169 replies to this topic

[D.M.N.]

There's several thing that made me felt embarrased to say that I am an F1 fan. 2005 US GP was obviously embarrasing for the sport and for fans around the world, and at that time, quite frankly, I felt like turning off that farce.

Same goes for Austria 2002, which, although I am a Ferrari fan, was also a farce. What do you think has been the most embarrasing moment in F1 history?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Indy.

[Mika Mika]

Originally posted by D.M.N.

Indy... I feel the consiquenses of which are still having after effects...

[JForce]

I'm a Ferrari fan and I think it was Austria 2002. To me it was far more cringe-worthy than Indy, but I guess it ultimately depends on who you're talking about being embarassed to, if you know what I mean.

[kar]

Indy or Austria. The political and off-track embarrassments are bad, but nothing quite smarts so much as losing the appearance of integrity in the actual product itself. And that product is the race on Sundays.

[Piif]

I voted for Indy but Austria is a close second. I wasn't embarrassed for Indy though, I was just angry. In Austria I couldn't believe that Ferrari would spit on their fans faces like that but they did - something I'm never gonna forget.

[Mika Mika]

At Least In Austria it was only a few mins (on track) that were embarasing, and the confirmation that the Michael was the No 1, at Ferrari (although anyone who didnt know this before was not the sharpest chizzle in the set).

Indy was embarasing for the whole 2 hour TV coverage....

Both insidents IMO could have been avoided...

Spankgate is funny more than embarasing. Its very very embarasing to the FIA...

Spygate, well there has always been spying it's just this was a step to far, I'd bet 1,000,000 euro that there is still some spying going on in F1...

RR and AS death was tragic, but motorsport is dangerous....

FISA - FOCA war, was a case of "My Bat - My Ball"

[donald29]

Interesting thread

I say Indy.

[VoidNT]

Jerez'97 and Malaysian'99 farce are worthy to mention in this list.

But I would say 2005 US GP was a highlight. F1 at that moment appeared as a dysfunctional entity unable to reach an agreement within itself while heading into deep trouble.

[Mika Mika]

A case for other would be the 1998 massive multi car crash at SPA.

22 Best drivers in the world..... apparantly ;)

[Owen]

U.S.G.P.

The farce that was.

[Clatter]

Has to be Indy by a huge margin.

[Hippo]

The decision after Suzuka '89 was quite emberassing too.

[Beamer]

The 2005 US GP for me. No doubt.

PS: I'm kinda puzzled why Bennetton cheating is linked with Senna's death? Don't really see the need for senna's name in there...?

[kar]

Originally posted by Beamer
The 2005 US GP for me. No doubt.

PS: I'm kinda puzzled why Bennetton cheating is linked with Senna's death? Don't really see the need for senna's name in there...?

I think they are talking about the whole year of 1994.

[rookie]

I don't find any of those particulary embarrasing? Am I in the minority on this one?

I'll just pick the 2 that the majority are picking for reference -

Austria......meh, races have been decided like that before, Senna/Berger 91, Mika/DC 98, hell in the old days the used to hang out a pit board that blatantly said e.g JONES 1 CARLOS 2 (Brazil 81)

Indy.....Yeah it sucked at the time, but when people realise I'm a F1 fan I don't find myself hoping they wont bring up Indy 05 in discussion. Every sport has a bad day, it's not a big deal in the long run....as 06 and 07 gate receipts seems to have shown.

Good Idea for a thread.

[Digitaldrug]

Originally posted by Beamer
The 2005 US GP for me. No doubt.

And Mosley was to blame for that when he disallowed a compromise so the michelin cars could race, simply because he wanted more leverage to blame michelin. He really is a disgrace on so many levels. Looking forward to 2009 when the sport starts to undo all the damage he has done notably fixing the aero/mechanical grip balance which for the last decade he was been pushing in the wrong direction.

[HDonaldCapps]

Others to ponder:

Zandvoort 1973.

