168 replies to this topic

[D.M.N.]

I've seen lots people talk about Damon Hill leaving Williams at the end of 1996 to head to Arrows. I've seen many dates where it was suggested that Frank wanted him gone from the team. It was probably either during:

1) the end of 1993
2) the heat of the 1994 Benetton scandal
3) the end of 1995 after his poor Nurburgring/Pacific/Japanese races
4) during the 1996 season

I think from sources I have read that Hill and Williams were very unhappy long before Hill departed dating back to 1993 when Senna was there, then it took it's toll when Schumacher dominated.

According to Wikipedia's 1995 Japanese Grand Prix article (http://en.wikipedia....nese_Grand_Prix), it says, and I quote:

In the week leading up to the race, Hill was criticised by the British media after a poor performance in the Pacific Grand Prix; speculation was that he was to be dropped by Williams for the 1996 season, with either Heinz-Harald Frentzen or Gerhard Berger taking his place. Despite the rumours, Williams team boss Frank Williams gave Hill "an unequivocal vote of confidence" heading into the race.

That sounds like a deal with Frentzen was already done over a year before Frentzen took over. It sounds like in a way Hill was given an option "improve or leave". I vividly recall Murray Walker in his ITV commentary for 1997 Australian Grand Prix state that relationship was low between Hill and Williams and that the deal was done for him to leave long before the 1997 season.

I personally think he should of been treated better at Williams after the way they "dumped" him at the end of the 1996 season. He's not a world class driver, but to dump him on his ass down to Arrows was pure insult. Fact is, the car was bad, and was far worse than the superior Benetton, and Hill outqualified Coulthard on several occasions. Hill also pulled Williams back from the decks after a torrid start to the 1994.

What's your opinion on the Hill/Williams relationship in the mid-1990's?

[andysaint]

From the rumours that were going round at the time apparantly Hill turned down McLaren to go to Arrows where the money was better, I think he also turned down McLaren again for the 1998 season. To say Williams dumped him on his arse at Arrows is wholly inaccurate. At the end of the day a driver will go where he wants. There was a decent article in Autosport? Recently which tells the tale much better on what went on

As for my opinion on what went on well Hill had a fairly dreadful 1995 season where he should have walked the championship. His season was littered of mistakes and Villeneuve (a rookie) was keeping him very honest. I'm not quite sure what they saw in Frentzen but I guess Williams saw a consistent faster driver and in sport there is no room for sentiment.

[giacomo]

Williams never really wanted to sign Damon Hill as a race driver, as they always doubted him and never stopped to.

[Shockabuku]

Originally posted by andysaint
There was a decent article in Autosport? Recently which tells the tale much better on what went on

It's in this month's Motor Sport magazine, and I agree it's a good article.

[karlth]

Recently Frank Williams stated his regrets of losing/sacking Damon Hill.

What Hill excelled at was car development as could be seen by the fact that every single car he drove improved during the racing season.

[Risil]

Originally posted by giacomo
Williams never really wanted to sign Damon Hill as a race driver, as they always doubted him and never stopped to.

Wasn't he hired mostly due to the fact that Mansell suddenly decided to leave F1, at a point when most driver contracts were already signed? And with Prost in the other car, Williams weren't in desperate need of a world-beating talent.

And of course they would've signed Hakkinen but for a particularly bloody-minded bit of negotiation from Lotus.;)

[D.M.N.]

Originally posted by Shockabuku


It's in this month's Motor Sport magazine, and I agree it's a good article.

You wouldn't mind scanning it and providng a link to it, would you?

Or is there a link to that article already on the net?

[Shockabuku]

Originally posted by D.M.N.


You wouldn't mind scanning it and providng a link to it, would you?

Or is there a link to that article already on the net?

Sorry, no scanner. :

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Shockabuku


It's in this month's Motor Sport magazine, and I agree it's a good article.

It is a superb insight to a gentleman driver, great integrity and self control, one of the "old school", but then again, being the son of NGH, how could he be any different?

[rhm]

Nigel Roebuck has written about this several times. If you've got an autosport.com subscription you should be able to find his answer in the archives.

AFAIR it was about half-way through the 1995 season that FW decided to find a new driver to partner JV because DH was making little headway against MS in what was assumed to be a superior car (and without the incidents that marred the 1994 season). Of course they didn't expect him to do so well in 1996, but by midway through that season when it looked like DH would win the championship, it was too late - the contract with HHF was already signed.

