49 replies to this topic

[Peter Perfect]

I've just seen someone on another thread talk about the team they support in the first person plural i.e. "We're heading to the next race..." and it got me thinking about how fans relate to their teams. There are similar connections between fans and the teams they support in many other sports but it's never seemed very prevalent here.

So....how do you relate to your favourite team?

[potmotr]

I think 'we' is much more of a football thing.
And a Nigel Mansell thing. No one used it better than him.

[kar]

There's no 'I' in team but there is 'me' in team

[kismet]

By name. "We" would seem to imply that I think I've somehow contributed towards the team's success (or lack of it).

[pedrovski]

When did the "we" business start? Senna and Prost would say "I" at the PC's was it an Americanism spread by Villeneuve?

[santori]

'People come home from these games, "We won! We won!" No, they won - you watched.'

- Jerry Seinfeld

[Josta]

Originally posted by Peter Perfect
I've just seen someone on another thread talk about the team they support in the first person plural i.e. "We're heading to the next race..." and it got me thinking about how fans relate to their teams. There are similar connections between fans and the teams they support in many other sports but it's never seemed very prevalent here.

So....how do you relate to your favourite team?

Whenever I hear people say "there is no I in team" I instantly want to punch them in the face. Everyone is out for themselves in every profession. Whether they admit it is a different matter.

Even the wankers that started this in the form of "management consultants" would stab a colleague in the nuts if it meant promotion above him.

When it comes down to your career, the only letter is "I".

[giacomo]

Originally posted by Josta

Whenever I hear people say "there is no I in team" I instantly want to punch them in the face. Everyone is out for themselves in every profession. Whether they admit it is a different matter.
Even the wankers that started this in the form of "management consultants" would stab a colleague in the nuts if it meant promotion above him.
When it comes down to your career, the only letter is "I".

Exactly. And your main rival is not working for a competitor; your main rival is working in the office next door to yours. Basically you have to be better than him to be rated at all.

[kar]

Originally posted by kismet
By name. "We" would seem to imply that I think I've somehow contributed towards the team's success (or lack of it).

I think rather it is 'we' (I usually use the first person plural when talking about Ferrari) because you have a significant (although usually only emotional) stake in the team.

It's also inclusive language, it binds fellow fans together in a way to make them feel like a cohesive group.

I think it's one thing for fans to use this sort of language, but it's starting to creep into marketing as well, particularly in the US and Canada but also sadly here in the UK too.

Go to an Ice Hockey game and it's 'your Buffalo Sabres', they are not yours at all unless (as the marketing people would probably have you believe), you buy the latest 2009 alternate jersey.

In that context this application of language is not so nice. But I do like the inclusiveness it can achieve among fans of a particular team/activity.

[Ross Stonefeld]

You guys must have **** jobs.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You guys must have **** jobs.

Not really. I like my job. And even more I like to do it better than my workmates.

[Atreiu]

I use we after a great win by the team, even though all I did was send positive vibrations through the TV. When someone else wins, I use they.;)

[Josta]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You guys must have **** jobs.

On the contrary, it is the shitty jobs that don't have the same level of competitiveness. I should imagine that a toilet cleaner would have less incentive to be shown to be better than his colleague than an investment banker.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by Josta

On the contrary, it is the shitty jobs that don't have the same level of competitiveness. I should imagine that a toilet cleaner would have less incentive to be shown to be better than his colleague than an investment banker.

Yep. The better the job the tougher the competition.

In general airline pilots have to be more ambitious than city bus drivers.

[fillern]

Wether you say we or they is up to how you feel about it. Both are valid I think. When the Rolling Stones play for a huge crowd they give that little extra when the crowd loves them. All right, the potential for great music lies within the musicians and their hard work, but that little extra that makes them perform over the edge comes for acting in a social and cultural context.

So to say that a fan does not contribute to a racing teams success is an understatement and hence it's ok to say "we" as well as "they". Depends on how you feel about it I guess.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

I've noticed some people doing this recently, as if it's being imported from football where it's very common.

I always thought it was wrong when football fans did it and I feel the same way about it being used in this way. If you're not part of the team, then using "we" to refer to them is wrong.

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You guys must have **** jobs.

Whereas someone who only posts on a thread to have a go at people for no reason obviously has much better things to do with their time.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by santori
'People come home from these games, "We won! We won!" No, they won - you watched.'

- Jerry Seinfeld

Always thought Seinfeld was a nob. This sort of proves it.

Using a plural pronoun as a polite form of a singular is prevalent in Indo-European languages. And the idea that a team could not exist without supporters is not exactly a ludicrous one.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk
I've noticed some people doing this recently, as if it's being imported from football where it's very common.

