Jump to content


Photo

What is happening to the GPDA?


  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#51 Lifew12

Lifew12
  • Member

  • 4,551 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 09 May 2008 - 15:18

Originally posted by Devero
I think GPDA is OK but we have a few miserable kids called top drivers who don`t care of anything appropriate for grown-up people. :rolleyes:
I would suggest them re-watch Imola, Monaco 1994 to begin with.

But I suspect that those childish, petty minded selfish species will collapse while watching that. :o


But what do you expect the GPDA would have done about Imola 1994? The drivers back then often made noises about that particular part of the track, yet never made any moves to alter it.

Advertisement

#52 Buttoneer

Buttoneer
  • Admin

  • 19,094 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 09 May 2008 - 15:26

Originally posted by HP
One thing could have changed things though. Had the Michelin teams made good on the idea to hold an exhibition race after the season was over. I think McLaren suggested something like this. They could have earned a lot of good will there. But I rather not start speaking about Mclaren's gestures of good will.

But it was Michelins fault, not the Michelin teams fault. They were as much a victim of circumstance as anyone else.

What they did wrong was to line up for the parade lap, but you can bet your arse that they did that for Bernie's sake and his contractual requirement to put 20 cars in front of the audience.

What eventually happened (i.e. Michelin paying out to the crowd) ensured that the right party took the punishment. I still think though that the diamond cut track is something the FIA should have properly addressed when it cleared the track for grand prix racing.

#53 Devero

Devero
  • Member

  • 544 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 09 May 2008 - 15:38

Originally posted by Lifew12


But what do you expect the GPDA would have done about Imola 1994? The drivers back then often made noises about that particular part of the track, yet never made any moves to alter it.


The latest achievment of GPDA are completely the same medical and safety standards at all test tracks as during GP`s.
That was achieved in spite of FIA and Max in paricular and in the end it definetely saved even a few lives.

As long as accidents like the recent one with Kova will end up only with slight concussions at 26G direct impact I will consider GPDA efforts as vital for F1.

#54 kar

kar
  • Member

  • 10,441 posts
  • Joined: January 06

Posted 09 May 2008 - 15:44

Originally posted by Devero


The latest achievment of GPDA are completely the same medical and safety standards at all test tracks as during GP`s.
That was achieved in spite of FIA and Max in paricular and in the end it definetely saved even a few lives.

As long as accidents like the recent one with Kova will end up only with slight concussions at 26G direct impact I will consider GPDA efforts as vital for F1.


I'm not so sure the FIA were 'against' having that level of safety at tests, I think it was a matter of costs and who should foot the bill.

Hardly fair the FIA paying for everything when testing was until only very recently completely outside its purview, and even now many tests are conducted privately.

That said, I agree, the lead the GPDA took on testing safety was one of its highlights in recent years.

#55 kismet

kismet
  • Member

  • 7,376 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 09 May 2008 - 16:03

Maybe, just maybe, the GPDA is not all it's cracked up to be on internet message boards. Maybe, just maybe, some drivers aren't members, not because they're despicable little shits that deserve to have accidents so they can grow as persons, but because they actually see what the organisation does in real life, outside of its nobler-than-noble mission statements. The GPDA may've been founded on the best of intentions but that doesn't mean its current incarnation can't be dysfunctional, inefficient, outdated and doG knows what else. Maybe, just maybe, the fault doesn't lie with the four(?) drivers that aren't members.

Also, perhaps someone should've thought of making the GPDA membership mandatory if they're only going to act as if it was anyway...

#56 Tigershark

Tigershark
  • Member

  • 996 posts
  • Joined: August 03

Posted 09 May 2008 - 16:17

Massa said he "didn't always like the way it was run". The timing doesn't seem to suggest this, but of the three directors of the GPDA, two were heavily involved in last years spy-saga (De la Rosa and Alonso). Perhaps there was some friction there as well, not to mention a certain loss of credibility.

#57 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 17,096 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 09 May 2008 - 16:53

Originally posted by Lifew12


But what do you expect the GPDA would have done about Imola 1994? The drivers back then often made noises about that particular part of the track, yet never made any moves to alter it.


GPDA was reformed on the morning of race day Imola, Senna, Schumi, berger et el were all prime movers in receating the gpda after roland's death.

Up until Roland's death in qualifying, every driver for a large time in f1 had been pretty lucky to get away with crashes, luck ran out, and everyone realised the sport is dangerous again, of cource for Senna, it would of helped if they did make changes to Imola on race day, but the attitude back then, was the show mattered more then safety, Senna's death was the last straw, then they pushed for changes to tracks and cars.