[tkulla]

Originally posted by andysaint
I'm not quite sure what they saw in Frentzen but I guess Williams saw a consistent faster driver and in sport there is no room for sentiment.

I think what he saw was a driver that was miles faster than his teammates at Sauber, and one that had impressed Senna (no easy feat, I'd imagine). IMO his decision was somewhat vindicated by the 1999 Frentzen/Hill matchup at Jordan. Unfortunately for Frank, they didn't have the key to unlock his talent in the way the EJ and PS managed to (Patrick Head especially), and actually had the opposite effect.

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Actually they wanted to give Senna's cockpit to Frentzen, after the late recommanded him, but Frentzen honoured his Sauber contract out of loyality. It was not good for his career.

[NineOneSeven]

Nice thread...

[Clatter]

Originally posted by tkulla


I think what he saw was a driver that was miles faster than his teammates at Sauber, and one that had impressed Senna (no easy feat, I'd imagine). IMO his decision was somewhat vindicated by the 1999 Frentzen/Hill matchup at Jordan. Unfortunately for Frank, they didn't have the key to unlock his talent in the way the EJ and PS managed to (Patrick Head especially), and actually had the opposite effect.

HHF had a reputation of being an MS beater from their sportscar days. This obviously ignored their relative experience at that time and proved not to be the case in F1.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by andysaint
From the rumours that were going round at the time apparantly Hill turned down McLaren to go to Arrows where the money was better, I think he also turned down McLaren again for the 1998 season.

Damon was offered a good deal from Mclaren on which he would be paid handsomely on a results basis, but not a standard retainer.

For whatever reason/s Damon declined the offer and went to Arrows instead. We all know how Mclaren's fortunes were over the next few seasons. Damon could have been a 3 times WDC.

Neither Frank or Damon have ever gone into this very much at all, and I don't know if Ron Dennis has even ever gone on the record about the deal he offered. Ann Bradshaw (PR) is the best person to ask about this and has gone on record in the past as saying pretty much that she was pissed off with Damon for turning down Mclaren.

[Imperial]

I think, sadly, that Frank Williams has a history of regretting drivers he has let go of.

He did say once that Williams effectively destroyed Alex Zanardi's F1 career and he regretted that more was not done to save the situation early on. I think if Patrick Head had stepped aside several years earlier, i.e. when Zanardi went to the team, Alex would have flourished and had great success with Williams going into the BMW years. Head is cited, by Alex, as the biggest influencing factor in his demise, other than himself.

It's a shame because Alex let his head drop, and he knows it, and should have spoke up a bit more. On the flip side Patrick Head slated him for the very reason that his head had dropped (without realising why that had happened). Head should have been acting on that and pulled Alex around and out of his slump. Perhaps Patrick didn't want to acknowledge the situation was a lot to do with him. (Head rubbished Zanardi's set-up preferences and had them changed. Head insisted on putting a rookie engineer with Zanardi, despite Zanardi being some years out of touch with F1 machinery).

Raising Alex does link with the Damon thread though, because I have always thought that Williams as a team have an excellent reputation for identifying good drivers and hiring them and even getting results with them, but they also have an absolutely rock-bottom abysmal reputation for knowing how to relate to drivers on a basic level. They are littered with the corpses of so many failed team/driver relationships, the like not seen in any other team in my opinion, that a pattern is pretty clear.



Erm..by the way...should this thread be in Nostalgia?

Edit: I just wanted to add this. It still irks me so much when I think of what happened to Alex in 1999 with Williams. Only at the Monza GP did Alex get a chance to show what he could do. The reason for that was the week long test at Monza immediately prior to the GP. Only at that time was he finally able to spend enough time toying with his own set-up, and being allowed to keep it, that he finally could show what his skills really were. He duly qualified that piece of **** Williams in 4th place, beating Ralf. Alex could have been doing this sort of stuff all season had he been given an engineer worth the name and had Patrick Head actually allowed Alex to use his own set-up solutions rather than brow-beating him into using Ralf's settings. Alex is easily amongst the most cheated drivers in the history of F1.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by sterling49


It is a superb insight to a gentleman driver, great integrity and self control, one of the "old school", but then again, being the son of NGH, how could he be any different?

