145 replies to this topic

[dawg_7529]

If kova stops later than lewis tomorrow, does that mean we can finally bury the thought that mclaren treats their drivers equal?

[tahadar]

?

[Burai]

Jesus, do we not have moderators around this place at all?

I thought that the year so far has been proof enough that McLaren DO treat their drivers equally.

[Atreiu]

McLaren can become a one car team and there will still be people around to say they have a second driver.

[Lifew12]

I don't think they treat them equally at all. i hear Kovalainen gets more sugar in his coffee.

[Burai]

Originally posted by Lifew12
I don't think they treat them equally at all. i hear Kovalainen gets more sugar in his coffee.

Yeah, but Lewis gets the top bunk. Also, he got a free ticket to Lazy Town Live whereas Heikki is forced to wait until January to see Disney's The Lion King On Ice.

[StefanV]

Originally posted by Lifew12
I don't think they treat them equally at all. i hear Kovalainen gets more sugar in his coffee.

Sure. But Lewis usually rushes to the coffee machine, takes his coffee and then he just stand there until there is only a minute left of the coffee break. Kovalainen have only time to put the sugar in and burn his tongue on a quick sip before he has to rush in to class.

And now we hear that Kova might have to carry more fuel, just as Kimi at Ferrari if he beats Massa in Q2
Ron


PS: Should be a general thread called "Garbage threads" and threads like this one could be merged into it. They are frustrating to read but oh so difficult to ignore

[Crazy Canuck]

Originally posted by Atreiu
McLaren can become a one car team and there will still be people around to say they have a second driver.

CC

[prxty]

Originally posted by Burai
Jesus, do we not have moderators around this place at all?

I thought that the year so far has been proof enough that McLaren DO treat their drivers equally.

I think you like to live in a dictatorship country where everybody thinks exactly like you. Wake up, others thing different than you and the moderators are not censors to impede it.

[Burai]

Word's just come in from Istanbul Park that Lewis has dibs on the next Kellogg's bike reflector out of the Frosties. But Heikki fans needn't lose heart - he's collecting the tokens off the Weetabix for a set of Roald Dahl books.

[prxty]

Originally posted by dawg_7529
If kova stops later than lewis tomorrow, does that mean we can finally bury the thought that mclaren treats their drivers equal?

Last year they did not allow Alonso to choose his strategy on when to stop. Therefore they "forced" both drivers to stop at the same lap. We will not see this this year. Guess why.

[Burai]

Originally posted by prxty

I think you like to live in a dictatorship country where everybody thinks exactly like you. Wake up, others thing different than you and the moderators are not censors to impede it.

Because this thread isn't born of free speech, it's born of stupidity.

The race hasn't happened yet. This thread shouldn't exist until tomorrow and even then there's only a 50/50 chance of it being reasonable.

[StefanV]

Originally posted by Burai


Because this thread isn't born of free speech, it's born of stupidity.

True words.

[MikeTekRacing]

Originally posted by prxty

Last year they did not allow Alonso to choose his strategy on when to stop. Therefore they "forced" both drivers to stop at the same lap. We will not see this this year. Guess why.

you mean they forced both to take the same amount of fuel in q3, not forced them to stop at the same lap

[Nobody]

I'll just wait for Kova to slow on the last corner of the last lap to hand Lewis his position.

Until that happens, I will believe what I like.

[Devero]

In all races before Turkey Kova was heavier in Q3 and despite that outqualified the "Trojan flying Apollo" on 2 occasions.
We will see tomorrow and if that will be the case again that Kova is having more fuel that means something, I tell you.

Namely this will be complete confirmation of the fact that the team discriminates one of its drivers and prevent one to fight for higher places on the grid.

[bankoq]

Originally posted by dawg_7529
If kova stops later than lewis tomorrow, does that mean we can finally bury the thought that mclaren treats their drivers equal?

You're blind or something, because actually in all races Kovalainen was heavier, although he looked faster in practices and in some Q1&Q2. Is that your proof of equality?

We don't know about Turkey yet, but from drivers' quotes we might figure out that Heikke is ONCE AGAIN heavier, and once again outqualified Hamilton. But you can live in your own world, it's just your decision.

[DriveFastLiveSlow]

I think Heikki is doing very well. His first season at McL, the accident in the last race and he is getting the better of Hamilton. I expect him to do very well in the latter part of the season. Even compared to his much praised team mate.

[bankoq]

Yes, he is just faster in qualifying than Lewis. So what? The team doesn't let him to exploit his qualy potential, because he's always heavier. I wouldn't say it's fair or equal...

[dawg_7529]

Originally posted by Burai


Because this thread isn't born of free speech, it's born of stupidity.

The race hasn't happened yet. This thread shouldn't exist until tomorrow and even then there's only a 50/50 chance of it being reasonable.