Schumacher saw Senna die, and DC replaced Senna at Williams, both these guys realised the implications of safety and f1 were ongoing, and they contributed alot to the gpda, MS worked hard , put his money into gpda, still won titles and championships, so I don't buy why Hamilton isn't involved now, safety is like a respected ritual among drivers, however some just don't care and are a bit selfish, I personally feel F1 up until Imola 1994 should be respected through committment through the GPDA, other drivers died to make changes to f1, show some respect and stay on the ball for safety etc

But maybe lots of money, fame, and driving fast cars is a bit corrupting until your faced with death, even Flavio is not the best example of a good human being, he's as selfish as they come, by all means, enjoy your money and fame, but don't forget where you've come from, from the roots of other great drivers and eras that gave birth to the safety you have now.

Maybe someone from the FIA or a new rule should be made regarding GPDA membership, should be mandatory, like a school headmaster giving a history lesson to the young childs like Hamilton, respect the safety and contribute.

#58 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 6,983 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 09 May 2008 - 16:54

Alonso says his two cents

I am puzzled why now though?

#59 Chiara

Chiara
  • Member

  • 1,847 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 09 May 2008 - 17:08

Perhaps a factor in it, is that people don't think they are getting value for what they are putting into it. Why should a top driver pay more than someone lower down the grid, does a top driver have more life threatening crashes in their career than someone who is not so successful?

Why should the top talent bank roll the vast majority of it? I think the payment to be involved should be equal and reasonably affordable.

Perhaps Massa felt he was paying in alot, but wasn't getting much out if it in terms of being listened to or represented by the those who run the GPDA. Who would want to pay their money to an organisation that isn't listening to what they want or think?

Advertisement

#60 Lifew12

Lifew12
  • Member

  • 4,551 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 09 May 2008 - 17:28

Originally posted by SeanValen


GPDA was reformed on the morning of race day Imola, Senna, Schumi, berger et el were all prime movers in receating the gpda after roland's death.

Up until Roland's death in qualifying, every driver for a large time in f1 had been pretty lucky to get away with crashes, luck ran out, and everyone realised the sport is dangerous again, of cource for Senna, it would of helped if they did make changes to Imola on race day, but the attitude back then, was the show mattered more then safety, Senna's death was the last straw, then they pushed for changes to tracks and cars.


Schumacher saw Senna die, and DC replaced Senna at Williams, both these guys realised the implications of safety and f1 were ongoing, and they contributed alot to the gpda, MS worked hard , put his money into gpda, still won titles and championships, so I don't buy why Hamilton isn't involved now, safety is like a respected ritual among drivers, however some just don't care and are a bit selfish, I personally feel F1 up until Imola 1994 should be respected through committment through the GPDA, other drivers died to make changes to f1, show some respect and stay on the ball for safety etc

But maybe lots of money, fame, and driving fast cars is a bit corrupting until your faced with death, even Flavio is not the best example of a good human being, he's as selfish as they come, by all means, enjoy your money and fame, but don't forget where you've come from, from the roots of other great drivers and eras that gave birth to the safety you have now.

Maybe someone from the FIA or a new rule should be made regarding GPDA membership, should be mandatory, like a school headmaster giving a history lesson to the young childs like Hamilton, respect the safety and contribute.


I know all that,)although I did think it was reformed at Monaco, not Imola) but the fact remains those very same drivers had been moaning about various corners prior to that Imola weekend, yet did nothing.

The same thing happens now, and has happened between then and now.

Besides, I seem to recall it was Mosley and the FIA who - at the next meeting - took things by the scruff of the neck and implicated changes.

#61 shonguiz

shonguiz
  • Member

  • 3,714 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 09 May 2008 - 17:29

Who are the pilots that aren't members of GPDA apart from kimi felipe hamilton ?

#62 djellison

djellison
  • Member

  • 1,726 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 09 May 2008 - 17:49

I want to know why people express the presumption that not being a member of the GPDA means you don't care about safety, and the assumption that the GPDA is without question or doubt, the right thing for everyone to join.

We don't know the inner workings of the GPDA, we don't know the motives of those who are and are not in it. It's up to each driver if they want to join. If they do, they do, if they don't, they don't. That's it. Anyone saying anything more than that is simply making something out of nothing to attack a driver.

Doug

#63 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 17,096 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 09 May 2008 - 18:08

Originally posted by Lifew12


I know all that,)although I did think it was reformed at Monaco, not Imola) but the fact remains those very same drivers had been moaning about various corners prior to that Imola weekend, yet did nothing.

The same thing happens now, and has happened between then and now.

Besides, I seem to recall it was Mosley and the FIA who - at the next meeting - took things by the scruff of the neck and implicated changes.



