149 replies to this topic

[Turnersportscars]

I would be Interested to hear from any former owners of Turner Sports Cars , Or see any pictures of Turners you may have - Especially period racing images.

Always looking for race results and History of Turner Cars

If you remember Turners , Please do get in touch!

[Ray Bell]

Paul Hamilton might well post here...

He raced a Turner with some degree of success in the early seventies. I'll try to remember to post some pics of it when I get home in a few days time.

[Pist-N-Broke]

Hi Russ, how's things back home. There's a chap down here Les Shwebel who cleans up in his 997 ford engine Mk2, Group Sa historic racing. Will send you a pic later, as I am supposed to go for a beer with him soon. His is the only Turner I have seen so far here in Oz. There is another racer around somewhere. Am the GSRA Sa registrar here in Oz so shouldn't be too hard for me to find it. Cheers Richard.

[Paul Hamilton]

The Turner I drove from 1968 to 1971 in Australia was chassis no 575 and there are already some photos and magazine articles relating to it on the Turner website at www.turnersportscars.co.uk which you are no doubt familiar with. The relevant magazine articles reproduced on that site are a piece by Ian Fraser from Sports Car World July 1963 which showns my car as it was originally imported by Alec Mildren prior to the commencement of its long racing career and a track test by Peter Wherrett published in Racing Car News in August 1971 when the car was in my ownership. The site also has some photos of the car as it is today competing in historic events in the hands of Ian Barberie.

This car was certainly the most prominent and successful Turner to hit the track in this part of the world and had built up an enviable record in the hands of John French and Wal Donnelly before I acquired it at the end of 1967. I drove it for 4 years at the pointy end of marque/production sports car races in NSW and learnt a lot from the experience before moving into single seaters. During those years most of the engineering on the car was done by Dave Mawer who was also learning the trade but has since gone on to much greater things in Mawer Engineering and also (not least) fathered Bart Mawer. This group was one of the key elements of Team Partyhouse which has been mentioned elswhere on TNF.

There are not many photos on the website of the car in its heyday during the '60s and early '70s but I am sure Ray Bell would be able to correct that.

Ian Barberie is a very appropriate custodian of such a great vehicle as he was involved in its preparation back in the days when Wal Donnelly drove it and he has a real empathy with its impressive history. He does not use it much now as he normally drives his Tiga Sports 2000 in historic events but he certainly has not lost interest in the old girl and resolutely refuses to sell it back to me. When Ian bought it some 20 years ago it was a hard used wreck very much at the end of the road and he embarked on what was as much a reconstruction as a restoration. Like any grandfather's axe, the car may not now have a lot of the original components left but it certainly still carries the line of history and, following Ian's superb rebuild, it remains the same great little car in spirit, appearance and much of the detailed componentary. Several years ago when Wal Donnelly was still with us Ian gave both Wal and I the opportunity to drive the car again at Wakefield Park and it gave us both great pleasure to get back into it. I only wish Ian would bring it out more often or allow me to do so!!

[Allan Lupton]

Presumably your interest in only in the later, series-produced BMC-based cars, but you may like these two:

Chassis 003 Turner Sports Car


1953 Chassis 006 Turner Sports Car

and of course the F2 car

and its engine

[Pist-N-Broke]

Seems a fairly exclusive group to draw from, did any of them eventually get married. ??;)

[Graham Gauld]

During his student days in England, modern-day American collector, historic Ferrari racer and custodian of the Klementaski Collection, Peter Sachs, raced a Turner-Austin in Britain during the early 1960's. I wonder where that car is now ?

GG

[Turnersportscars]

I would need a photo of Peter Sachs Turner or confirmatrion of the reg or chassis number to confirm if it survives on the register , but we have around 320 cars accounted for from the 670 produced so there is a fair chance. The Peter Sachs Turner was supplied through agents Alexander Engineering so 'Alexander' is all that shows against these cars on Jack Turners factory records. No Alexander records survive and Michael Christie is no longer with us. There is a nice article by Peter regarding his expiriences racing the car in the UK in the BARC Gazette May/June 1961.

[Turnersportscars]

Hi Richard - Good to catch up with you.
Trust all has gone well with the move to Australia.
Yes - One recently got Married and so far still is!
Your old Turner Climax is running well in HSCC Roadsports this year , John Fitzgerald is leading his class at the moment. Russ

[Pist-N-Broke]

Will let Karen know, it was officially her car. Les is very quick in his over here and would easily be a match for Dick, if not Tatty.
Cheers Richard.