Would you like me to rephrase it and say: Can we bury the thought mclaren treats their drivers equal now that in all 4 races in 2008, mclaren decided to give lewis preferential treatment in qualifying? Why cant you mclaren fan boys simply lay down, face the facts and admit mclaren employs teamorders in favor of lewis all season, and prolly have done the same in 2007?

[f1rules]

Originally posted by dawg_7529


Would you like me to rephrase it and say: Can we bury the thought mclaren treats their drivers equal now that in all 4 races in 2008, mclaren decided to give lewis preferential treatment in qualifying? Why cant you mclaren fan boys simply lay down, face the facts and admit mclaren employs teamorders in favor of lewis all season, and prolly have done the same in 2007?

what a remark priceless, please shut down this thread

[kismet]

Depends on how you look at it... If Heikki had as much race pace as he has qualifying pace (relatively speaking), his slightly longer first stints would likely win him the intra-team battle at McLaren. It's not an inferior strategy per se.

[dawg_7529]

Yes, lets close down all threads questioning mclaren/lewis hamilton and only sing praise the lord and ron dennis, for they are soooo holy ;)

Is it so hard to answer the question should we bury the thought of equal treatment now that its obvious lewis gets the advantage each and every qualifysession?

[dawg_7529]

Originally posted by kismet
Depends on how you look at it... If Heikki had as much race pace as he has qualifying pace (relatively speaking), his slightly longer first stints would likely win him the intra-team battle at McLaren. It's not an inferior strategy per se .

That is true and you have a point. Nevertheless i dont see it as equal treatment.

[harrows]

Originally posted by dawg_7529


Would you like me to rephrase it and say: Can we bury the thought mclaren treats their drivers equal now that in all 4 races in 2008, mclaren decided to give lewis preferential treatment in qualifying? Why cant you mclaren fan boys simply lay down, face the facts and admit mclaren employs teamorders in favor of lewis all season, and prolly have done the same in 2007?

Well, in the first 5 races of 07, with the exception of Bahrain, Alonso was always fuelled lighter. So it can be said he enjoyed a similar advantage at the start.
However, I do agree that they started to favour Hamilton more from Canada onwards, or atleast gave him a better chance to win.

[Chiara]

I think its a little bit easy to forget sometimes that a racing driver and his race engineer do actually have some input into the strategy that is chosen for their side of the garage. It's not just dictated to them.

Only one driver can get the optimal strategy, the other has to go either a bit lighter or a bit heavier so they are not forced to pit on the same lap - which is sensible. Perhaps the impression that Kovy is always heavier could be due to either personal preference or tyre wear?

I'm pretty sure it has been mentioned a heap of times that Lewis's driving style is very aggressive particularly on the rear tyres, so perhaps he is brought in earlier to minimise a drop off in performance, while Kovy pits a bit later because his tyre use is not so aggressive?

[Ricardo F1]

Good grief.

[prxty]

Originally posted by Burai


Because this thread isn't born of free speech, it's born of stupidity.

The race hasn't happened yet. This thread shouldn't exist until tomorrow and even then there's only a 50/50 chance of it being reasonable.

Then you are even more stupid to loose your time posting in a stupid thread. Or it's only intelligent if you open it?
Speak yourself about stupidity but do it with the mirror please.

[Peter Perfect]

Originally posted by dawg_7529
Yes, lets close down all threads questioning mclaren/lewis hamilton and only sing praise the lord and ron dennis, for they are soooo holy ;)

What?! All of them?! Can't we leave a couple of hundred open?

Seriously. This forum has become a bit of a joke over the last 12 months. Believe it or not Hamilton is not the only F1 driver on the grid. How about we try to keep the number of active Hamilton threads down to a single digit?

[prxty]

Originally posted by bankoq
Yes, he is just faster in qualifying than Lewis. So what? The team doesn't let him to exploit his qualy potential, because he's always heavier. I wouldn't say it's fair or equal...

Last year it was. This year not. I got it. Typical hiypocresy from Mclaren.

[StefanV]

I can't stand it. I tried. I feel I *must* respond to 'dawg_7529', but what do one say to such a person?
I feel weak. I must use the ignore list.

[prxty]

Originally posted by Chiara
I think its a little bit easy to forget sometimes that a racing driver and his race engineer do actually have some input into the strategy that is chosen for their side of the garage. It's not just dictated to them.

Only one driver can get the optimal strategy, the other has to go either a bit lighter or a bit heavier so they are not forced to pit on the same lap - which is sensible.

You are right. It is sensible, except for Mclaren, year 2007. Or can he extrapolate for Mclaren if LH drives for them and the other drive is faster.