Of cource the drivers did nothing, although berger back in 89, when he had his crash at Tamberello and talked to Senna about getting rid of that "damn" wall, they inspected it, and found the river behind Tamberello prevented a major change of the wall, so that was that. Yet they didn't have the conviction to go the FIA or the track people and state changes, it was perhaps the risk involved in driving in f1 at the time, and no one had died for a while, so it wasn't followed up. The idea of chicanes like we have now there, just wasn't the flavour in that era, drivers took risks and for a long time, were lucky, until luck ran out at Imola 94. The major changes of chicanes and car changes to improve safety, things like the suspension piercing into Senna's head and being the major killer blow that killed him, was what killed him, the wall was another problem.

It's like your username my friend, LIFE, when anyone dies, suddenly people jump to do something and learn from it, yence no driver fatalities since Imola 04, lessons were learned, Senna and Roland played the large tragic heroes of the true gladitorial era of f1.


No one thinks any driver is going to die in the current f1 era, while prior to Imola 04, the Senna era and before it rid on the curves of luck and chance often, after Imola 94, enough safety has been done to f1 to make drivers feel safe, no driver will die in f1 again it seems, it just doesn't seem it will happen again, it's a different era, maybe that is also the danger, it can't be 100% safe, a freak accident like the one that killed the marshal at Monza 2000_RIP, is always possible. Wheels stay with cars now, they were likely missles before Monza 2000.

The danger to spectators is perhaps always there, we haven't seen a f1 car launch in the air until the last time back at albert park 2001 I believe, the Jacques and Ralf crash, the car didn't go through the fench or over the fench, but maybe it is possible. The hockenheim crash in 2001, MS's car went pretty high, MS's car rolled over many times at albert park practice in 2001

And MS after spinning out on that river that took many, came close to a crane at Brazil 2001, what if he crashed into it, the ferrari president Luca commented on it after the weekend.

Also marshals themselfs are always taking a risk, they more then spectators are worth looking into, the freak accident of Monza 2000 shows the element of chance in this sport.

Get alot of crashes together, alot of debris, like Spa 98 or Monza 2000 crash, and things can happen.The car is made up of many bits, all that speed, it's like scrapnel if the right crash comes along, and it'll hit some flesh. Like someone shooting a bullet far away through a wall, and it ends up hitting someone.

#64 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 6,852 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 09 May 2008 - 18:23

I think we dont have enough information to know why it is hapenning.

#65 prxty

prxty
  • Member

  • 427 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 09 May 2008 - 18:38

Originally posted by undersquare

I thought Kovy was far too nice! The barrier failed.

Why do you say that the barrier failed?

It was changed before the race from three to five levels of tyres and they where put on different hights to avoid that if it goes through the first row (impact just between two layers of tyres) it does not go through the second.

#66 archstanton

archstanton
  • Member

  • 425 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 09 May 2008 - 18:46

i'm glad the wheels are fallin off the gpda, good riddance.

these guys didn't become grand-prix drivers to fanny about shuffling paper in meetings ... their job is to drive cars too fast, smash them up a bit, and bang miss world contestents three at a time.

unions are rubbish ... these guys are the living breathing, dictionary definition of an individualist, that's why they're there and everyone in this thread isn't.
they fought for everything they got, hard as bastards, no-one gave them anything, they all can stand-up for themselves and do. anytime you think it's too dangerous, just park it.

...and that is the essence of it, just like everything else, it's up to the individual to take responsibility for their own actions, not hide behind some collectivist union bollox ... you don't like the look of the car, don't drive it.


me, i seriously doubt the mythology of the drivers/gpda and safety, i think it's tenuous and coincidental at best, there are a whole host of other far more compelling reasons and explanations for racing-safety, auto-safety and just safety in general (not just motorsport, any aspect of modern-life you care to mention is clearly much safer than it used to be, nothing to do with Jackie Stewart.)


stick to your guns boys, tell jarno and fernando where to stick it. use your subscription money to buy something shiny.

#67 GiancarloF1

GiancarloF1
  • Member

  • 925 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 09 May 2008 - 18:54

Originally posted by archstanton
i'm glad the wheels are fallin off the gpda, good riddance.

these guys didn't become grand-prix drivers to fanny about shuffling paper in meetings ... their job is to drive cars too fast, smash them up a bit, and bang miss world contestents three at a time.

unions are rubbish ... these guys are the living breathing, dictionary definition of an individualist, that's why they're there and everyone in this thread isn't.
they fought for everything they got, hard as bastards, no-one gave them anything, they all can stand-up for themselves and do. anytime you think it's too dangerous, just park it.

...and that is the essence of it, just like everything else, it's up to the individual to take responsibility for their own actions, not hide behind some collectivist union bollox ... you don't like the look of the car, don't drive it.


me, i seriously doubt the mythology of the drivers/gpda and safety, i think it's tenuous and coincidental at best, there are a whole host of other far more compelling reasons and explanations for racing-safety, auto-safety and just safety in general (not just motorsport, any aspect of modern-life you care to mention is clearly much safer than it used to be, nothing to do with Jackie Stewart.)


stick to your guns boys, tell jarno and fernando where to stick it. use your subscription money to buy something shiny.