[ErleMin]

I trust that you've checked with Tony Broom. Amongst other Turner racing exploits he led the 6 hour relay Team Turner a good few years ago with Robin Knight, John Moore etc. as fellow owner/racers. If not contact 750 Motor Club for contact details of these guys.

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by Pist-N-Broke
Seems a fairly exclusive group to draw from, did any of them eventually get married. ??;)

I presume this refers to my current sign-off line:
"Dating" in its current USA-speak usage anti-dates its use by the Veteran Car Club for its car authentication and classification system by some years, so far as I know.
Since the VCC has abandoned its 60-odd years of doing that for its members, perhaps you can just use the word as in radio-carbon dating

[Stephen W]

Above: Bob Dayson at Prescott 1988

This is the only Turner that has regularly hillclimbed in 'recent years'.

[RS2000]

On speed events, I recalled an entry list/results from a MIRA sprint I did in 1997 showing a yellow Turner 1700cc driven by a Mike Mohr of Midland AC. Someone also mentioned not so long ago Chris Fulke-Greville (sorry, Lord Fulke-Greville of Alcester) still had a red Xflow-engined Turner he used to sprint in the south east quite a way back.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by RS2000
On speed events, I recalled an entry list/results from a MIRA sprint I did in 1997 showing a yellow Turner 1700cc driven by a Mike Mohr of Midland AC. Someone also mentioned not so long ago Chris Fulke-Greville (sorry, Lord Fulke-Greville of Alcester) still had a red Xflow-engined Turner he used to sprint in the south east quite a way back.

The Mike Mohr car is the same one that Bob Dayson sprinted.

The Fulke-Greville Turner has been on display at Race Retro recently.

[johnwilliamdavies]

Originally posted by Stephen W



The Fulke-Greville Turner has been on display at Race Retro recently.

And is now for sale http://www.pistonhea...ales/501529.htm





-------------------

Welsh Motor Sport History

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by johnwilliamdavies


And is now for sale http://www.pistonhea...ales/501529.htm





-------------------

Welsh Motor Sport History

It was "for sale" two years ago - if the money was right!

[RS2000]

I'd heard about the 235bhp claim too.....

[Sunbeam74]

Skip Barber, of Skip Barber racing school, raced a Turner Alexander in the early 60's. I have a few photos of he and Don Sesslar having close races in F-Production events.


This was from Bridgehampton. Supposedly it was a great race.

I think there are a few shots with the Turner on this page.
http://www.racingalp..... 1961-63.html
I wonder what ever happened to Skips car?


Steve Silverstein

[2Bob]

There is a Turner in here somewhere - undergoing a rebuild, or so I am led to believe, and has been for the last few years.





I reckon it will get done 'soon', after all my ASP clubman has been undergoing a rebuild a few feet away for the last 18 years and it WILL be back on the track this August so there is hope for this Turner!

[David Beard]

A friend of mine owned this one until quite recently...made quite a good job of restoring it (chassis at least)

[green-blood]

Went looking for something in my photobucket account and saw these which prompted a return to TNF certain I'd seen Turner mentioned today, taken at a car show in Ireland a couple of years ago. Is this the same manufacturer?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by David Beard


Fella in shorts thinking: hmmmmmm the wheelbase looks a little long for the angle of those ramps, hmmm and then theres the tail as it thumps down...hmmmmmm

[eccolo]

New England Classic Car Company always seems to have several for sale. Its website currently shows 11 for sale or sold. I do not know them, but imagine they would share chassis numbers if asked.

http://www.newenglandclassics.com

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Originally posted by green-blood
Went looking for something in my photobucket account and saw these which prompted a return to TNF certain I'd seen Turner mentioned today, taken at a car show in Ireland a couple of years ago. Is this the same manufacturer?

one of I think 4 survivors of 10 built, owned by a friend Geoff Long ,used regularly on Retro Rallies , Geoff also owns the ex Brian Nelson, Tom Stafford Turner which was raced here in Ireland in the 60S , alas the Climax engine is long gone , BMC power today, but still a fun car.

[Turnersportscars]

Many Thanks Sunbeam74 - This is a wonderful picture of the Skip Barber car - Always enjoy period racing shots. Just read the th Don Sesslar car - That is one special Sunbeam! Amazing to see it in 2000 after 30 years unmolested , and since with such a superb restoration. Thank you for sharing. Russ

Originally posted by Sunbeam74
Skip Barber, of Skip Barber racing school, raced a Turner Alexander in the early 60's. I have a few photos of he and Don Sesslar having close races in F-Production events.