Mosport 1973.

Imola 1982.

[pUs]

I voted Indy 2005, but I would have picked Suzuka 1990 if possible. Utterly disgusting.

[Josta]

Originally posted by pUs
I voted Indy 2005, but I would have picked Suzuka 1990 if possible. Utterly disgusting.

The FIA putting the pole position on the dirty side certainly was disgusting.

[Buttoneer]

If by 'embarrassing' we mean 'all those colleagues at work who don't watch F1 were laughing and asking why you even watch that shit' then the parking arrangement at Monaco 2006 does it for me.

Indy people understood, Austria people understood even if they didn't like it. The best driver in the world parking his car in what looked to everyone like an unforced error and then having a good smile about it just made people laugh about the sport.

That was my experience anyway.

Max isn't embarrassing for F1, but for him.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by Josta

The FIA putting the pole position on the dirty side certainly was disgusting.

[Risil]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps

Zandvoort 1973.

It was a horrifying display, but was that the point when F1 had to 'grow up', and take responsibility for itself in front of what had become a worldwide TV audience? There were many subsequent fatalities, but after Williamson's death, IMO F1's commercial powers knew they had to be curbed. Along with the growing influence of the GPDA, and the constructors' driving forward of their own commercial interests, this was an immensely significant event IMO. I don't know if 'embarrassment' is the right term, though, possibly more 'near-criminal negligence'?

And let's hear it for the 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. And the whole idea of hosting a Formula One race around the streets of Phoenix, Arizona.

[potmotr]

2005 Indy, hands down. The day American fans and sports writers decided for once and for all the Formula One has its head up its own arse.

[9 Degrees 12 Min]

Personally, Indy by a landslide. I remember begging my friends to make the trek to Indy from Boston - an Eastern time zone mille miglia, if you will, and used those thousand miles to proselytize how superior F1 was in the heirarchy of global motor racing.
We show up, camp in Lot #6 per normal, enjoy a thrilling qualifying sesh...and then that insane farce on Sunday.

That return trip did NOT rock and I absorbed insults without number from my comrades.

On the plus side, none of my contemporaries throw Indy '05 in my face because they are blissfully unaware of what a USGP is.

[D.M.N.]

Originally posted by Beamer
The 2005 US GP for me. No doubt.

PS: I'm kinda puzzled why Bennetton cheating is linked with Senna's death? Don't really see the need for senna's name in there...?

Yeah, I'm on about the whole of 1994.

As for Suzuka 1990, I remember Murray Walker's commentary of the start for that one, when they collided into Turn 1. Didn't he say something like "THIS IS AMAZING! THEY BOTH GO OFF AT THE FIRST CORNER!"

It's like he predicted it to happen.

Originally posted by Risil


And let's hear it for the 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. And the whole idea of hosting a Formula One race around the streets of Phoenix, Arizona.

How was it embarrasing? Was it a boring race in Phoenix or something?

Embarrasing, could be, let's say cars going at nearly 200 mph in Singapore, only to have the lighting system fail while racing. That could be an utter disaster. Let's hope the lights are tested thoroughly.

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
If by 'embarrassing' we mean 'all those colleagues at work who don't watch F1 were laughing and asking why you even watch that ****' then the parking arrangement at Monaco 2006 does it for me.

I was just about to say exactly the above.

[giacomo]

There were many embarrassing moments, Indy 05 probably the worst of them.

[Dick_Dastardly]

Definitely Indy 05, a complete and utter PR disaster as a sporting spectacle and I'm pretty sure that must of alienated legions of potential american F1 fans.

[Risil]

Originally posted by D.M.N.

How was it embarrasing? Was it a boring race in Phoenix or something?

It was a street race without an attendance. Considering the regular population of downtown Phoenix, the overall figure may well have been below zero.