I always thought it was wrong when football fans did it and I feel the same way about it being used in this way. If you're not part of the team, then using "we" to refer to them is wrong.

It's not wrong; just a bit illusory.

[Nova]

Originally posted by Peter Perfect
I've just seen someone on another thread talk about the team they support in the first person plural i.e. "We're heading to the next race..." and it got me thinking about how fans relate to their teams. There are similar connections between fans and the teams they support in many other sports but it's never seemed very prevalent here.

So....how do you relate to your favourite team?

When I was 16 I bought a Honda CB-100N and started watching Gardner vs Lawson on motoGP. I started watching F1 with Senna and Prost, Motox with Ricky Jonson and Jeff Stanton. To have an interest in sports I need to care about who is winning, and I support Honda as a brand first and foremost.

In that sense I'm a fanboy, but I do not need to think that Honda is the best in everything or that all riders not working for Honda being bad. Just for **** and giggles.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk



Whereas someone who only posts on a thread to have a go at people for no reason obviously has much better things to do with their time.

Nah I've always had pretty good jobs where I wasn't surrounded by wankers willing to jeopardise my or the unit's chances for temporary personal gain. And that includes working for a championship winning single seater team.

But it's just a different approach to life. If I was greedy and insecurely competitive, I probably would have gone into financy.

[Orin]

Originally posted by santori
'People come home from these games, "We won! We won!" No, they won - you watched.'

- Jerry Seinfeld

That's what always goes through my head.

[Arion]

I use "we", because the rival teams are "they".

[Tigershark]

Originally posted by santori
'People come home from these games, "We won! We won!" No, they won - you watched.'

- Jerry Seinfeld

Another adaptation of that thought is "We won, they lost."

I may have said 'we' once or twice during last years spy-controversy, but in general I consider it somewhat presumptuous to do so. Some people say 'we' with such conviction one might be tempted to think the team would fall apart if they lost the support of that specific person. But to each his own I suppose, it's hardly a big deal.

[metz]

After a win...WE won.
After a loss...THEY lost.

[fukkinen]

Originally posted by metz
After a win...WE won.
After a loss...THEY lost.

Or like some drivers say...

I won.
We lost.

[David M. Kane]

Tom Sneva always used "we" even when referring to himself. He was really good at it. No matter what angle they took they got a "we".

[Modern Lover]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You guys must have **** jobs.

My thought exactly!

[giacomo]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld

Nah I've always had pretty good jobs where I wasn't surrounded by wankers willing to jeopardise my or the unit's chances for temporary personal gain. And that includes working for a championship winning single seater team.

And there was was no internal competition in that mentioned championship winnng single seater team? Not even a little bit?

Very hard to believe.


BTW, nobody was talking about damaging the unit's chances for temporary personal gain before you started to do so.
Doing a better job than your workmates doesn't jeopardize the workmate, and it doesn't jeopardize the unit.
Actually it improves the standard of both by raising the bar.
And of course it improves my own position, my own reputation, the respect I earn among my working surroundings, and last but not least my financial situation.

It's an achievment-oriented society we live in. Ever heard?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Its the difference between wanting to do the best for yourself vs wanting to simply do a little better than the next guy, or make sure he doesnt do as good as you.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Its the difference between wanting to do the best for yourself vs wanting to simply do a little better than the next guy, or make sure he doesnt do as good as you.

I was talking about the first option all the time. Or did you see me talking about hampering my workmates?!?

[rghojai]

I think it was former Ganassi driver Jimmy Vasser who once said, "There's no 'I' in 'team,' but there is an 'I' in 'Chip'."

[anbeck]

Ooops, I just realized that I did everything wrong: I just read the thread title and the poll and somehow thought we we're talking about drivers referring to their team.... So I voted for "We're...".
But in fact you're talking of the fans! So I should have voted "[team name]...", because I really don't think I'm part of any team out there....

[Mauseri]

Sometimes I may say 'we won' when Kimi won.. but this 'we' is rather referring to us his fans and not Kimi or his team. (I've no favorite teams),

[hedges]

Originally posted by giacomo
I was talking about the first option all the time. Or did you see me talking about hampering my workmates?!?

It was you who refered to your workmates as 'rivals'. Although I agree you can be competitive without trying to nobble your rival, rivals do not tend to help each other unless there is more gain in it for themselves so I think a team of people working selflessly for a unit can result in a better performance for that unit than a team in a purely competitive based environment. Probably doesn't happen that much.

[fastlegs]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Its the difference between wanting to do the best for yourself vs wanting to simply do a little better than the next guy, or make sure he doesnt do as good as you.

Well said.