Very nicely put, and you could have added that on his day, though admittedly he had a few off-days as well, Damon was more than a match for anyone on the track, Schumacher included. It saddens me that he's been under-rated as regards driving talent so often by so many.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Imperial
Erm..by the way...should this thread be in Nostalgia?

You're right about that, and there will be a fair proportion on TNF to whom the name Zanardi actually means something, though I think you're rather overstating his talent and F1 potential in your well reasoned post. He was good certainly, but not all that good surely?

[D.M.N.]

Originally posted by Imperial


Damon was offered a good deal from Mclaren on which he would be paid handsomely on a results basis, but not a standard retainer.

For whatever reason/s Damon declined the offer and went to Arrows instead. We all know how Mclaren's fortunes were over the next few seasons. Damon could have been a 3 times WDC.

Neither Frank or Damon have ever gone into this very much at all, and I don't know if Ron Dennis has even ever gone on the record about the deal he offered. Ann Bradshaw (PR) is the best person to ask about this and has gone on record in the past as saying pretty much that she was pissed off with Damon for turning down Mclaren.

http://www.theautoch...dex.html?SPORTS

The saga of Damon Hill continues to occupy the British papers. As I have already mentioned he turned down an offer from McLaren, suggesting that it was an insult. Most of us felt it was an offer he should have grabbed with both hands. Two million dollars plus a further million per win sounded pretty good to me. Apparently Dennis-a hard task-master if ever there was one- felt that there was a danger of Hill doing a "cruise & collect", a bit like Nigel Mansell a while ago which ended in a farce. Damon did drive well in Hungary but one swallow does not make a Summer and by Belgium he was back to his usual uninspiring form.

*********************************************************************************

Blunder No 2 came a few days later and became public here in Belgium. It transpired that Hill also rejected what seemed like the best offer-the one from McLaren-Mercedes. It is understood that the money on the table consisted of 2 million dollars as a retainer plus 100 thousand dollars per point gained. Therefore a victory would have added 1 million dollars, a second place 600 thousand dollars and even a 6th place would have meant 100 dollars. All my fellow journalists are in total agreement with me - a huge mistake! First of all McLaren-Mercedes are the only team who have as much money as Ferrari so they can afford to test, to experiment. They have just signed up Adrian Newey from Williams who was the mastermind behind last year's car.

What does Damon do? I quote. "There were negotiations over recent weeks during which an offer to drive the McLaren-Mercedes was made. After considering the terms I was left with no alternatives but to reject it.. etc etc." Ron Dennis of McLaren was not impressed "the team sought to objectively analyse all driver options and placed commitment to winning as a principle criteria for the selection process". Which, if I understand it correctly means that the team were not interested in paying out a fortune regardless of results. Can't say I blame them. Hill did not drive with any great enthusiasm for the first half of the season and only got his act together for Silverstone and later for Hungary. I know that it's difficult to be motivated in 18th place but for 6 million dollars a year he could have tried harder.

If that was me, I would of took it. Anyone could see at that time, McLaren was gradually improving back to the top.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by D.M.N.

If that was me, I would of took it. Anyone could see at that time, McLaren was gradually improving back to the top.

That's easy to say in hindsight

[sopa]

If McLaren wanted to hire Hill for 1998, then which driver would he have replaced? And where would MH/DC have gone?

[Imperial]

Originally posted by D.M.N.


http://www.theautoch...dex.html?SPORTS



If that was me, I would of took it. Anyone could see at that time, McLaren was gradually improving back to the top.

Good find. I never heard that Damon had been offered £2Million up front. Christ, that much money would be enough for me to cruise and collect to be honest. Bollocks to trying to win races!

I never thought poorly of Damon during his Arrows season mind you. I think he tried his best for a good while in that car, until eventually he just got sick of it. And to be frank you'd be hard pressed to find any WDC put in a car like that who could continue digging deep for motivation say 7 months into a **** season.

His last season with Jordan is another matter however and I think it was a disgrace to be honest. Damon should have asked Eddie to let him quit within a few races of that season starting. To be honest I am surprised Eddie didn't fire him during the season. Perhaps neither he nor Benson & Hedges wanted the publicity of being the people who ended Damon Hill's F1 career. Suzuka was a con from Damon and anyone who travelled there in the hope of watching him race should have asked him personally for their money back.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by kayemod


You're right about that, and there will be a fair proportion on TNF to whom the name Zanardi actually means something, though I think you're rather overstating his talent and F1 potential in your well reasoned post. He was good certainly, but not all that good surely?

