32 replies to this topic

[Turnersportscars]

I was recently given some old 50s Goodwood photos - Can anyone help me Identify these cars or drivers?


http://i16.ebayimg.c...6/0c/e087_1.JPG

http://i23.ebayimg.c...6/0c/258f_1.JPG

http://i23.ebayimg.c...6/0c/8823_1.JPG

http://i12.ebayimg.c...6/0d/5110_1.JPG

[Adam F]

The second and third photos are of the BRM V16
The second one has Raymond Sommer at the wheel, whilst in the third Raymond Mays is driving.
As far as I know Sommer's only association with the car was at the 1950 Silverstone International Trophy, so it is likely that both these photos are from that event.

Thanks for sharing them.

[Gary C]

First one is an unpainted toothpaste tube Connaught?

[Alan Cox]

Would the Connaught pic be of Stuart Lewis-Evans' car at the 1957 Glover Trophy?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Adam F
The second and third photos are of the BRM V16
The second one has Raymond Sommer at the wheel, whilst in the third Raymond Mays is driving.
As far as I know Sommer's only association with the car was at the 1950 Silverstone International Trophy, so it is likely that both these photos are from that event.

Thanks for sharing them.

Cross-referencing to BRM Vol 1, these seem to be from first practice on August 26th 1950. The car isn't numbered and doesn't have a badge on the nose. The same Daily Express banner that you can see behind Sommer is also visible in the lower picture on page 86 of BRM Vol 1.

(Caption for the Sommer picture: "Eh bien, so far it's a little bit better than the CTA ....")

[Turnersportscars]

Many thanks for all your help with these - Here are a few more from the set , all around 1950


http://i14.ebayimg.c...6/00/faf0_1.JPG

http://i19.ebayimg.c...6/00/968a_1.JPG

http://i18.ebayimg.c...6/0a/8682_1.JPG

http://i8.ebayimg.co...6/0b/a257_1.JPG

http://i4.ebayimg.co...6/0b/8bca_1.JPG

[url="http://i3.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/f6/04/d96c_1.JPG"]http://i3.ebayimg.co...6/04/d96c_1.JPG

[Turnersportscars]

Pics 1 & 2 of the second post I think are
Jaguar XK120 racing team cars including reg number JWK 988 and JWK 651 , and an Allard J2 racing team of 3 cars - I see on the Stirling Moss website that JWK 988 was the Works alloy Jaguar XK120 car that projected Stirling Moss to fame on the eve of his 21st birthday at the 1950 Tourist Trophy

[Doug Nye]

More of these pix are of Silverstone than Goodwood. And it's Stirling Moss, not 'Sterling'.

DCN

[driverider]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
More of these pix are of Silverstone than Goodwood. And it's Stirling Moss, not 'Sterling'.

DCN

'Sir Stirling Moss'

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by driverider


'Sir Stirling Moss'

I feel that your purported correction, whilst reflecting the overdue K for SCM - for which many of us lobbied for many a year -, whilst technically accurate, is ill-placed here. At the time to which the photos refer he was just Stirling, if ever he was "just" Stirling, his name usually being graced with adjectives appropriately reflecting both his skills and popularity. Moreover, such is their long-standing friendship, I doubt whether the person who made the initial correction ever uses the full name Stirling when he talks to SCM.
No offence intended, so if you delete your post, I will delete this one.

BTW, I am fascinated by the spelling of the middle name - Angas - shown as your favourite driver on your profile. Perhaps you might clarify its derivation.
Roger Lund.

[Dutchy]

The fourth picture of the first batch is of a sports Cooper Bristol, very similar to what became of the Hawthorn single seater (HPN 665 from memory)

From the second batch I can identify the Edwardian racing car as the 1908 "Four Inch" TT Hutton

[RAP]

Originally posted by Dutchy
The fourth picture of the first batch is of a sports Cooper Bristol, very similar to what became of the Hawthorn single seater (HPN 665 from memory)

From the second batch I can identify the Edwardian racing car as the 1908 "Four Inch" TT Hutton

I think this is Cooper Bristol UPA 261 entered by Roy Winkelman the Goodwood Easter 1957 where he appears as #99

The 3rd picture from the second batch may be Flockhart's BRM at the same meeting.

RAP
Source "A Recor of Motor Racing at Goodwood" by Robert Barker

[Vitesse2]

The second batch (except the BRM P25) are all, again, from the International Trophy meeting. There were two production car races and all the cars with visible numbers can be identified on Martin Krejci's website:

XK120 #24: Tommy Wisdom

Allard #23: Frank Curtis

Assuming they're lined up in descending number order, then in the over-exposed second picture, I'd guess the light-coloured XK120 is Leslie Johnson's #26 and the other Allard Ken Watkins' (22).