This was from Bridgehampton. Supposedly it was a great race.

I think there are a few shots with the Turner on this page.
http://www.racingalp..... 1961-63.html
I wonder what ever happened to Skips car?


Steve Silverstein

[Turnersportscars]

Now this really does look interesting? It is a MKII/MKIII Ford Chassis , Do you have a note of the Chassis Number? This could be one of the Australian export Turners I am looking for?? - More Info on the car would be much appriciated.
Russell Filby
Turner registrar

Originally posted by 2Bob
There is a Turner in here somewhere - undergoing a rebuild, or so I am led to believe, and has been for the last few years.





I reckon it will get done 'soon', after all my ASP clubman has been undergoing a rebuild a few feet away for the last 18 years and it WILL be back on the track this August so there is hope for this Turner!

[Turnersportscars]

Many Thanks - That would be a Turner GT Coupe , Just 10 built and 5 known to survive - A Rare car indeed!

Originally posted by EDWARD FITZGERALD


one of I think 4 survivors of 10 built, owned by a friend Geoff Long ,used regularly on Retro Rallies , Geoff also owns the ex Brian Nelson, Tom Stafford Turner which was raced here in Ireland in the 60S , alas the Climax engine is long gone , BMC power today, but still a fun car.

[Lotus23]

istr the occasional Turner entered at the SCCA Runoffs during the Road Atlanta years.

I pulled an Oct 1993 entry list at random: the F Production race had a "Turner Roadster" (#47) driven by one Larry Moulton of Sandy, Utah. He was in the midst of a gaggle of MG Midgets and Triumph Spitfires. My admittedly fuzzy memory of that race was that he ran mid-pack.

[Silkolene]

Originally posted by RS2000
I'd heard about the 235bhp claim too.....

MODSPORTS RACING TURNER SPORTS CAR VUD 701

The Historic Modsports Turner VUD 701 of Chris Fulke-Greville runs a full all steel short stroke Ford X/Flow screamer that was built by Cosworth Racing Engines.

This engine is believed to be the very ultimate that can be achieved to a normally aspired X/Flow costing five figures,after the engine was built a stainless steel manifold and exhaust system was developed at an F1 factory and the vehicle was bench tested achieving an incredible 236 BHP and 11,200 rpm using race fuel.

During testing the Turner VUD 701 ran race fuel of over 108 octane,anything less and the headers glowed red, the revs where kept down to 10,200 and we where all suprised to find the decibels where very low so there should be no trouble with the scrutineers or flyby.

Quaife have had to make some very large driveshafts to cater for the extra BHP and the 0-60 mph times came up with very regular low three seconds with an incredible 2.9 seconds on soft compound qualifiers.

Once VUD 701 is fully tested then it will be entered in a National race series in 2009 where it will be pitted against other fine machinery with the intention of promoting the Turner Sports Cars as the fast cars of Modsports,again.

The Turners weak spot at the moment is the brakes,so attention will be given to these over the next few weeks in our workshops,during testing it had no trouble pulling in the Radicals and lapping all but the two top Championship cars,but the car was taking liberties into the corners and certainly made everyone realise it needed better braking.

[Red Socks]

I notice the word Historic aoppearing in the post above-can someone explain what the context is ?

[LOLE]

Solitude Revival (Stuttgart), a week ago...
announced as a Turner GT A30 Stiletto Spyder.

[KerryStagmer]

Hey Alan,

I notice that the Lea Francis engine you show is a dual plug head, do you know if it was a gear driven cam "speedway engine"?

I really regret not buying the one that was here in the states, just glad someone like Clive got it!

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by KerryStagmer
Hey Alan,

I notice that the Lea Francis engine you show is a dual plug head, do you know if it was a gear driven cam "speedway engine"?

I really regret not buying the one that was here in the states, just glad someone like Clive got it!

The engine in post 5 is the Turner Formula 2 engine, which was Lea-Francis based, but all alloy and with the L-F/Turner twin-plug head.
The LeaF speedway engine was iron and single plug.
Both had all-gear cam drives.

Even the iron engine would have been a bit racy for a road car, as it would have been on c14:1 pistons and pretty wild camshafts for methanol-based fuel.

[Silkolene]

Originally posted by Red Socks
I notice the word Historic aoppearing in the post above-can someone explain what the context is ?

Post war era Historic race cars,in the main 1950s to approx 1972 and I am sure as the years fly by this age margin will widen.

[Red Socks]

Originally posted by Silkolene


Post war era Historic race cars,in the main 1950s to approx 1972.

