123 replies to this topic

[Josta]

Originally posted by Andretti Fan
Some of the drivers mentioned, like Lagorce, Longnes, McCarthy, Andretti, etc had some ( or in Andretti's case......GREAT success in other areas of racing. While F1 success may have been fleeting or nonexsistant, they were good drivers.

Some drivers mentioned here, Al Pease and Otto Stuppacher for example, while probably nice enough guys, had no business being in ANY race car, let alone in Formula One . I think these are more along the lines of what the OP was looking for.

Certainly any of these guys ( and gals ) could drive a race car beter than any of us who post here .

Andretti did well in the US series, but that had crappy competition. Look at Mansell. He just turned up and thrashed everyone in his rookie year. Formula 1 is a whole different ball game to the local American series.

Michael Andretti was a **** F1 driver. That is a fact that cannot be contested.

[Risil]

Originally posted by Josta


Andretti did well in the US series, but that had crappy competition. Look at Mansell. He just turned up and thrashed everyone in his rookie year. Formula 1 is a whole different ball game to the local American series.

No he didn't. He won four races out of a calendar of sixteen. Only one of which was on a road course, after his two chief adversaries somehow managed to lose it. Nige may not have been at the peak of his powers by 1993, but he had a much harder time winning the title in America than he did a year earlier in Europe.

I think numerous people in America remarked at the time that Michael was the wrong kind of Indycar driver to succeed in F1. He was "sloppy", able to repair his mistakes and inaccuracies via determination, aggression and, of course, caution periods. Villeneuve of course did very well in Formula One, winning as many races in his first season there as he did in his title year in CART.

And added to that, of course, was the fact that some drivers were just not motivated, adaptable, or committed enough to make the transition from one form of racing to a subtly different one. Just look at Nelson Piquet, three-time Formula One World Champion.

[donald29]

Originally posted by Elspeth
Bernie.

lol I saw some 50 years on article and one of them was "50 years ago Bernie fails to qualify for his only GP... 50 years on he owns Formula 1."

[Josta]

Originally posted by Risil


No he didn't. He won four races out of a calendar of sixteen. Only one of which was on a road course, after his two chief adversaries somehow managed to lose it. Nige may not have been at the peak of his powers by 1993, but he had a much harder time winning the title in America than he did a year earlier in Europe.

Rookie beat all the yanks in his rookie year. To compare CART to F1 is like comparing British F3 to F1. It is a local series, and everyone on the field would give their right eye to move UP to F1. Both Villeneuve and Montoya, (both former champs), have said that to go to IRL would be a considerable move down from F1.

[Risil]

Originally posted by Josta

It is a local series, and everyone on the field would give their right eye to move UP to F1.

Robby Gordon.

Originally posted by Josta

Rookie beat all the yanks in his rookie year.

In fact Paul Tracy had some prior experience in CART, although 1993 was his first full season.

[dutra]

To me, Deletraz followed by Inoue and Adams. I'm only counting the ones I saw.

Another question: It's more dificult to choose the best of all time or the worst of all time?

[fukkinen]

The worst [ = most evil ] driver of F1 is Michael Schumacker.

Slim Borgud (ABBA) as special guest.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by dutra

Another question: It's more dificult to choose the best of all time or the worst of all time?

Both exercises are equally useless. And equally difficult as well.

Who was better - Juan Manuel Fangio or Ayrton Senna?
Who was worse - Ottorino Volonterio or Paul Belmondo?

Impossible to elaborate.

[Risil]

Originally posted by fukkinen
The worst [ = most evil ] driver of F1 is Michael Schumacker.

Slim Borgud (ABBA) as special guest.

By means of guilt-by-association, I can accept that Slim Borgudd must therefore be one of the most evil men the sport has ever known. But Michael Schumacher? I can't think of any perfectly good evenings he's ruined with his Eurovision Song Contest entries. Yet, at least.

[fukkinen]

Originally posted by Risil


By means of guilt-by-association, I can accept that Slim Borgudd must therefore be one of the most evil men the sport has ever known. But Michael Schumacher? I can't think of any perfectly good evenings he's ruined with his Eurovision Song Contest entries. Yet, at least.

Well, actually I was making fun about the word 'worse' meaning not the lack of skills, but about the character...

but thinking better,

what does make a driver 'bad'?
Are there any parameters?
Maybe...
> going off track
> putting other drivers out of the track
> crashing

I believe Schumacher is the absolute champion in all of those itens. LOL

Calm down people, I'm kidding. Drop the stones, please.

Of course those absolute numbers are diluted in the great number of GP contested...
but in the other hand, Schumacker always had great equipment... hummm...

I would raise the numbers if I had the Autocourses since 1990, but I don't want to go into a crusade against the Schumackertologists church.

[wingwalker]

Originally posted by D.M.N.




Why didn't Schlesser just go a bit into the gravel to let Ayrton through. There again, it could be argued Senna could of left him more room.