The truth is there seemingly are never many, if any, people who side with me on this issue but until the day I die I will remain resolute that Alex Zanardi could have and should have been WDC at least once if not more.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by Imperial


Good find. I never heard that Damon had been offered £2Million up front. Christ, that much money would be enough for me to cruise and collect to be honest. Bollocks to trying to win races!

I never thought poorly of Damon during his Arrows season mind you. I think he tried his best for a good while in that car, until eventually he just got sick of it. And to be frank you'd be hard pressed to find any WDC put in a car like that who could continue digging deep for motivation say 7 months into a **** season.

His last season with Jordan is another matter however and I think it was a disgrace to be honest. Damon should have asked Eddie to let him quit within a few races of that season starting. To be honest I am surprised Eddie didn't fire him during the season. Perhaps neither he nor Benson & Hedges wanted the publicity of being the people who ended Damon Hill's F1 career. Suzuka was a con from Damon and anyone who travelled there in the hope of watching him race should have asked him personally for their money back.

From memory I think DH did try to quit, but wasnt allowed too.

[wj_gibson]

I'm surprised to learn of a McLaren offer for the '97 season; IIRC, the only time Hill and McLaren were in serious discussions was for '98.

The hiring of Frentzen is sometimes considered a gesture to BMW, whose future commitment to F1 was only very tentative and fragile at that stage (1995/96) - i.e. a way of indicating to BMW that Williams was serious about a possible link-up for the future, and was even prepared to hire a German driver to demonstrate it.

Re: 1999 - Jordan was under considerable pressure from Benson and Hedges (its title sponsor) to ensure that Hill remained on board for the entire season, rather than quitting halfway through. Given a choice, I thin kHill would have followed up on his threat to quit immediately after Magny-Cours, but was put under huge pressure to appear at the following race at Silverstone (Hill remained the biggest draw for the British crowd even at that stage), and I suspect was badgered at that event into committing for the remainder of the year until the point where he agreed just to shut everyone up.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by sopa
If McLaren wanted to hire Hill for 1998, then which driver would he have replaced? And where would MH/DC have gone?

The easy answer would be to say DC, given the oft-cited special-relationship between Ron and Mika.

I would say though DC at that point in time that DC looked by far the better proposition of the two. I don't think Ron would however have let Mika go.

[D.M.N.]

Originally posted by Imperial
I think, sadly, that Frank Williams has a history of regretting drivers he has let go of.

He did say once that Williams effectively destroyed Alex Zanardi's F1 career and he regretted that more was not done to save the situation early on. I think if Patrick Head had stepped aside several years earlier, i.e. when Zanardi went to the team, Alex would have flourished and had great success with Williams going into the BMW years. Head is cited, by Alex, as the biggest influencing factor in his demise, other than himself.

It's a shame because Alex let his head drop, and he knows it, and should have spoke up a bit more. On the flip side Patrick Head slated him for the very reason that his head had dropped (without realising why that had happened). Head should have been acting on that and pulled Alex around and out of his slump. Perhaps Patrick didn't want to acknowledge the situation was a lot to do with him. (Head rubbished Zanardi's set-up preferences and had them changed. Head insisted on putting a rookie engineer with Zanardi, despite Zanardi being some years out of touch with F1 machinery).

Raising Alex does link with the Damon thread though, because I have always thought that Williams as a team have an excellent reputation for identifying good drivers and hiring them and even getting results with them, but they also have an absolutely rock-bottom abysmal reputation for knowing how to relate to drivers on a basic level. They are littered with the corpses of so many failed team/driver relationships, the like not seen in any other team in my opinion, that a pattern is pretty clear.



Erm..by the way...should this thread be in Nostalgia?

Edit: I just wanted to add this. It still irks me so much when I think of what happened to Alex in 1999 with Williams. Only at the Monza GP did Alex get a chance to show what he could do. The reason for that was the week long test at Monza immediately prior to the GP. Only at that time was he finally able to spend enough time toying with his own set-up, and being allowed to keep it, that he finally could show what his skills really were. He duly qualified that piece of shit Williams in 4th place, beating Ralf. Alex could have been doing this sort of stuff all season had he been given an engineer worth the name and had Patrick Head actually allowed Alex to use his own set-up solutions rather than brow-beating him into using Ralf's settings. Alex is easily amongst the most cheated drivers in the history of F1.

