judging by photographs I've seen, the straights must've been almost level.

[YankeeRacer]

What site are your finding the old 1920s/30s aerial photos for Georgia, etc.?

[HistoricMustang]

What site are your finding the old 1920s/30s aerial photos for Georgia, etc.?

It can be a difficult undertaking but start here:

http://dbs.galib.uga.edu/gaph/html/

Have discovered that most States are developing some type of on line documentation using aerial photographs but there is no set method or location for presenting the work. Another good Google start is to check out former railroad photography provided via aerial.

Welcome aboard TNF and thanks for using the Search feature before posting.

Henry

Edited by HistoricMustang, 12 June 2009 - 09:21.