217 replies to this topic

[dde]

Originally posted by Bogs
Last year Kubica had problems with he race engineer and the TC that affected his braking - that was his problem. On top of that he had some really bad luck with reliability and some BS calls against him by the race stuards.

Nick is saying he has tire warm up issues simply becaues Kubica is comfortable in the car and himself is not having issues - and is therefore spanking Nick's bottom.

What else is Nick going to say? "Damn I suck compared to Kubica"?

After P3 in Canada, BMW was talking like Nick's qualifying issues were behind him. Also, the track was hot, so the tires would get warm, and he could do more than one qualifying lap on the same tires. So what happened? Kubica kicked Nick's ass again.

In Canada :

lap 8 heidfeld passes Barrichello. He has now a clear track until lap 12 (joins Kovalainen)

Lap / Kubica / Heidfeld
08 / 1:17.917 / 1:18.140
09 / 1:18.413 / 1:18.256
10 /1:18.222 / 1:17.953
11 / 1:18.195 / 1:18.045
12 / 1:18.192 / 1:18.525

Kubica not faster. Kubica of course is pushing hard, because Hamilton is pulling away and Raikkonen is not far behind.

Now : Heidfeld at the end of his first stint : light fuel :

Tr Heidfeld
23 1:18.237
24 1:17.619
25 1:17.430
26 1:17.746
27 1:17.781
28 1:17.510

and Kubica at the end of his second stint, when he wins the race : he needs to make the biggest gap on Heidfeld, so he can pit and stay in front : so he is pushing at the maximum, since he has enough time (around 23s) only 1 or 2 laps before he stops:

43 1:17.876
44 1:18.414
45 1:18.144
46 1:18.129
47 1:17.539
48 1:17.831

He is no faster than Heidfeld in the same conditions (same tires, light fuel). He is even slower by quite a margin OK, the track is perhaps a little bit slower at this moment, but is is not sure : nothing shows it in the datas of the entire fields. Some are faster in the second half than in the first half.


You see, Heidfeld problems in qualifiyng seem far to be solved. Since in race (at least this one), he seems just as quick as Kubica, if not quicker.

[metz]

In the race, he always was as fast at Kubica.
He even PASSES others on track, once his tyres are at temperature.
However, I'm not convinced his qualifying problems are over.
Nick has only had 2 bad races, both due to bad luck. (one a SC rule and Monaco with damaged car)
He's had 6 bad qualifying results and his driving has not been able to overcome that huge handycap.

As to Montreal, Robert was cuising during the last 15 laps. I'm sure he could have gone much faster.
Comparing second stint times should also consider that Nick was disadvanteged by having to stay on the super softs.

[otoelpiloto]

Originally posted by TheCustomer


yeah - did FA say that last week, or this time last year?

Either way, it's rare for one driver to big up another without an ulterior motive.
Let me see, why would FA want to knock LH...

reasons on a P45 please

he said it last week,after his experience against lewis whom not even considered his toughest rival (says pantano and trulli were tougher) and explained it pretty well because robert had always beaten both lewis and nico when in kart racing, as simple as that

[Bogs]

Originally posted by dde


In Canada :

lap 8 heidfeld passes Barrichello. He has now a clear track until lap 12 (joins Kovalainen)

Lap / Kubica / Heidfeld
08 / 1:17.917 / 1:18.140
09 / 1:18.413 / 1:18.256
10 /1:18.222 / 1:17.953
11 / 1:18.195 / 1:18.045
12 / 1:18.192 / 1:18.525

Kubica not faster. Kubica of course is pushing hard, because Hamilton is pulling away and Raikkonen is not far behind.

Now : Heidfeld at the end of his first stint : light fuel :

Tr Heidfeld
23 1:18.237
24 1:17.619
25 1:17.430
26 1:17.746
27 1:17.781
28 1:17.510

and Kubica at the end of his second stint, when he wins the race : he needs to make the biggest gap on Heidfeld, so he can pit and stay in front : so he is pushing at the maximum, since he has enough time (around 23s) only 1 or 2 laps before he stops:

43 1:17.876
44 1:18.414
45 1:18.144
46 1:18.129
47 1:17.539
48 1:17.831

He is no faster than Heidfeld in the same conditions (same tires, light fuel). He is even slower by quite a margin OK, the track is perhaps a little bit slower at this moment, but is is not sure : nothing shows it in the datas of the entire fields. Some are faster in the second half than in the first half.


You see, Heidfeld problems in qualifiyng seem far to be solved. Since in race (at least this one), he seems just as quick as Kubica, if not quicker.

You forgot a couple of details.

1. One of the first thing Kubica mentioned at the press conference after the race was that he had tire pressure issues during the first stint. This affected his lap times.
2. The track was getting slower, not faster as the race progressed. Were you aware of track issues?

The point is, that throughout the whole year, when both times both guys had clear air, Kubica's race laps were faster. I have been looking at this as soon as Nick started mentioning his tire temperatures during qualifying.

[mariuszek]

I'd like to clarify some posts regarding Kubica's career that were posted here.

He was never part of Red Bull's young drivers program. He was part of Renault's one since 2001, but he left it after 2002 when Renault wanted him to do another year in Formula Renault, while Kubica's camp - his manager is Daniele Morelli by the way, not Daniele Audetto - thought Robert is ready to move to F3.

In 2004 he raced in F3 Euroseries which was his second year in the series, and so did Hamilton. Lewis finished ahead of Robert in the championship and while it's true that Lewis' team Manor Motorsport was new to the series then, it was the same team that Hamilton had raced for in British Formula Renault in 2002 and 2003.

Then at the end of 2004 Robert was invited by Manor to partner Lewis at the Macau race. Despite being new to the team that had been already running Lewis for three seasons, he was able to match Hamilton's pace straight away. That's what Robert said after that season, which was apparently the hardest one in his career:

"I don't like to make excuses and blame the car for not delivering. But the Macau race showed that after changing teams I was one of the two quickest guys throughout the weekend. I rebuilt my confidence then."

"When the results were not coming during the season, the team didn't even try to find out why, they just thought it was because of me [even though Kubica out-scored his team-mate Bruno Spengler that year]."

"In the middle of the season my confidence was so low that I even started to doubt myself, but then came Macau and everything changed."

In 2005 Kubica won the World Series by Renault title and came 2nd in the Macau F3 race again, while Hamilton stayed in F3 Euroseries and won it. Three years later they're leading the Formula One championship...

[BMW_F1]

This is a nice read that I had posted earlier on another thread..

Lewis Hamilton:


The fact that his friend Nico Rosberg made the same leap last year must given Lewis confidence.
"I don't think it gives me extra confidence but it proves it is possible. Nico and I were team mates in karting and he was always one of my main competitors. He has done a fantastic job in F1. It is strange to see him and Robert Kubica doing so well. Five years ago we were all in karting and we were all struggling to some extent. Nico and I were struggling with our equipment, Kubica was struggling for money. I never thought that five years down the line we'd all be in F1."
Who was the best?
"I am not the sort of driver to answer that question," he says wisely.
Perhaps it is better to ask which of the drivers he has raced against Lewis respects the most.
"Nico and I were team mates for two years," he says. "We have a fantastic relationship. At the time we went everywhere together. We were like brothers and you have respect when you are like that. I also have a good respect for Robert (Kubica). I did not have too many wheel-to-wheel races with Nico but I have had some extremely exciting races with Kubica. He is one of the best drivers and I think one day he will be a World Champion. We all had our different techniques but Kubica seemed to be able to pull out extremely quick laps. But then he used to blow his engines all the time! Nico and I would be up the front and consistent. I think we all have the potential to race in F1 and to be World Champions."
And some of the other young guns in F1?
"Heikki Kovalainen was a couple of years ahead of us, like Tonio Liuzzi so I didn't really race them."

[fukkinen]

Originally posted by mariuszek
I'd like to clarify some posts regarding Kubica's career that were posted here.

He was never part of Red Bull's young drivers program. He was part of Renault's one since 2001, but he left it after 2002 when Renault wanted him to do another year in Formula Renault, while Kubica's camp - his manager is Daniele Morelli by the way, not Daniele Audetto - thought Robert is ready to move to F3.

Thanks for correcting me.

[BMW_F1]

According to Bernie, Kubica will beat Lewis in an equal car..


"If you saw him [Kubica] in a McLaren or a Ferrari, I think I'd put my money on him blowing away Hamilton," he said.

[bankoq]

Originally posted by metz
In the race, he always was as fast at Kubica.

It's not true. Analyze each race's times during clean air periods (use for example http://www.f1matrix...._eng/index.html) and you will see that Kubica is indeed significantly faster than Heidfeld during most of the races. Canada is very strange because the track was getting slower every second, and Kubica had some tires' pressure problems.

But Nick is really good in races and very consistent. If he hadn't qualifying problems BMW would be leading WCC with a quite good margin.

[OfficeLinebacker]

I'd go for Kubica because he's had to fight through hard times. If my team was having a bad season he'd still be driving his butt off and happy to be there.

Hamilton, I've yet to see how he reacts to heavy adversity. Not impressed thus far.

[wholagun]

on the marketing issue Hamilton has the looks; is British; and is seen by many as the Tiger Woods of F1. Yes - Kubica isn't as marketable from personal perspective, but, sponsorship goes beyond just looks and charm and boils down to results. You show me one team that wouldn't pour huge amounts of $$$$$ into a champion (assuming Robert was winning more then Kubica). If Robert starts winning more and more he will get the big sponsors b/c they want their name/logo on his car simple as that. Sure Lewis can sell as Esquire but results are key selling point and will bring in big bucks for the team.

[Torch]

I think NH's problems are flattering Kubica. Not to say he isn't good, and hasn't done a great job in the last 5 races. But ask the same question towards the end of the season after Kubica has made a few mistakes when the pressure is really on, then the commentary will be very different I suspect.

Hamilton in the first half of 2007 and the FM/KR argument in the first few races of 2008 show how opinions can be swayed very easily.

If someone has a good result in a bad car then they are seen as a god. Get a good result in a good car and it's just luck :

[metz]

Originally posted by bankoq


It's not true. Analyze each race's times during clean air periods (use for example http://www.f1matrix...._eng/index.html) and you will see that Kubica is indeed significantly faster than Heidfeld during most of the races. Canada is very strange because the track was getting slower every second, and Kubica had some tires' pressure problems.

But Nick is really good in races and very consistent. If he hadn't qualifying problems BMW would be leading WCC with a quite good margin.

You may be forgetting that Nick often runs heavier.
Fuel corrected, there is virtually no difference.
He got BMWs only fastest lap.
Also Nick usually has more traffic. His +/- passing ratio is significantly better.
His qualifying is a serious problem.

As to Canada, as one poster put it: Nick slowed down as soon as a BMW 1-2 was secured, while Robert slowed down as soon as his P1 was secured.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Originally posted by wholagun
(assuming Robert was winning more then Kubica). If Robert starts winning more and more he will get the big sponsors b/c they want their name/logo on his car simple as that.

[Rinehart]

I bet if you asked every team manager the majority would go with Hamilton, because they would be using their heads, not their hearts.

I'd go with Hamilton for the same reason, based on current evidence. (That being Hamilton beat Alonso in equal machinery last year and has about 5 wins, Kubica has only just started to shine and the risk at this stage is greater and I don't think Hamilton is a bad influence within a team, despite his questionable personality, to some).

I'm not for a minute saying my mind won't change as we see more from both of them. I actually prefer Kubica, but this would be a business decision.

[SlateGray]

Originally posted by karlth


And your point is? Hamilton has proven many times he beats drivers in equal cars which is much more relevant anyway.

It is all about winning championships WDC's and WCC's

Lewis has been a complete and total flop on that account (so far)

[wholagun]

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker

hahah typo Robert / Hamilton

what Im trying to say is that sponsors like winners, and even if Robert isn't as attractive physically, if he's winning or even a contender he'll get sponsors

[Will]

Originally posted by SlateGray


It is all about winning championships WDC's and WCC's

Lewis has been a complete and total flop on that account (so far)

Lol give the guy a chance, he has only complete one season, his rookie one, so far and how many drivers have won a WDC in their rookie season?