But apparently no requirement for the mechanical specification to reflect the era-strange concept of History but hey....

[Silkolene]

MODSPORTS RACING TURNER SPORTS CAR VUD 701

There are quite a few regs with regards Historic status,you cannot use engines that where outside the era the car raced in such as the use of K Series or 16v Vauxhall engines.

If the car raced with a X/Flow it can use that engine or family period engine that particular car raced with within the period of its race history,depending on the class of car it is,certain mods are allowed.

With a Historic Modsports race car,these are the ultimate performance models and are allowed any internal mods to the period engine that again was used during its Historic period.

With the Historic Modsports Turner Sports Car VUD 701,this type of race car never stood still with regards modifications,to go out every year and win races,during the Mosports era of racing it went head to head with other highly modified race cars such as the Black Brick series of caterhams and many others.

Many well known drivers raced VUD 701 bringing them all many race wins at every event from 1963 to present.

To gain an advantage against the many well prepared modified race cars Historic,Classic and New the Turner VUD 701 has been prepared to such an extent that it incorporates the latest technology to its Race Engine,Drivetrain and other equipment at the same time recognising that any modifications must be in keeping with its Historic status.

At the end of the day this famous Turner Sports Car VUD 701 is built to win.

[Sharman]

There we go " to win at all costs". THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH CURRENT HISTORIC RACING

[Red Socks]

Half right Sharman; the biggest problem is to attach the tag Historic. This is not mutton dressed as lamb but lamb dressed as mutton.

[Terry Thorp]

I remember navigating in a Turner on my first proper car rally (ignoring 12 cars, etc.), back in 1969. However, I cannot think who the driver was.......I blame old age!

[Phil Rainford]

Tony Broom entered his somewhat modified Mk3 1800 TC in the 1983 750 Motor Club Sports Car Series in Class E i.e. 1500cc and over

Here he illustrates the tight line through Lodge......



.....while also attempting to entertain the sodden crowd on the exit of the Mallory Hairpin.



Kind regards

Phil Rainford

[Silkolene]

Originally posted by Sharman
There we go " to win at all costs". THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH CURRENT HISTORIC RACING

Sharman what is wrong in winning at all costs,when you start winning you will exalt in the raw thrill that you may need in life,as you would know if you where indeed a Race Car Driver.

I believe the owner of this is car also a National and Regional Champion who competes in at least 37 events a year and wins most of them in various other cars including Super Saloons and owns a 900bhp Rothmans 6R4.

[Silkolene]

Originally posted by Phil Rainford
Tony Broom entered his somewhat modified Mk3 1800 TC in the 1983 750 Motor Club Sports Car Series in Class E i.e. 1500cc and over

Here he illustrates the tight line through Lodge......



.....while also attempting to entertain the sodden crowd on the exit of the Mallory Hairpin.



Kind regards

Phil Rainford

MODSPORTS RACING TURNER SPORTS CAR VUD 701

This racing Turner is VUD 701 that Tony sold to Chris Fulke-Greville in 1986,at this race Tony ran a 1575 all steel PRE X/FLOW.

Now you can imagine what this car is like now with the new all steel 1824 Cosworth developed Ford Engine chucking out 236 bhp,it goes like stink and the owner says with a big smile on his face that he drives it like a big Go Kart.

This Racing Turner use to win most events and holds many,many lap records throuout its life,now can you imagine when Tony Broom could slay the opposition lapping Brands Indy in 49 seconds and now Chris Fulke-Greville can lap in 43.38 seconds,AWESOME,thats engine technology for you.

[Phil Rainford]

Even pre - 1986 the car looks as if it could be a handful, as it spins backwards out of the Mallory Hairpin.....



.......bizarrely only myself and Tony Broom look as though we were at Mallory Park that day!!;)

Kind regards

Phil

[Silkolene]

Originally posted by Phil Rainford
Even pre - 1986 the car looks as if it could be a handful, as it spins backwards out of the Mallory Hairpin.....



.......bizarrely only myself and Tony Broom look as though we were at Mallory Park that day!!;)

Kind regards

Phil

MODSPORTS RACING TURNER SPORTS CAR VUD 701

Hi Phil

Yes,you can say the Turner VUD 701 can be a bit of a handfull,especially in the wet all those years ago.

Tony Broom ran 10in slicks in most races and had a habit of using these in the wet causing some heart stoping moments,and as he was always on the limit it made for some entertaining driving.

