My knowledge up to now was, that the first F1 (or Formula A) - race was in the year 1947.
Now - as i have seen - in Quintin Clouds notes on pre-championship race results - while reporting the GP del Valentino/Turin on 1. Sept. 1946 - he has added the notice 'First Formula 1 result' !!!
My two questions:
A) Is this right there was a F1-GP in 1946 ?
B) Over which period formula 1 was called formula A?
Who knows?
E.T.
The real beginning of F1 in 1946 ?
Started by
AUSTRIA
, Feb 11 2000 02:06
8 replies to this topic
#4
Felix Muelas
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Posted 11 February 2000 - 03:51
Austria
(sorry about the previous attempt)
As the "instigator" of Quintin Cloud's declaration, I somehow feel that it is my duty to defend that position. It is my understanding that, although Formula A rules were only introduced by the FIA in 1947, the organisers of the Grand Premio del Valentino anticipated the move and decided to run their 1946 race according to those rules. Hence we may perfectly consider that race as the first Formula One race. Further races in 1946 adopted those rules, i.e. the III Circuito di Milano at the end of september and the II GP du Salon in early october, whilst my countrymen at Barcelona, the Penya Rhin, failed to adopt them.
Well, that's my understanding...but I am very open to further discussion.
:-)
Felix Muelas
The 8W Team
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(sorry about the previous attempt)
As the "instigator" of Quintin Cloud's declaration, I somehow feel that it is my duty to defend that position. It is my understanding that, although Formula A rules were only introduced by the FIA in 1947, the organisers of the Grand Premio del Valentino anticipated the move and decided to run their 1946 race according to those rules. Hence we may perfectly consider that race as the first Formula One race. Further races in 1946 adopted those rules, i.e. the III Circuito di Milano at the end of september and the II GP du Salon in early october, whilst my countrymen at Barcelona, the Penya Rhin, failed to adopt them.
Well, that's my understanding...but I am very open to further discussion.
:-)
Felix Muelas
The 8W Team
------------------
#5
AUSTRIA
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Posted 11 February 2000 - 16:56
Hallo Felix
Thank you for responding so quick.
I've assumed something of the sort you explained now, but meeting the 'instigator' was the best, what could happen to me.
In summary we can see it as voluntarily decision of the organisers to run their races based on the rules of the 'future' Formula A though at that time there was no offical Formula A.
Do you also have the answer to my question B, Felix? ( ... or somebody else? )
Thanks again for helping me! Hope, I will be able to return.
E.T.
Thank you for responding so quick.
I've assumed something of the sort you explained now, but meeting the 'instigator' was the best, what could happen to me.
In summary we can see it as voluntarily decision of the organisers to run their races based on the rules of the 'future' Formula A though at that time there was no offical Formula A.
Do you also have the answer to my question B, Felix? ( ... or somebody else? )
Thanks again for helping me! Hope, I will be able to return.
E.T.
#6
Don Capps
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Posted 12 February 2000 - 06:41
The specifics - such as they were - of the new formula were announced in the Summer of 1946, I believe by June or July - someone else help me here, and the folks in Torino just went ahead and used the new formula as the basis for their race.
By as early as late 1947 it was being called Formula "1" and generally being referred to as such by late 1948. Only a very few still referred to it as Formula A by 1949 - and even the FIA finally caved in that year.
Remember that prior to this there was the Grand Prix formula and the voiturette formula. In 1948 the FIA added Formula B and it was universally called Formula 2 by the Spring of 1949.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
By as early as late 1947 it was being called Formula "1" and generally being referred to as such by late 1948. Only a very few still referred to it as Formula A by 1949 - and even the FIA finally caved in that year.
Remember that prior to this there was the Grand Prix formula and the voiturette formula. In 1948 the FIA added Formula B and it was universally called Formula 2 by the Spring of 1949.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
#7
AUSTRIA
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Posted 12 February 2000 - 18:32
Thanks Don,
for this detailed info to this topic. I think, there is no further question.
As it has been pointet out many times by different members of this forum: If there is no one, who has an answer, then Don appears with his really fantastic knowledge.
Thanks Don
E.T.
PS: BTW, I've an additional question, in deed: In the earliest beginnings of GP-Racing there was the ACF, giving the rules for GP-racing. Second was - for a short period - American GP and after the war the Italian GP. Many others of the organizers called their race also GP, perhaps because the terminus 'GP' not was protected. But some institution decided: This is a GP in the strikt sense (of the ACF). And these 'official GPs' - as I call them by the hand (later 'Grande Epreuve'?) - are exactly defined and known. My question: who was the final instance at that time, how was the procedere of 'getting the real GP-state' and how/when the AIACR took the commando? FIA post on its official site to be born on 1904, many authors fix the beginning of FIA with the year 1946. What is correct?
Perhaps not so easy to find detailed answers here, but lets see ..
E.T.
[This message has been edited by AUSTRIA (edited 02-12-2000).]
for this detailed info to this topic. I think, there is no further question.
As it has been pointet out many times by different members of this forum: If there is no one, who has an answer, then Don appears with his really fantastic knowledge.
Thanks Don
E.T.
PS: BTW, I've an additional question, in deed: In the earliest beginnings of GP-Racing there was the ACF, giving the rules for GP-racing. Second was - for a short period - American GP and after the war the Italian GP. Many others of the organizers called their race also GP, perhaps because the terminus 'GP' not was protected. But some institution decided: This is a GP in the strikt sense (of the ACF). And these 'official GPs' - as I call them by the hand (later 'Grande Epreuve'?) - are exactly defined and known. My question: who was the final instance at that time, how was the procedere of 'getting the real GP-state' and how/when the AIACR took the commando? FIA post on its official site to be born on 1904, many authors fix the beginning of FIA with the year 1946. What is correct?
Perhaps not so easy to find detailed answers here, but lets see ..
E.T.
[This message has been edited by AUSTRIA (edited 02-12-2000).]
#8
Ray Bell
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Posted 12 February 2000 - 19:16
So, allied to this original question, when the 500cc formula was ratified, was it known as Formula C?
And when did the American letter-line-up begin, it was certainly around when I first started getting R & T etc (1962).
The real Formula A, that was a REAL formula!
And when did the American letter-line-up begin, it was certainly around when I first started getting R & T etc (1962).
The real Formula A, that was a REAL formula!
#9
Don Capps
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Posted 14 February 2000 - 05:57
The AIACR changed its NAME to the FIA in 1946, although the change was suggested as early as 1943 or 1944.
'Grande Epreuve' was the AIACR term for an event counting towards the AIACR European Championship from 1935-1939. Since then it was been diluted to mean any championship event.
Also, keep in mind that until the very recent past, thing were rather less organized and local organizers had much, much more autonomy over Their races. Indeed, until about 1979 or so, the CSI was a toothless dog and out of touch with reality (the windshield regs of 1960 in sports-car racing being an excellent example of that).
And, yes, the 500cc formula was "Formula C"...
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 02-13-2000).]
'Grande Epreuve' was the AIACR term for an event counting towards the AIACR European Championship from 1935-1939. Since then it was been diluted to mean any championship event.
Also, keep in mind that until the very recent past, thing were rather less organized and local organizers had much, much more autonomy over Their races. Indeed, until about 1979 or so, the CSI was a toothless dog and out of touch with reality (the windshield regs of 1960 in sports-car racing being an excellent example of that).
And, yes, the 500cc formula was "Formula C"...
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 02-13-2000).]