Good post.

Who was Alex's engineer? And yes, Alex was cheated, but it's worth remembering 1999 was his first season since 1994, and F1 changed a lot during those 5 years. Alex was originally in Williams' 1999 season line-up that's until they dropped him to the Briton who the media touted as "the next Ayrton Senna". Now, who does that remind me of?

http://atlasf1.autos...99/dec/1852.htm
http://www.guardian....,235485,00.html

[Imperial]

Originally posted by wj_gibson
I'm surprised to learn of a McLaren offer for the '97 season; IIRC, the only time Hill and McLaren were in serious discussions was for '98.

On the other hand I am scarily surprised that 1997 is the season nobody ever mentions because to me the 1998 offer was the far less serious of the two.

I really think in 1998 Mclaren were just keeping their options alive and speaking to drivers as they would do anyway. I bet when it all comes out in the wash Damon most likely won't have been the only driver Mclaren were speaking to, however tentatively, for 1998.

1997 on the other hand was a serious bid.

[D.M.N.]

Originally posted by wj_gibson
I'm surprised to learn of a McLaren offer for the '97 season; IIRC, the only time Hill and McLaren were in serious discussions was for '98.

The hiring of Frentzen is sometimes considered a gesture to BMW, whose future commitment to F1 was only very tentative and fragile at that stage (1995/96) - i.e. a way of indicating to BMW that Williams was serious about a possible link-up for the future, and was even prepared to hire a German driver to demonstrate it.

Re: 1999 - Jordan was under considerable pressure from Benson and Hedges (its title sponsor) to ensure that Hill remained on board for the entire season, rather than quitting halfway through. Given a choice, I thin kHill would have followed up on his threat to quit immediately after Magny-Cours, but was put under huge pressure to appear at the following race at Silverstone (Hill remained the biggest draw for the British crowd even at that stage), and I suspect was badgered at that event into committing for the remainder of the year until the point where he agreed just to shut everyone up.

I think he didn't have a good France race; IIRC, didn't he get a DNQ, but was only let in because qualifying was wet?

[Imperial]

Originally posted by D.M.N.


Good post.

Who was Alex's engineer? And yes, Alex was cheated, but it's worth remembering 1999 was his first season since 1994, and F1 changed a lot during those 5 years. Alex was originally in Williams' 1999 season line-up that's until they dropped him to the Briton who the media touted as "the next Ayrton Senna". Now, who does that remind me of?

I don't know his name, but it would be interesting to learn if he is still with Williams! Don't get me wrong, I don't in any way blame the engineer for the situation but if he had to be with either of the race drivers it should have been with Ralf, who had all of the more recent F1 experience.

I know we need to remember Alex had been out of the game a few seasons when he returned, but really that's entirely the reason why he shouldn't have been coupled up with an engineer who hadn't done a single season yet.

Williams really dropped him in the ****, even at the end. He's a really nice bloke and I corresponded with him by email in 1999 (which was very surprisingly easy to do - in hindsight I don't think many people were all that interested in him at that time and I doubt now that he was fighting a deluge of emails...) and even weeks after the season ended he clearly was under the impression his job wasn't under threat because he told me how much he was looking forward to BMW coming onboard in the next season and he couldn't wait to start testing with it. He became uncontactable quickly after that though (I think his email was via Williams) as obviously the team finally contacted him to begin....negotiations. I believe it was pretty much a case of Williams changed the locks on the doors and posted a big cheque to Alex. Actually IIRC Alex was on the Williams payroll at least a further two seasons after he departed.

[donald29]

Originally posted by andysaint
From the rumours that were going round at the time apparantly Hill turned down McLaren to go to Arrows where the money was better, I think he also turned down McLaren again for the 1998 season. To say Williams dumped him on his arse at Arrows is wholly inaccurate. At the end of the day a driver will go where he wants. There was a decent article in Autosport? Recently which tells the tale much better on what went on

I remember reading a feature once and Hill said "once I had won the title, my only motivation was the money"

I think neither Hill or Villeneuve are on a par with the likes of Schumacher and Hakkinen, there cars were just miles better, and Patrick Head even said that Villeneuve made "heavy weather" of winning the 97 title. And Hill was bad in 95, when he should have won (and probably 94 as well), this probably frustrated the Williams management, so they probably decided to get rid of him before 96.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by donald29


I think neither Hill or Villeneuve are on a par with the likes of Schumacher and Hakkinen...