[noikeee]

For me it was Austria 2002, although that was just something wrong with a single team rather than something wrong with F1. It's just that in that season, for any given race we seemingly only had 2 potential winners, and then Ferrari decided to punch every fan in the face and confirm for once and for all that we didn't have 2 potential winners, we had only 1. The last bit of uncertainty was gone. It was a moment that ruined the entire season, a season that was already very fragile.

[aditya-now]

Austria 2002.

Even Indy 2002 comes to mind, with Schumacher trying to orchestrate a dead heat, which went wrong obviously - I don´t know what Ferrari/Schuey were up to in that year.

And then a close second Indy 2005.

[tifosi]

Undoubtedly Suzaka '90. For a World Driving Champion to purposefully and with premeditation ram a Formula One car into another is not only immensly embarassing for the sport, but probbaly one of the most dispicable acts in sport history. The fact that the FIA did absolutely nothing about the incident, encouraging others to do the same in subsequent years just added to the embaraseement to the sport.

[Josta]

Originally posted by Risil


It was a street race without an attendance. Considering the regular population of downtown Phoenix, the overall figure may well have been below zero.

Apparently, it was Bernie's fault.

http://www.phoenixne...the-grand-prix/

[Zoe]

Indy 2005.

Suzuka 1990.

Spa (forgot which year, the multi-pile up in lap 0,2, looked like a load of amateurs).

Zoe

[rhm]

A good pile-up from time to time (as long as noone is injured) sells the sport in a lot of ways.

Indy 2005 was the most embarrassing and cringeworthy thing ever. I don't think anything can ever top that.

[David M. Kane]

Agree, I don't think we should ever forget the Dutch GP.

Michelin also didn't deserve what Max did to them at Indy.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

Originally posted by Piif
I voted for Indy but Austria is a close second.

Ditto.

The current Mosley scandal is bad but to intelligent people it reflects more on him than F1. Perhaps in retrospect we may soon say the same about Indianapolis '05.

It doesn't seem right to call a death an 'embarassment' - it's nowhere near a strong enough word. "Tragedy" and often "disgrace" seems more appropriate.

[D.M.N.]

Originally posted by Risil


It was a street race without an attendance. Considering the regular population of downtown Phoenix, the overall figure may well have been below zero.

Ah I see.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia...._street_circuit
The death blow for the organizers came when word arose that a local ostrich festival had drawn more people than the Grand Prix.

Seriously though, Bernie's an idiot for not promoting it. Apparently, there's a IndyCAR race there later in the year I think.

[Peter Perfect]

Indy without a doubt.

At the end of the day the public face of F1 is the race on Sunday. And when you have a race made up of 6 cars...

[HDonaldCapps]

The Spring of 1952 when it became clear that there would not enough interest on the part of the teams and, therefore, not enough formula one cars to support the CSI world championship for that season.

The Japanese f1 race of 1990 has been mentioned and certainly deserves to be a finalist.

The Phoenix formula one race losing out in attendance to an ostrich race meeting.

[four1]

Originally posted by VoidNT
Jerez'97 and Malaysian'99 farce are worthy to mention in this list.

I agree. The collusion between Williams and McLaren was disgusting. First one on track and the second one at the FIA hearing.

Another honourable mention that was (somehow ) omitted was Australia 98'. That was even more embarassing than Austria '02 due to the spin that was floated about to attempt to justify it.

[FLB]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Others to ponder:

Zandvoort 1973.

Mosport 1973.

Imola 1982.

Agreed. You could also add Spain 1975, IMHO.


From reading Tremayne's Lost Generation, I get the feeling that Zandvoort was more about the arrogance and lack of foresight from the Dutch organizers, much more than the CSI's. It's not as embarrassing as much as it's close to downright criminal.

Mosport was an over-reaction to Zandvoort. That's why the Safety Car policy was implemented, so that the organizers (race director) could slow the cars to allow the safety vehicles quicker access to a situation. The problem is that the Safety Car picked up the wrong leader, but that's not completely out of left field. The CASC/CSI offcials had no idea how to manage it because they had no experience.