We use to have a saying for people who were trying to constantly impress their boss at the expense of their workmates. We called them company suckholes.

[Lada Lover]

if I didn't show up to watch there would be no game. Ergo I won.

[tifosi]

Originally posted by fukkinen

Or like some drivers say...

I won.
We lost.

fanboys can do the same thing. How many times have we seen, after a Hamilton win what a great driver he was, yet after a loss, its always what a carppy car McLaren gave him.

(yes, its the same for ALL driver's fanboys, Hamilton is an EXAMPLE ONLY!!!!!)

That's why it great being a tifoso, WE always know we provided the best car, its the drivers that f*** it all up.

[fukkinen]

Originally posted by tifosi
That's why it great being a tifoso, WE always know we provided the best car, its the drivers that f*** it all up.

Yes, I see.
Massa said exactly the opposite in Monaco.
Like 'I was giving my best and then the team f***ed it all up with that fuel load strategy'.

[JForce]

I use "we", always have. Maybe it's a Ferrari thing, a tifosi thing, I don't know.

I also refer to the 21 years "we" went without winning.

As someone mentioned above, I feel connected to the team and so I use we to illustrate this connection. Do I actively contribute to Ferrari winning races and championships? It's debatable, and obviously no is the easy answer.

Doesn't mean I don't feel like part of the team.

[Owen]

I keep slipping into saying 'we' but I shouldn't.

[Knuckles]

Originally posted by giacomo
Exactly. And your main rival is not working for a competitor; your main rival is working in the office next door to yours. Basically you have to be better than him to be rated at all.

So I do have a job that is just like F1, after all!

[Perigee]

There is a Mitchell and Webb sketch about this very phenomena.

View here:

[giacomo]

Originally posted by hedges

It was you who refered to your workmates as 'rivals'. Although I agree you can be competitive without trying to nobble your rival, rivals do not tend to help each other unless there is more gain in it for themselves so I think a team of people working selflessly for a unit can result in a better performance for that unit than a team in a purely competitive based environment. Probably doesn't happen that much.

Seems everybody here reads 'rival' as 'person I want to screw' instead of 'person I want to exceed'.

Says quite a lot about those readers.

[Ian Stewart]

Historically and customarily it's a nationalistic thing.

"We" for your country's team in football, rugby, hockey, Olympic events, etc etc,
Team Name for anything else.

Result: You can use "we" for A1GP but certainly not for F1.

Personally, I think "we" is pretentious.

[Buttoneer]

'We' is elitist bullshit. Not such a problem when the person saying 'we won' is named "I_want_to_lick_Thiessens_poo_hole" but not when their name is "F1_racing_is_cool." Like everyone should know who the **** you're talking about - duh! Or worse, like you're assuming we all share the same joy

All IMHO, of course.

[Josta]

Originally posted by Perigee
There is a Mitchell and Webb sketch about this very phenomena.

View here:

[fukkinen]

Another good 'I and we' example is Tony Kanaan's crash in the latest Indy.

Tony got into Andretti-Green and with his car set-up skills helped the team to go on and helped to groom the Andretti grandson as a driver.
In the middle of this year's race, when Tony was leading the field and get caught into some turbulence behind some backmarkers, Dixon managed to go and pass through outside.
Andretti was comming right behind and instead of giving Tony some room to recover his car, as the apex of the curve was approaching, decided to dug from inside leaving no place for Tony to go.
Tony had to slow down and even though lost the aero support of his car going up and up to the dirty side of the track and eventually loosing control and going down.
Poor Sara Fisher starting her own team collected Tony and they were both out of competition.

Tony was slating Andretti after the race saying that it was too early in teh race to make such a move.
If he had gone to the inside, he would exclude both AGR cars from the race, so he decided for the riskier one trying to save his car, but ended out of the race.

I think Tony regrets not going to Penske, when Roger offered him a seat last year.

[SirSaltire]

Originally posted by Perigee
There is a Mitchell and Webb sketch about this very phenomena.

View here:

Great sketch. As far as F1 is concerned I would never say "we" when talking about a team - why would I when I am not part of the team. As for at work, I would probably say "we". I own my own business and I don't like to see an employee trying to impress me by 'getting one over' on their workmate. What does impress me is seeing someone help a workmate improve. Too many people in this world are only out for their own personal gain.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Perigee
There is a Mitchell and Webb sketch about this very phenomena.

View here:

Note the lack of Scouse accent on the Liverpool "supporter" and reference to 200 miles distance.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

Originally posted by Perigee
There is a Mitchell and Webb sketch about this very phenomena.

View here:

Absolutely spot on.

And the fact that my dad and brother are Tottenham Hotspur fans just makes it disturbing.