Uhm, that is EXACTLY what he did. At the moment of contact he has two wheels on the gravel. Senna was at fault here, he simply cut across the track like the other car wasn't there. He had plenty of room on his right.


As for the worst drivers, I only know the recent days, and I recall that Rosset dude. What was he even doing there?

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by Sleep
What is the point of this thread? Why do people sometimes feel it's necessary to degrade others? Why?

Look who's talking Your campaign against Ron Dennis got you banned from this place, twice. I can smell you a mile away, 512 TR, with your hypocrisy (skenhelig) accusations. Have a shot of Campari and go back and pester your own board, Greig love your kind over at TSN

[Bob Nomates 2nd]

the last women driver, can't remember her name. women don't make good f1 drivers

[fukkinen]

Well, Scott Speed has just won the Dover round of NASCAR Truck Series.
Shall we discard his name?

[Slyder]

... all NASCAR drivers are utter garbage anyways...



























;)

Speed IMO was at the wrong team at the right time. I don't think he's REALLY great, but he wasn't bad.

[3.5L_V12]

Originally posted by 9 Degrees 12 Min
Have we forgotten Ricardo Rosset?

Martin Brundle had a great response to Murray Walker's query whether Rosset was F1 quality. "It's a fairly short debate."

1998 was a particularly forgettable year for Ricardo. Demolished his racing car in practice for Monaco, received a warning from the stewards, and his enraged mechanics purportedly switched the first and last letters of his surname to form the word "tosser".

Even though the conditions were atrocious at Spa the same year, I'll never forget Rosset crashing at full speed into the 14-car pile-up. I still have that on VHS and Derek Daly is brutal in his assessment of Rosset's skills on the many replays of the crash.

Was it '98 at Monaco where he span in one session at the Swimming Pool IIRC - somehow without hitting the barriers and leaving the car driveable but facing the wrong way. He then proceeded to display such deft car control by attempting to 'donut' the car 180 degrees, slamming the car into the small access point gap in the Armco?

That was a glorious moment.

Ah, yes, I see it was.

[Jerome]

quote:Originally posted by 9 Degrees 12 Min
Have we forgotten Ricardo Rosset?

Martin Brundle had a great response to Murray Walker's query whether Rosset was F1 quality. "It's a fairly short debate."

1998 was a particularly forgettable year for Ricardo. Demolished his racing car in practice for Monaco, received a warning from the stewards, and his enraged mechanics purportedly switched the first and last letters of his surname to form the word "tosser".

Even though the conditions were atrocious at Spa the same year, I'll never forget Rosset crashing at full speed into the 14-car pile-up. I still have that on VHS and Derek Daly is brutal in his assessment of Rosset's skills on the many replays of the crash.



Ehmm... Derek Daly is a nice bloke. But he knows a little something himself about being to eager at the start doesn't he? Not meaning that someone who has done something wrong will never be able to criticise someone else... but Derek Daly crashed A LOT when he was at Tyrrel, and was criticised exactly because his overzealous driving...

[TecnoRacing]

"Al Pease....or the Eagle was a loada crap"

Well he was running an Eagle with a climax (!) engine (an underpowered stop gap measure back in 1966) in 1969 against winged, 450HP machinery - The eagle was not crap of course, just way past its prime

[fukkinen]

Originally posted by Jerome
Have we forgotten Ricardo Rosset?
[/B]

Well, RR will have a chance to redeem himself in Brasil's GT3, where he will race 5 F1 WDCs in the form of Emerson Fittipaldi and Nelson Piquet, the one and only.

[Rosemayer]

Juan Pablo Montoya his last race at Indy where he took out Kimi and 6 other cars on the first lap.

[Peter Leversedge]

The thing I hate most about motor racing is people sitting on bar stools [ "bar stool racers" ] that knock people that are out there racing or trying to race. In most cases they have done no racing yet are experts as how it should be done. All racers are great, it is just that some are greater than others

[David M. Kane]

Peter you're a bloody genius!

A better topic would be, "who squandered their talent more?"

[Topweasel]

I would vote Ide, I think he was the only one I saw in my short time watching F1 (10 years) to actually lose his Super License for his actions or lack thereof on track.

Yoong, Marques, and a few other back marker (rent a car) saps for the most part only got in the way andor couldn't qualify.

My Personal Philosophy is if you have to pay to play then F1 isn't for you.

Edit: Not counting the Alonso's or Massa's where they were paid but the team paying them didn't have a car so they parked them and some money to a lower car. Its the sponsor packages I don't like.

[John B]

What's classic on that Rosset Monaco clip is the tires lighting up as he goes straight into the gap a few feet away (and the marshall who comes out with his hand up)

If we're evaluating Andretti and Mansell's 1993 seasons as part of this discussion, then what about the following year, when they competed in CART with the same Ford engine and MA beat him on wins and points (both far behind the Penskes, which had a huge advantage that year) despite being in a Ganassi Reynard?