Imola was embassasing much like Indy 2005, but at least there was a decent number of cars in the race.

That's what clinches Indy 2005 as the most embarrassing for me. I thought that under 12 cars, a race would be cancelled, but apparently a race with 14 retirements without a single lap completed is absolutely fine.

[Alfisti]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Indy.

I don't get this. There was no way to resolve the situation and nothing could have been done.

[FLB]

Originally posted by Alfisti


I don't get this. There was no way to resolve the situation and nothing could have been done.

Cancel the race. If they were worried about contracts, there are historical precedents that could have been given, including Belgium 1985 or Michigan 1985 (CART).

[tifosi]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
The Spring of 1952 when it became clear that there would not enough interest on the part of the teams and, therefore, not enough formula one cars to support the CSI world championship for that season.

A bit before my time so it dropped off my radar screen, but yeah that could possibly rival Suzuka '90. I still go with '90 because not only did you have the total embarasement in watching such a blatant act go completely unpunished by the governing body, but to top it all off the premeditated nature of the act makes it despicable, right up their with the Black Sox scandal.

Other than Indy, mopst of the incidents listed here are simply idiotic moves made by one team or driver, hardly the "embarassment" to the sport, that an action involving the entire governing body entails.

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Michelin also didn't deserve what Max did to them at Indy.

If I remember correctly, Michelin brought the wrong tyre there, which was in danger to not make the whole distance. Are you hinting at the fact, that Max introduced the one-race-tyre rule in 2005?

[Scudetto]

Originally posted by FLB
Cancel the race. If they were worried about contracts, there are historical precedents that could have been given, including Belgium 1985 or Michigan 1985 (CART).

Exactly. Anything short of outright cancellation was destined to be a sham. And I don't buy for a second any argument favoring a tire-barriered chicane in Turn 13...whether 6 or all 22 cars ran that day, it wasn't going to be what the fans paid to see. Better to pull up stakes, refund the money (which Michelin did anyway), and preserve a modicum of dignity.

[Risil]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
The Spring of 1952 when it became clear that there would not enough interest on the part of the teams and, therefore, not enough formula one cars to support the CSI world championship for that season.

With the World Championship only in its third year, depleted grids, a total domination by a couple of Italian marques, a mere handful of races including just two permanent facilities, and the whole thing being overshadowed by the recent War-enforced cancellation and associated economic difficulties, was there really an institution of any realistic size to be embarassed?

In the modern day, for instance, for Formula One to suffer any of the indignities heaped upon CCWS in its last few years would have been acutely uncomfortable and embarrassing, but over in America those things were almost a matter of routine, such was the series's size and status. I would argue that only once Formula One had properly established itself (even as the World Championship formula itself), could its failures and discomforts be considered major embarrassments.

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by Risil
With the World Championship only in its third year, depleted grids, a total domination by a couple of Italian marques, a mere handful of races including just two permanent facilities, and the whole thing being overshadowed by the recent War-enforced cancellation and associated economic difficulties, was there really an institution of any realistic size to be embarassed?

Since the use of the term "embarrassing" was being interpreted with a significant degree of latitude, it semed that the 1952 situation fit in quite well. This was because it was NOT the CSI who made the decision to drop formula one as the championship formula, but the organizing clubs, which exposed just how powerless the CSI truly was at that time. The CSI found itself in the position of reacting to what was already a fact -- the races were going to be run using formula two whether they were rounds in the CSI world championship or not. Interestingly, the only championship round run to formula one in 1952 and 1953 was the American round, the International Sweepsakes race at Indianapolis. Yes, the AAA had made modifications to the technical regs to allow other cars, but with very few exceptions the cars participating in those races could have taken its place on a formula one grid.

If you only focus on CSI championship rounds, there might be "a mere handful of races," but when you include the non-championship events, the numbers do improve somewhat. Keep in mind that each of these championship events took place in front of huge crowds, at a time when permanant circuits were the exception, not the rule. Different times.