I can't disagree with that as a general statement, but give Damon and Jacques their due, there were days when Schumacher and Hakkinen couldn't keep up with either of them. It was inconsistency that was their problem, ups and downs, or maybe mood swings or personality defects, it was hardly a lack of talent.

[D.M.N.]

Originally posted by donald29
I think neither Hill or Villeneuve are on a par with the likes of Schumacher and Hakkinen, there cars were just miles better, and Patrick Head even said that Villeneuve made "heavy weather" of winning the 97 title. And Hill was bad in 95, when he should have won (and probably 94 as well), this probably frustrated the Williams management, so they probably decided to get rid of him before 96.

Villeneuve could of wrapped up the title before the final race, but made critical mistakes, like going out on lap 2 in Canada; and a DQ in Japan

[Imperial]

Originally posted by kayemod
It was inconsistency that was their problem, ups and downs, or maybe mood swings or personality defects, it was hardly a lack of talent.

They are all possibilities but I think enough of a pattern has emerged over the years that I think driving for Williams now has to be considered a factor in a drivers change in driving quality throughout a season.

[MikeTekRacing]

Originally posted by D.M.N.


I think he didn't have a good France race; IIRC, didn't he get a DNQ, but was only let in because qualifying was wet?

yeah, but qualy was crazy, it started raining, not the same conditions for everybody on their fastest laps

[britishtrident]

The real mysteries are
Why let go of DC ?
Why didn't they hold on to Jensen ?
Why did he give Montoya a seat ?

Watching Frank Williams drivers come and go over the seasons I cannot detect any logic and even less loyalty in the hirings and firings.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by britishtrident
The real mysteries are
Why let go of DC ?
Why didn't they hold on to Jensen ?
Why did he give Montoya a seat ?

Watching Frank Williams drivers come and go over the seasons I cannot detect any logic and even less loyalty in the hirings and firings.

They didnt exactly let DC go. Mac made him an offer that he accepted, Williams had to fight to keep him for 1 more season.

Montoya had a long standing contract that he would have the race seat for 2001. Jensen got the seat for 2000 in the full knowledge that it would be for one season only. If Williams had better fortune telling skills they may well have done things differently, but as it was they honoured they promises they had made.

[jimm]

Originally posted by andysaint
From the rumours that were going round at the time apparantly Hill turned down McLaren to go to Arrows where the money was better, I think he also turned down McLaren again for the 1998 season. To say Williams dumped him on his arse at Arrows is wholly inaccurate. At the end of the day a driver will go where he wants. There was a decent article in Autosport? Recently which tells the tale much better on what went on

As for my opinion on what went on well Hill had a fairly dreadful 1995 season where he should have walked the championship. His season was littered of mistakes and Villeneuve (a rookie) was keeping him very honest. I'm not quite sure what they saw in Frentzen but I guess Williams saw a consistent faster driver and in sport there is no room for sentiment.

I don't think it was as much more money as it was the insult that a sitting WDC would have to prove himself by signing a performance claused contract. I though he should have done it because it was the best opportunity and given what he did with an Arrows, he might have come out with more money.

I think it was more about the respect that Hill thought he had earned by taking the fight to MS for 4 yrs that included a WDC, beating "legend" Prost in the same car on occation and seeing off Mansell on his return to F1.

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
Actually they wanted to give Senna's cockpit to Frentzen, after the late recommanded him, but Frentzen honoured his Sauber contract out of loyality. It was not good for his career.

Riccardo Patrese was also very close to racing for Williams in 1994 after Senna's death. As he told me:

During the weekend of the 1994 San Marino GP I spoke with Frank Williams to see if there was the possibility of testing with the team. Neither Damon or Ayrton had much experience of the passive car, and they were having some difficulties with their car at the time. I thought this might give me a chance to get back into F1 in 1995. Then Ayrton had his accident. Two weeks later Frank Williams & I spoke and we talked about me racing. In that moment I said yes to the possibility, but then I thought about it a lot after that. Before Frank offered me a drive I told him I did not want to race anymore.

[mstar]

Originally posted by karlth
Recently Frank Williams stated his regrets of losing/sacking Damon Hill.