[Anomnader]

Originally posted by StefanV
I can't stand it. I tried. I feel I *must* respond to 'dawg_7529', but what do one say to such a person?
I feel weak. I must use the ignore list.

True, I was hopping now would respond to this thread and it would disappear, people shouldn't reply to the trolls like dawg and seb and looks like prxty making a try to join them.


I thought this was one of the cleanest F1 weekends for agest, a perfect qualifying, same some people have to spoil it.

[airwise]

Originally posted by Burai
Jesus, do we not have moderators around this place at all?

It would be nice to see some of the blatent trolling and stupidity removed - improving the SN ratio of the whole board in the process.

[prxty]

Originally posted by StefanV
I can't stand it. I tried. I feel I *must* respond to 'dawg_7529', but what do one say to such a person?
I feel weak. I must use the ignore list.

You don't feel weak. You are weak, as weak are your arguments. Go ignore half of the board. The BB can live without you. Didn't you know?

[Tengil]

I'm just pleasantly surprised neither Martin Brundle nor Prince Harry is to blame, according to dawg they usually are...

[jesee]

Originally posted by dawg_7529
If kova stops later than lewis tomorrow, does that mean we can finally bury the thought that mclaren treats their drivers equal?

They don't treat them equally cause:

-Lewis has a bigger bed and always get the bedtime stories first.

-His car has one more than kova...it is 23 while kova's is 22.

-He didn't crash in barcelona like kova.

-Heikki did not become a God and was not hung on a trapeze like lewis.

-Heikki's dad is not allowed in the paddock!

-Heikki is not allowed to choose the hard tyre like today......etc etc.

[StefanV]

Originally posted by prxty

You don't feel weak. You are weak, as weak are your arguments. Go ignore half of the board. The BB can live without you. Didn't you know?

My arguments? Those were no arguments, it was words of despair. And your post did not help me.

[archstanton]

Originally posted by Anomnader


True, I was hopping now would respond to this thread and it would disappear, people shouldn't reply to the trolls like dawg and seb and looks like prxty making a try to join them.


I thought this was one of the cleanest F1 weekends for agest, a perfect qualifying, same some people have to spoil it.

exactly ... and this observation clearly reveals precisely the motives and methods of these juvenile trolling numbskulls.
they have been shown up for what they are, that they are not interested in a grand prix weekend ... they only use the board to indulge their egos, hear the sound of their own voice, spread stupidity and noisily stir **** ... and if, as happened today, there is nothing to actually whine about, they'll just invent pointless time-wasting threads like this regardless, they don't care.

non-entities the lot of them, best ignored (better removed) this place should have a childrens table where all these babies can be put, so the grown ups don't have their weekend spoiled with their squabbles.

[Schumeister]

I don't think there is much to choose between the two drivers, this most likley causes Mclaren a big headache on decidning Quali / Race strategy. I think they are purley giving Hamilton the optimum starategy because they feel he has the best chance of winning the WDC.
In a few races this season Kovi has out qualified Hami when fuel correction has been calculated. It would appear this time that Kovi has out qualified Hami with more fuel on board.
I do wonder if Hami is lighter then Massa also? - he did seem very disapointed in the Press conf.?

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

Originally posted by dawg_7529
If kova stops later than lewis tomorrow, does that mean we can finally bury the thought that mclaren treats their drivers equal?

No, because it wouldn't provide a shred of evidence to the contrary.

[Two Jags]

Originally posted by Schumeister

I do wonder if Hami is lighter then Massa also? - he did seem very disapointed in the Press conf.?

One of the journos asked him about that later in the press conference:

Q: (Ian Parkes - The Press Association) Lewis, you have said you are very disappointed and your body language suggests you are not too happy if you don't mind me saying...

Hamilton: I just need the toilet, that's all!

[Schumeister]

Originally posted by Two Jags


One of the journos asked him about that later in the press conference:

Q: (Ian Parkes - The Press Association) Lewis, you have said you are very disappointed and your body language suggests you are not too happy if you don't mind me saying...

Hamilton: I just need the toilet, that's all!

Very good Hami At least he can still laugh about it!

Seriously though I do feel that Kovi is heavier than Hamilton, however Hami will most likely pass him at the start (Once Kimi has gone past them both!)

[Panch]

Some Finnish reporter asked Heikki why is he always hevier, in Barcelona he had 9kg more fuel than Hamilton. Heikki said that you should ask that question from the team..

[dawg_7529]

Originally posted by archstanton



exactly ... and this observation clearly reveals precisely the motives and methods of these juvenile trolling numbskulls.
they have been shown up for what they are, that they are not interested in a grand prix weekend ... they only use the board to indulge their egos, hear the sound of their own voice, spread stupidity and noisily stir **** ... and if, as happened today, there is nothing to actually whine about, they'll just invent pointless time-wasting threads like this regardless, they don't care.

non-entities the lot of them, best ignored (better removed) this place should have a childrens table where all these babies can be put, so the grown ups don't have their weekend spoiled with their squabbles.

Now now, hold your horses sonnyboy. You make it sound like it comes out of the blue, has no relevance at all to current or past events and its polution for the forum. Why not join the vodafone mclaren mercedes forum? Im sure youl have no critics to either mclaren or lewis there.

As it is, the casual, intelligent fan has to deal with the following events:

- A brit press who cried alonso asked for a number one driver treatment at mclaren.
- The rest of the worlds press who believe alonso was held back against hamilton in the majority of the 2007 campaign.
- Ron Dennis literarly crying tears rolling down his cheeks swearing on his mothers eyes the only time he had preferential treatment was at melbourne 98.
- The FIA installing a monitor in the mclaren garage to try and prevent any deliberate preference towards hamilton in the lattter races of 2007.
- Ron Dennis crying Renault ahs broken heiki and mclaren trying to rebuilt.
- The numerous venomous hatred posts in this forum about schumachers so called number one status.

Considering all that, I think asking a simple question if heikkis heavier qualify fuelload proves that mclaren does not treat their drivers equal, is not so crazy one.

[dawg_7529]

Originally posted by Chiara
I think its a little bit easy to forget sometimes that a racing driver and his race engineer do actually have some input into the strategy that is chosen for their side of the garage. It's not just dictated to them.

?

I was toying with this idea too but in the end concluded since qualifying is so important these days, the driver would always opt for the lightest posible fuel scenario. And if it was one race this driver, the other race that one it would be equal. As it is it seems lewis gets preferential treatment from blue eyed ron dennis.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by kismet
Depends on how you look at it... If Heikki had as much race pace as he has qualifying pace (relatively speaking), his slightly longer first stints would likely win him the intra-team battle at McLaren. It's not an inferior strategy per se.

True, but these days qualifying is 90% of the race, and it is better to qualify higher with a little less fuel than it is to qualify lower with some more fuel, unless the fuel diff is really big. Just read this: http://www.iltasanom...ormula1/1529744 (Heikki was asked about why he is qualifying with more fuel than Lewis, and Heikki replies that you need to ask the team why that is the case.) It does seem like Kova isn't choosing to qualify with a heavier load than LH; McL just force it on him. Now, we don't know if this is the case in Turkey, but if it is, then the case is becoming quite clear: LH is being favored, the intention is that he would qualify and then finish the race ahead of Heikki. Unfortunately, Heikki isn't complying.

[internetf1]

Originally posted by HSJ


True, but these days qualifying is 90% of the race, and it is better to qualify higher with a little less fuel than it is to qualify lower with some more fuel, unless the fuel diff is really big. Just read this: http://www.iltasanom...ormula1/1529744 (Heikki was asked about why he is qualifying with more fuel than Lewis, and Heikki replies that you need to ask the team why that is the case.) It does seem like Kova isn't choosing to qualify with a heavier load than LH; McL just force it on him. Now, we don't know if this is the case in Turkey, but if it is, then the case is becoming quite clear: LH is being favored, the intention is that he would qualify and then finish the race ahead of Heikki. Unfortunately, Heikki isn't complying.

Kimi is almost always heavier than Massa and no one complains about Kimi having the preferential treatment there. I fail to see how starting heavier in a Ferrari for Kimi is ad advantage, but for Kova is a disadvantage. So far this year, Kova has been lagging behind LH in race pace.

On the other and, if it is preferential treatment, so what? I am reading the Barrichello thread and almost everyone there is defending MS. Funny how hypocrisy works. Kova hasn't shown anything special during the races that should warrant McLaren giving him preferential treatment.

In fact, if LH did get fuelled heavier than HK, you guys would be the first to accuse McLaren of giving preferential treatment to LH so that he can leapfrog HK in the pits like Kimi always does.

[DiStefano]

Originally posted by internetf1

Kova hasn't shown anything special during the races that should warrant McLaren giving him preferential treatment.

No one is asking for "preferential treatment", just equal treatment.
And you say Kova hasn't shown anything special, how's outqualifying Lewis in all races (fuel corrected) not good enough?

[internetf1]

Originally posted by DiStefano


No one is asking for "preferential treatment", just equal treatment.
And you say Kova hasn't shown anything special, how's outqualifying Lewis in all races (fuel corrected) not good enough?

Qualifying isn't everything. Kova fades away during the races. If qualifying was everything then Massa would be the WDC. On the other hand, Hamilton is has never been a good qualifier. 2007 was an anamoly because of a car that was suited for qualifying as well as a team mate who wasn't much of a qualifier either.
You judge a driver by the race pace, and LH has HK covered.