No. These drivers are amongst the richest people in the world. They are idols to millions of people, and part of a very dangerous and also very expensive sport. They are responsible for everything F1 related. The raikkonenish "I don't care" mentality is the very last thing helps the sport reputation.

#68 archstanton

archstanton
  • Member

  • 425 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 09 May 2008 - 18:59

no, trooping along like a sap to sit in a damp portacabin while pedro tries to find the stapler is the last thing the sport needs.

kimi signing into snowmobile races as james hunt is exactly what is required.

yaaaaaaassss

#69 pottiella

pottiella
  • Member

  • 342 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 09 May 2008 - 19:14

I think Massa leaving the GPDA is more about egos clashing than anything else.

I agree with someone that for any association like that has to be slightly political to really make their voices heard by the FIA. It needs straight-talking drivers; and some drivers' egos can't handle being led by other drivers. It's in their blood not to like it...so clashes with the nature of the GPDA's intentions to work together.

I applaud the likes of DC who is one of the most experienced and outspoken, yet understands the value of allowing more influential names to take the lead of the GPDA.

#70 Juan Kerr

Juan Kerr
  • Member

  • 3,151 posts
  • Joined: October 05

Posted 09 May 2008 - 23:20

Originally posted by K-One
There might be some rift between Alonso and Massa - Webbo and Pdlr are pro Alonso as well

Yes the name Alonso is popping into my mind.

#71 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 24,367 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 10 May 2008 - 00:09

Originally posted by AlexS
I think we dont have enough information to know why it is hapenning.


Yep.

There's some sort of animosity going on between the drivers and we don't have all the details.

#72 saudoso

saudoso
  • Member

  • 6,776 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 10 May 2008 - 00:37

Originally posted by kar

Having a group of permanent representatives with the pre-agreed backing of all the racing drivers presents a much more powerful negotiating force.


The problem with this - politics - is that people will still be representatives even if they are not represeinting like everyone alse would like

#73 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 9,272 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 10 May 2008 - 01:53

personaly im in favour of unions, its been unions who have improved our quality of life in the west...

maybe they should look into reforming there organisation in various ways, but they seem pretty decent at what they do...

#74 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,250 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 10 May 2008 - 09:23

Originally posted by pingu666
personaly im in favour of unions, its been unions who have improved our quality of life in the west...


Unless of course you're one of those people that has to travel on trains or post letters and become the innocent victim of some petty dispute.

#75 Blot

Blot
  • Member

  • 32 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 10 May 2008 - 09:31

Another Felipe Massa bashing thread. :rolleyes:

#76 bogi

bogi
  • Member

  • 4,114 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 10 May 2008 - 09:49

http://forums.autosp...628#post3120628

:wave:

#77 VoidNT

VoidNT
  • Member

  • 1,561 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 10 May 2008 - 09:56

If what's going on is really just about the money, that's plainly stupid. But of course many stupid things happen in F1 because of men's greed.

#78 Knuckles

Knuckles
  • Member

  • 601 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 10 May 2008 - 17:52

Originally posted by Fatgadget
Alonso says his two cents

I am puzzled why now though?


"It is true there are drivers not in the GPDA, which is their own decision, but in my opinion it is not good," said Alonso, when asked by autosport.com about the situation regarding GPDA.



#79 riffola

riffola
  • Member

  • 940 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 10 May 2008 - 18:41

Let's not forget that in 2006 when Michael was retiring, GPDA had to *force* Alonso to become more active because they needed a WDC at the forefront to give them some clout. Until that point even Alonso was hardly involved and didn't particularly care about GPDA.

Also PdLR quit GPDA because on Indy 2005 because he was pissed off about Schumacher not endorsing the Michelin drivers' letter. So it's a bit hypocritical of them to say people not in GPDA don't care about safety.

Part of the problem is that Schumacher knew how to deal with Max and from what I've seen, DC, Trulli, Webber, et all have struggled to maintain the relationship with FIA.

Advertisement

#80 kar

kar
  • Member

  • 10,441 posts
  • Joined: January 06

Posted 10 May 2008 - 18:51

Originally posted by bogi
http://forums.autosp...628#post3120628

:wave:


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/67318 :wave:

Lewis Hamilton has said he is unmoved by calls from senior figures within the Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA) to reconsider joining the organisation, as he rubbished suggestions he had relented and agreed to donate £15,000 to it.


...

"I don't understand why I need to. I pay for my racing licence, which goes towards the FIA safety regulations. So I don't understand why I need to be paying more."



#81 bogi

bogi
  • Member

  • 4,114 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 10 May 2008 - 18:58

Well that's happen when you read shitty sites :kiss: