670 replies to this topic

[Spunout]

Originally posted by tormave

With the race pace advantage Ferrari had it should have been a lot more difficult if not impossible for Hamilton to pass Massa.

Uh, ABCs of racing: race pace is NOT the point here. What matters is their relative pace when Hamilton made the move. He was clearly faster at the time. This kinda reminds me of common (and wrong) assumptions that fastest car of the season was fastest car in every single race.

[Christian Szymczak]

Has anyone thought that it may have been better for Massa to let Hamilton through at that stage? I don't think he purposely let him past, but if you have a quicker car behind you and you are constantly on the defensive, it slows you down quite alot. If you slow down too much you risk cars in 3rd and 4th catching up.

In hindsight, letting Lewis through right away may have won the race for him. I don't know if Kimi could have challenged, but you see my point.

[Italiano Tifoso]

Originally posted by Christian Szymczak
Has anyone thought that it may have been better for Massa to let Hamilton through at that stage? I don't think he purposely let him past, but if you have a quicker car behind you and you are constantly on the defensive, it slows you down quite alot. If you slow down too much you risk cars in 3rd and 4th catching up.

In hindsight, letting Lewis through right away may have won the race for him. I don't know if Kimi could have challenged, but you see my point.

Yes i made this point yesterday, but i don't think Massa actually thought it through to be honest, he simply got beaten by Lewis into that corner.

[Digitaldrug]

Originally posted by Spunout


Uh, ABCs of racing: race pace is NOT the point here. What matters is their relative pace when Hamilton made the move. He was clearly faster at the time. This kinda reminds me of common (and wrong) assumptions that fastest car of the season was fastest car in every single race.

Are you aware that the biggest problem in f1 for a decade has been the inability of cars to pass each other despite being clearly faster? Havent you seen race after race where clearly faster cars have been stuck behind clearly slower ones for 60 laps? Its hilarious to hear all these arguments defending Massa, simply because Hamilton was clearly faster. If being clearly faster was all you needed to overtake, we wouldnt have an over taking problem in F1. Massa had a clear top speed advantage anyway so Hamilton could not have been clearly faster on that section of track.

[Italiano Tifoso]

Originally posted by Digitaldrug


Are you aware that the biggest problem in f1 for a decade has been the inability of cars to pass each other despite being clearly faster? Havent you seen race after race where clearly faster cars have been stuck behind clearly slower ones for 60 laps? Its hilarious to hear all these arguments defending Massa, simply because Hamilton was clearly faster. If being clearly faster was all you needed to overtake, we wouldnt have an over taking problem in F1. Massa had a clear top speed advantage anyway so Hamilton could not have been clearly faster on that section of track.

Yes the Ferrari had better top speed throughout the weekend, but Lewis was assisted by Massa's brain fart exiting the last corner and then not properly defending his line. A bad corner exit compromised any top speed advantage Massa may of had.

Regardless it was Massa's error entirely and a confident Lewis that made the move stick.

[AFCA]

Some more points:

-Dernie: ''I used to spent two days a week in Cologne. But since Bahrain I come to the races and it is planned for me to visit the all the remaining ones also. I will only seldomly be in the factory.''

Some wise words about experience: ''I've never read in a book or magazine the real trick with which you make a car really go faster. With the aerodynamics as well as with the set-up of the car, there are a certain things you simply cannot learn theoratically. So you can recrute as many well educated young engineers as you like, they won't know the real tricks.''

Toyota brought rear brake ducts with a different shape to Istanbul. The effect was having a greater aerodynamic efficiency despite having a greater cooling air intake. Glock: ''For my driving style it hasn't made a difference. It makes the overall package a bit more efficient.''

On the competition: ''Renault is at least on our level, if not a bit in front of us. But I wouldn't say they're miles ahead.''

Howett admits: ''You've got to be honest: at the moment Red Bull is a few tenths ahead. But it's also dependent on the track. McLaren was a lot closer (to Ferrari) than elsewhere. Perhaps the same goes for Red Bull.''

- Williams concentrated on the front of the car, Michael: ''We've had a new front wing, but only for Rosberg. It brings more downforce.''

Rosberg: ''We've brought things to Istanbul that we actually wanted to introduce at a later stage. But only part of the (aerodynamical) updates.''

''Red Bull and Renault - with Alonso - have really made a great leap forward. We must really watch out not to loose too much ground.''

Williams has a different development programme than the others and the much awaited mechanical parts are still not there. The German driver scored one point but Webber and Alonso were out of reach.

Despite having said the same about Turkey in Spain, Rosberg remains optimistic: ''The upcoming circuits are Williams-circuits.''

- Renault and McLaren have a J-damper, it's symbolic language just like V represents speed and F force. Williams calls their massdamper I-damper. Red Bull has a K-damper, Horner explains: ''We don't want our system to be called like that of McLaren, and K is the next letter in the alphabet.''

The very effective damper explains the steps forward made by Renault (introduced in Spain) and Red Bull (introduced last weekend).

- Marko: ''We should have actually solely been concentrating on the new car. But we can't afford that because we'd only be 14th on the grid when we would loose out two tenths to the others.'' Therefore Red Bull needs to develop with greater pace than planned. The ressources in Milton Keynes need to be split up and working shifts is necessary.

Marko isn't quite happy with the outcome of Red Bull's race. Webber lost out on P6 by 0,4 seconds because of his first pitstop. ''He lost against Alonso at the start and then the pitstop wasn't good. Firstly his inlap wasn't quick enough and secondly the lollipopman was too slow. It's annoying to only collect two points when we could have finished sixth and eigth.''

Red Bull isn't particularly happy with KERS. They buy the system from Magneti Marelli. Alex Hitzinger (ex-Cosworth) is occupied with the research of the batteries.

Marko: ''One battery costs € 60,000 and apperantly only lasts for one race.''

Mateschitz' right hand goes on complaining: ''There's 400 voltage and carbon fibre is a great conductor...''

On top of that RBR (and STR) rapidly go through all of their suspension parts with the many incidents the drivers have. After Webber's crash on Friday the team had just one spare kit of suspension parts left. That's also why the debut of the STR3 was delayed. The two chassis' were actually ready but the lack of suspenion parts meant the introduction of the new car had to be postponed. Berger: ''For a race you need to have three rearsuspensions and four frontsuspensions.''

Toro Rosso will only get suspesnion parts that are one step behind those of Red Bull. Berger: ''A topteam, which is what Red Bull is, brings new parts to every race. They're already a step ahead of us when we're driving at Monaco with their Barcelona specification.''

But Berger clarifies that more is different to the car than just the suspensions: ''Having a different engine already means having a different car for 30%.''

The 50% teamowner denies having been on the look out for potential buyers in Kuwait recently: ''I've been looking for sponsors there, but I didn't find any.''

''I don't have anything to say about Mateschitz' shares. Of course you could try to find someone that takes over his shares to then continue with the team working with that person. But I'm not sure at all if that's what I really want. Many millionaires walk in and out of the Energy Station only willing to have earphones on. But they underestimate what F1 is about. This here is 'real business.'''

''When you do everything on your own as a privateer, then you're where Super Aguri or Force India are. We're in a better position with the possibilities we have. We're only behind by a bit. But if we can drive at the same level of Red Bull come Canada, then it would be a great step forward for Toro Rosso.''

[AFCA]

Already looking ahead to Canda....the organisers of the race have confirmed that a number of modifcations to the circuit have been made. The costs for making the track safer, for improvements to the stands, the paddock area and the hygienic services are around $ 4,5 million.

[Atreiu]

Was anything done where Kubica crashed last year?

[AFCA]

Originally posted by Atreiu
Was anything done where Kubica crashed last year?

http://ca.news.yahoo..._f1_canadian_gp

[color]

http://en.f1-live.co...514103739.shtml

unbelievable photo, btw...

[tormave]

Originally posted by Italiano Tifoso
Yes the Ferrari had better top speed throughout the weekend, but Lewis was assisted by Massa's brain fart exiting the last corner and then not properly defending his line. A bad corner exit compromised any top speed advantage Massa may of had.

Regardless it was Massa's error entirely and a confident Lewis that made the move stick.

I still think the Brazilian feathered the throttle in the corner a bit too long on purpose - only to achieve the exactly the outcome we saw on TV. Very clever and not an error at all.

[bogi]

Originally posted by color
http://en.f1-live.co...514103739.shtml

unbelievable photo, btw...

There is episode on Discovery about carbon in F1, and John Barnard said when the crash occurred this flying pieces is better because energy absorb.

[kar]

Indeed, Ever do that egg exercise at school where you have to design a basket that will cushion a 2m drop?

The ones that do best in that are ones that use foam that breaks apart on impact, not the ones with the most cotton padding

[Mika Mika]

Originally posted by color
http://en.f1-live.co...514103739.shtml

unbelievable photo, btw...

Hard to believe there is a human in the middle of all of that!

[Josta]

Originally posted by color
http://en.f1-live.co...514103739.shtml

unbelievable photo, btw...

LOL, DC was more interested in toilet facilities than safety after the Kubica crash.

[Josta]

Originally posted by kar
Indeed, Ever do that egg exercise at school where you have to design a basket that will cushion a 2m drop?

The ones that do best in that are ones that use foam that breaks apart on impact, not the ones with the most cotton padding

So you suggest F1 cars should be made of foam? They would need a hell of a ballast.

[*MJC1*]

Off topic but anyway...........

Posted over in the Tech forum under Kubica crash an unseen video of Kubicas Cananda smash.

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by *MJC1*
Off topic but anyway...........

Posted over in the Tech forum under Kubica crash an unseen video of Kubicas Cananda smash.

Remaining off topic, that's the nastiest crash I've ever seen in F1.

[DoubleWDC]

Originally posted by saudoso


Are you Micra?

In the LH X FA pool you say FA did no wrong, despite the obvious releasing of the right pedal to get behind KR, being in the inner side that is. Here Massa, from the outside, didn't do his job right.

This twisted logic must belong to Micra.

Please review both situations and tell us what you think:

KR was past FA already BEFORE the braking zone with the help of Ferrari's superior straightline speed. So at that point FA's actions were irrelevant since he had already lost his position. Massa braked way earlier than Hamilton and just conceded his position. But thanks for providing links which confirm I'm right.

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by Atreiu
I'd never thought I'd see people actually blame Massa for Kimi not doing his job.

I've heard it all before. Montoya was equally blamed for deliberately brake-testing Monteiro at the same event in 2005 so Alonso could pass Montoya when he spun off on the next lap due to a broken diffuser in an effort to prevent Kimi from being champion. It was even brought up in this thread before when someone said 'is Massa the new Montoya'.

We are talking about The League Of Extraordinary Kimi Fanatics here you know, it's only expected.

[donald29]

Just something I thought I'd mention, I thought the onboard shot of the safety driver was pretty good.