What Hill excelled at was car development as could be seen by the fact that every single car he drove improved during the racing season.

yes i think patrick mentioned that too, he has been the best car development driver they had. head was a big fan of hill's and he was really respected by the race team. Frentzen/villneuve were not good at car development and head thinks this had some impact on the williams cars after

[Rob]

If I remember rightly, it was around the time of the 1995 Hockenheim race that the rumours started surfacing that a deal with Frentzen had been done for 1997.

[Schuperman]

Originally posted by donald29
I think neither Hill or Villeneuve are on a par with the likes of Schumacher and Hakkinen, there cars were just miles better, and Patrick Head even said that Villeneuve made "heavy weather" of winning the 97 title. And Hill was bad in 95, when he should have won (and probably 94 as well), this probably frustrated the Williams management, so they probably decided to get rid of him before 96.

Hakkinen could hardly beat DC. And almost all of DC teammates have been able to be better/ faster than him.

Except, Ron Dennis wasn't as harsh as Patrick Head on Hakkinen. In 1998 & 1999, Hakkinen took the title in the last race as did Villeneuve in 1997, while driving, as widely regarded, the best car by miles as did Williams in 1997.

I have always considered Hill was the most feared driver by MS. Followed very closely by Villeneuve.

[BuzzingHornet]

Hill wasn't a cookie cutter driver, he had strengths and weaknesses but I think on balance he was a very fine driver and, as we now know, Frank regrets being so hasty. They built him up into a World Champion and then sacked him... it was like giving away the family jewels

Yeah Frentzen murdered him in 99 but he wouldn't have beaten him in 96 or 97. I think its fair to say Hill would have got slightly more than 1 win in the 97 Williams ;) That car was a spaceship and Frentzen did absolutely nothing in it of note. JV had a very mediocre year and still won the title...

[potmotr]

The Andrew Benson piece in Motorsport is really good.
I think Frentzen suffered a lot from Villeneuve's mind games in 1997 (being lied to about tyre performance) and also from a lack of psychological support from Patrick Head and Frank Williams.
I think this shows how mentally tough Damon was. He dealt with Villeneuve, and also won more than 20 races.
Sure, he had a poor season in 1995, and had lost his fire by 1999.
But in his prime Damon Hill was world class IMO.

[Clatter]

Wasnt Neweys departure in part to do with the treatment of Hill? So the knock on effect of losing a driver had far greater ramifications.

[Mika Mika]

Anyone who doesnt think Damon Hill was world class need to watch the 1996 season review.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Mika Mika
Anyone who doesnt think Damon Hill was world class need to watch the 1996 season review.

Anyone who doesn't think Damon Hill was world class, should be disqualified from posting on this forum, simple as that, but as we all know, there are a few.....

[pasadena]

Damon Hill won the WDC, gave Arrows their equal best result in a race he lost only because of misfortune, won the first-ever race for Jordan and was in a position to win with 3 different teams within 3 years with 2 of those teams being midfielders or almost tailenders.

He was a much better driver than he is given credit for. True, he was not at his best in the wheel-to-wheel fight but he was brilliant car developer and a very quick and solid driver.

[jimm]

Originally posted by Maldwyn

Riccardo Patrese was also very close to racing for Williams in 1994 after Senna's death. As he told me:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
During the weekend of the 1994 San Marino GP I spoke with Frank Williams to see if there was the possibility of testing with the team. Neither Damon or Ayrton had much experience of the passive car, and they were having some difficulties with their car at the time. I thought this might give me a chance to get back into F1 in 1995. Then Ayrton had his accident. Two weeks later Frank Williams & I spoke and we talked about me racing. In that moment I said yes to the possibility, but then I thought about it a lot after that. Before Frank offered me a drive I told him I did not want to race anymore.
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I have a hard time believing that Senna did not have MUCH experience developing passive cars.....He only had 2 yrs of his 10 in an active car (1 with Lotus and 1 with mclaren).

[jimm]

Originally posted by Schuperman


Hakkinen could hardly beat DC. And almost all of DC teammates have been able to be better/ faster than him.

Except, Ron Dennis wasn't as harsh as Patrick Head on Hakkinen. In 1998 & 1999, Hakkinen took the title in the last race as did Villeneuve in 1997, while driving, as widely regarded, the best car by miles as did Williams in 1997.

I have always considered Hill was the most feared driver by MS. Followed very closely by Villeneuve.

Only Ferrari die hards or Shumi fanboys think the Ferrari was "miles behind" at the end of 1998. True it was in the first couple of races but Ferrari caught up and passed Mclaren latter on.