When the Turner was originally purchased from Tony in 1986 by the racing driver Chris Fulke-Greville the chassis alighnment was rather out to say the least and this had to be rectified as well as correct wheel widths and assorted compounds for the race tyres,wet and dry.The latest tyres are so good compared to what Tony used back in the 80s that the Turner sticks like the proverbial.

To race this Turner on the limit you do need big *****,but what an experience to enter Paddock at 140mph or slide through Goodwood Fordwater at 150mph and enter No Name praying.

Quite a few hours have been spent at Goodwood either testing or competing in National Sprints over the years,at the moment they wont let VUD 701 race at the Revival as none of the races cater for slick tyred Modsports.

If you have any photos of this Turner post them on the forum.

[Sharman]

Pray tell me, when did it run at Goodwood and in what classes?

[Silkolene]

Originally posted by Sharman
Pray tell me, when did it run at Goodwood and in what classes?

MODSPORTS RACING TURNER SPORTS CAR VUD 701

Sprints and Testing on the Race Circuit,Oh Reverend.

And the times are so quick that cars like this Modsports Turner VUD 701 and others like the Modsports Elans,Black Brick series Caterhams are able to lap Goodwood 10 seconds a lap quicker than the AC Cobra of Tambay/Pescarolo,the Lightweight Jaguar E Types of Pirro/Fisken and Percy/Pearson.

Thats part of the reason certain people dont want to see this type of race car entered against the works machinery as these privately entered simple cars would blow the doors off the exotics.

Hopefully there is a movement to bring back these Modsports as the general public are fed up spectating convoy racing in some cases,not all though.

[Sharman]

Oh I see, not with the proper historic cars then. I remember competing against genuine Turners in the late 50s and early sixties, Tatty Turner etc but that which you describe cannot by any stretch of the imagination be described as an historic car within that context. I helped build David Eva's Alexander Turner before you went to secondary school

[Silkolene]

Originally posted by Sharman
Oh I see, not with the proper historic cars then. I remember competing against genuine Turners in the late 50s and early sixties, Tatty Turner etc but that which you describe cannot by any stretch of the imagination be described as an historic car within that context. I helped build David Eva's Alexander Turner before you went to secondary school

MODSPORTS RACING TURNER SPORTS CAR VUD 701

Cough,Splutter,Stroke of course VUD 701 is a genuine Turner you fool.

Oh Sharman what a jealous old fogey you are,behave yourself.

This is a Forum for car enthusiasts not the Jerry Springer show.

The HISTORIC MODSPORTS TURNER VUD701 has always been the fastest of all the Turners even at its earliest stages of circuit racing when it was driven by John Miles who won various National Championships in this car way back in 1963/4.

www.turnersportscars@sky.com

Other important owner drivers of VUD 701 who later went on to become professional drivers included Mark Hales,others where John Lawlor,Jeff Daryn,Tony Dunderdale,Tony Broome (twice owned because he loved it so much),Lee Barton,John Moore,Chris Fulke-Greville present owner and racing driver.

All these owner drivers of Turner VUD 701 raced this car because they could win on a regular basis knowing that VUD 701 was the fastest,although Tatty Turner is an absolute Jem of a car it was never the fastest,VUD 701 was.

Tatty has just been restored to its as new state but the argument arises by doing this beautiful restoration it remains in a limbo state where it could never win against any type of modern race machinery where as VUD 701 can,therefore the long tradition of WINNING races carries on.

It seems by your comments Sharman that you never raced and do not have that racing drivers outlook,skill and bravery to be a determined winning racing driver,you got to an age as you indicated in your message above where you may have given in and resent anyone being successful.

This famous Championship Winning Historic Modsports Turner VUD 701 Chassis No 61/490A will carry on being a successful winning HISTORIC race car,promoting the Turner marque and I hope that you secretly come to spectate and watch this awesome little British car break many lap records in Circuit Racing.

View VUD 701 at www.autoportonline.com www.autoportonlinecompetition.com classic or sprint and hillclimb sections.

So here endeth the reading Sharman so please no more spiteful messages as you are doing our flipping heads in at our race car preparation workshops.

Long live the racing Turners winning ways.

I must apologise for this rant Turnersportscars but this Sharman is behaving like a spoilt brat and needs a good talking to,I will lay odds of 100-1 that in the next few hours Sharman is so obsessed and petty minded he will make other comments,the time starts now.

[Turnersportscars]

Originally posted by eccolo
New England Classic Car Company always seems to have several for sale. Its website currently shows 11 for sale or sold. I do not know them, but imagine they would share chassis numbers if asked.

http://www.newenglandclassics.com

Interesting you should say that!!!