The nearest MG is Newenham's TD, the one with the covered grille presumably Harry Lester's TC, then George Phillips' and Dick Jacobs' TD MkIIs.

http://wsrp.ic.cz/intgb1950.html

Agreed on the Hutton. There's also a GP FIAT:

http://i4.ebayimg.co...6/0b/8bca_1.JPG

These would be part of the Parade of Historic Racing Cars organised by the VSCC, which Motor Sport described as "short but very sweet ... [but they] ... all got further than the BRM."

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by RAP

The 3rd picture from the second batch may be Flockhart's BRM at the same meeting.

RAP

Certainly looks likely. C/n 251, still with the 1956 body - and not enough power to pass Brabham's F2 Cooper!

So the BRM, Cooper-Bristol and Connaught (similar picture in Motor Sport May 1957) are all from the 1957 Goodwood Easter meeting.

[driverider]

Originally posted by bradbury west

I feel that your purported correction, whilst reflecting the overdue K for SCM - for which many of us lobbied for many a year -, whilst technically accurate, is ill-placed here. At the time to which the photos refer he was just Stirling, if ever he was "just" Stirling, his name usually being graced with adjectives appropriately reflecting both his skills and popularity. Moreover, such is their long-standing friendship, I doubt whether the person who made the initial correction ever uses the full name Stirling when he talks to SCM.
No offence intended, so if you delete your post, I will delete this one.

BTW, I am fascinated by the spelling of the middle name - Angas - shown as your favourite driver on your profile. Perhaps you might clarify its derivation.
Roger Lund.

No offence intended or perpetrated!

My comment was only expressed in extension of the most genuine admiration for Sir Stirling

BTW I personally also hold DCN in the highest regard

I shant be deleting the post as I hope this clears any confusion you may have

Alfred Angas Scott was a engineering pioneer of the highest order - a quick google should elicit an insight

[Turnersportscars]

Many thanks to all for your comments and Information which has been of great help and assistance. The depth of knowlege here is incredible. I also apologise for the Typo error when referencing Sir Stirling Moss. It was a genuine Mistake! and I have corrected my original post.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Its a real pleasure to follow a thread where members are so well educated , as opposed to f.ex.the Canadian GP thread on the "other" Atlasf1 where I just had a look for "fun" ,which it wasnt!!

[Kvadrat]

Originally posted by Turnersportscars
http://i23.ebayimg.c...6/0c/258f_1.JPG

http://i23.ebayimg.c...6/0c/8823_1.JPG

Both these picturese were taken in the morning before 1950 International Trophy. Here's quote from Raymond Mays' book Split Seconds:

Followed a hurried journey to Cranwell, where the B.R.M. was loaded in the aircraft, together with most of the mechanics. I left by road for Silverstone to get everything ready at that end. At 8 a.m. the aircraft flew over Silverstone to Bicester airfield, where it had to land. One of the three beautiful Austin transporters, which Mr. L. P. Lord had so kindly given to B.R.M., was waiting to bring the racing car to Silverstone. Ken drove, or should I say raced, the Austin in the wake of an escort of police cars with blaring sirens, down the crowded roads to Silverstone. At 9.40 the transporter swung through the entrance gates, and the B.R.M., amidst cheers from the spectators, was almost hurled out of the Austin. I jumped into the cockpit, was pushed off and did one warming-up lap. Back at our pits I hopped out and handed over to Sommer, who did his three necessary qualifying laps to enable the car to start in the race. The engine sounded beautiful during those three laps and although Sommer used nothing approaching full throttle he said the car felt grand.

[Kvadrat]

What about other pictures from the same collection?

http://i22.ebayimg.c...6/05/d616_1.JPG

http://i12.ebayimg.c...6/09/a9f9_1.JPG

http://i8.ebayimg.co...6/0a/2e34_1.JPG

[Kvadrat]

And these pictures are from different meeting than 1950 International Trophy:

http://i16.ebayimg.c...6/04/850d_1.JPG

http://i15.ebayimg.c...6/04/b92a_1.JPG

http://i3.ebayimg.co...6/04/d96c_1.JPG

http://i19.ebayimg.c...6/06/72ce_1.JPG

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
What about other pictures from the same collection?

http://i22.ebayimg.c...6/05/d616_1.JPG

http://i12.ebayimg.c...6/09/a9f9_1.JPG

http://i8.ebayimg.co...6/0a/2e34_1.JPG[/B]

The Alfa could be anywhere. The second one (Lotus MkIX?) - Lavant Straight? The third one - definitely Goodwood but I don't have the resources to work out what or when ...

Originally posted by Kvadrat
And these pictures are from different meeting than 1950 International Trophy:

http://i16.ebayimg.c...6/04/850d_1.JPG

http://i15.ebayimg.c...6/04/b92a_1.JPG

http://i3.ebayimg.co...6/04/d96c_1.JPG

http://i19.ebayimg.c...6/06/72ce_1.JPG

No they're not, Vladimir. Three further pictures of the MGs from the Production Car race, plus two other entries: #24 is the Jowett Jupiter of Horace Grimley and #23 the Jowett Javelin of CJ Turner.

[Kvadrat]

I was confused by the fact that #24 was also Jaguar. According http://wsrp.ic.cz/intgb1950.html there were 2 production car races, weren't they?

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Turnersportscars
Pics 1 & 2 of the second post I think are
Jaguar XK120 racing team cars including reg number JWK 988 and JWK 651 , and an Allard J2 racing team of 3 cars - I see on the Stirling Moss website that JWK 988 was the Works alloy Jaguar XK120 car that projected Stirling Moss to fame on the eve of his 21st birthday at the 1950 Tourist Trophy

I always thought it was Tommy Wisdom's privately-owned car, Moss having approached Jaguar for a drive and having been turned down as too inexperienced (see also post 13 above). However, I believe that the car was works prepared. Robert Edwards records that Moss sent Lofty England a cheque to give something to 'each of the boys' and from this it may be inferred that the three mechanics Jaguar sent to Ulster that year looked after Moss's Wisdom car as well as the works cars of Whitehead and Leslie Johnson (a third works car for Tony Rolt was crashed in practice ny Norman Haines).

[noelstokoe]

The Alfa could be anywhere. The second one (Lotus MkIX?) - Lavant Straight? The third one - definitely Goodwood but I don't have the resources to work out what or when ...

No they're not, Vladimir. Three further pictures of the MGs from the Production Car race, plus two other entries: #24 is the Jowett Jupiter of Horace Grimley and #23 the Jowett Javelin of CJ Turner.

I am the Press Officer & Librarian of the Jowett Car Club and have come accross this dormant thread after typing in details of a hero of mine "Horace Grimley". I have devoted several pages to him in a couple of my books on Jowett history. Sadly the 1950's pictures are now not available to open, but I wonder if somebody could re-post the two Jowett pictures that relate to the Jowett cars of Horace Grimley and CJ Turner?
I would be MOST grateful if that were possible....

Noel Stokoe

[CoulthardD]

They look like they were eBay items, judging by the URL's. So I doubt they can be reposted.

DC

PS Thought "Sporting Jowetts" was very good!

[h4887]

I am the Press Officer & Librarian of the Jowett Car Club and have come accross this dormant thread after typing in details of a hero of mine "Horace Grimley". I have devoted several pages to him in a couple of my books on Jowett history. Sadly the 1950's pictures are now not available to open, but I wonder if somebody could re-post the two Jowett pictures that relate to the Jowett cars of Horace Grimley and CJ Turner?
I would be MOST grateful if that were possible....

Noel Stokoe

Turnersportscars says he was given the photos, so you could try sending him a PM

[Vitesse2]

I expect Kvadrat has copies ...

[noelstokoe]

They look like they were eBay items, judging by the URL's. So I doubt they can be reposted.

DC

PS Thought "Sporting Jowetts" was very good!

Many thanks for your post David....

I am pleased that you liked "Sporting Jowetts" I really enjoyed researching it. My new one "Jowett - A Century of Memories" should be out in the next month or so....

Noel Stokoe

[bradbury west]

Presumably you are familiar with the tired red Jupiter coupe in the museum at Sanxet? I passed photos to your colleague Mr Nankivell ages ago.
Roger Lund

[noelstokoe]

Presumably you are familiar with the tired red Jupiter coupe in the museum at Sanxet? I passed photos to your colleague Mr Nankivell ages ago.
Roger Lund

Hi Roger, many thanks for your post...yes I have seen the pictures of the Jupiter coupe at Sanxet, I would like to go and visit one day and have a closer look!

Noel Stokoe

[Turnersportscars]

Noel , I think I still have these Images , I will have to hunt them out again - I will see what I can find and will come back to you
Regards Russell

[Kvadrat]

I expect Kvadrat has copies ...

Yes I do:

Edited by Kvadrat, 30 August 2010 - 08:40.

[Mal9444]

Thanks for re-posting the pictures, Vladimir. These I think are the Silverstone/ Jaguar/ Allard pictures.

Looking back to post #7 I suspect the numbers of the XK120s are JWK988 and JWK 650 (it's hard to tell from the blow-up available via Imageshack). Turnersport is right about the identity of the Moss TT winner - but curiously in this race Moss did not drive that car. It was, I think, driven by its owner Tommy Wisdom while Moss drove JWK650, race #26. Moss won.

I stand by to be corrected...

Edited by Mal9444, 30 August 2010 - 05:21.