106 replies to this topic

[jdanton]

Sadly Funny Car driver Scott Kalitta was killed today in a crash in Englishtown, NJ. He was a two-time Top Fuel NHRA champion.

http://ap.google.com...cGVP-wD91EODUG1

Have looked at the video on ESPN, he lost the engine in an explosion, and had no parachutes. The thing that really bothered me was instead of having just a catch net and sand for run off, there a concrete wall that jutted out into the track. From the video it appeared his car went head on into the concrete. What are they thinking with that setup?

Edited to add: After watching the video again, there is a concrete wall at the end of the gravel trap/catch net area. If you go through the catch nets, you hit a wall head on--what the hell is the track thinking?

Here is the runoff--it looked different today on ESPN, but you can clearly see on the right side where concrete juts into the gravel.

http://maps.google.c...001663&t=h&z=19

[JacnGille]

[tweiss]

RIP Scott

[Slyder]

Video of the crash

WARNING: FATAL ACCIDENT
http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=DziJdGwFQjU

I can't believe this. Just tuned into the Nationwide race and they said that Scott has died. Just bloody awful, and just as Scott himself was starting to hit a winning streak, he's taken away from us.

RIP Scott.

[Psychoman]

Egad. Just a sitting duck on a rocket sled

[jdanton]

Wow, seeing that YouTube video confirmed my initial concern. Why the hell is there a wall perpendicular to the track? I realize there is a road on the other side, but similar constraints exist at the NHRA track in Columbus, Ohio, USA, and they just shut the road down when the fast cars run.

I understand, sadly, that people die in motorsports. But I really hate it when its because of poor track design. I don't know if Scott would have made it, but at least he would have had a fighting chance.

Soft mud seems like it would be the ideal run-off for drag cars.

[whitewaterMkII]

Damn
That sucks
I knew the Kalitta crew pretty well, our clutch guy came from that group.
Actually, if you blow up that Google Earth, you'll see the runoff is actually almost a half a mile from the traps, but that thing blew at the finish light and there was no scrub of speed whatsoever over that half a mile to the end. Would have been that bad anywhere. I'm pretty sure the runoff at Pomona is even less than that, but is better constructed, with tyre bales, a larger sandpit and catch netting much father from the wall.
The motor blowup was so catastrophic that I can only hope that Scott had no idea what hit him.

[jdanton]

Whitewater--

The GMaps pic shows a different config than ESPN showed tonight. That wall was across the runoff area, which I just don't get.

I understand the real estate limitations Englishtown has, but they shouldn't have concrete anywhere near the runoff. At least it happened quickly.

RIP Scott.

[whitewaterMkII]

Didn't catch that. I was just going off Google. The google doesn't show much sand at all or even tyre bales at Englishtown, while the Pomona google picks up netting, sand and tyres.
It was hard to catch from the youtube, so I guess they didn't even use all the runoff that google shows. If so pretty dumb, you're right.

[pingu666]

wow, RIP

the lack of tyres or anything at the end wall is odd, and the lack of sandtrap, did he just slide under the netting?

[JacnGille]

There is a sandtrap.

[pingu666]

oops.. so there is :s

[OfficeLinebacker]

Holy cow.

I remember going to a drap strip for the first time and marveling at how much space and thought went into the run-off area. IIRC the length of the unpaved piece (Not all gravel, some just dirt) was at least 1/4 mi itself. Then, there were some serious hay bales. Then a small grove of saplings, then a field.

The lack of run-off there and at Pomona are mind boggling to me.

[Jones Foyer]

I've never seen so much speed in a direct impact like that in any motorsport. Terrible stuff. Usually drag race accidents are glancing blows off the walls, but that car went straight off the end. The sound was sickening.
The only positives are that that kind of accident is extremely rare and the impact I'm sure meant that he was killed instantly.

Prayers for the Kalitta family.

[Jones Foyer]

Airplane perspective aerial of runoff. Short looking, but maybe not unusual? I don't watch too much drag racing but this looks like a pretty pathetic sand trap for 200 mph+.

[VoidNT]

Unbelievably bad safety standards Now they will start to care about it and modify the tracks, but I wonder why someone well-known shall die before organizers begin to pay their attention to such things.

[WildmouseX]

it's posible that he was dead long before he reached the end, even without chutes those cars can give a good effort to bring themselves to a stop with their brake, and to me it looks like he never got the brakes on. sad news indeed.

[potmotr]

How awful. I know very little about drag racing but am familiar with the name Scott Kalitta.

[potmotr]

Jeez, on this strip there are not many options if Funny Car is not able to stop other than plowing into that sand banking.

[Bob Riebe]

Beyond track design, funny cars USED to be based on production shapes; i.e. there was a great deal more room inside the cockpit.

Now they are extremely narrow with the body shape, actually forcing any fire up into the drivers face, like building a fire and sitting at the very bottom of the chimney.

Go back to prod. shapes with a minimum width so the driver is not sitting in the hottest part of any fire.

[Burai]

Originally posted by WildmouseX
it's posible that he was dead long before he reached the end, even without chutes those cars can give a good effort to bring themselves to a stop with their brake, and to me it looks like he never got the brakes on. sad news indeed.

That's my thinking. Even without the chute he should have slowed down considerably before he hit the sand were he able to apply the brake.

The tricky thing about an accident like this is to know where exactly the death occurred. You could have extended the track 100 miles, threw in all of the sand, tyres and netting that money could buy, but still find a charred corpse in the car. The impact into the wall was likely just the exclamation point.

The track is an easy scapegoat for an accident like this, but you'd be better served looking at the design of the car first.

[pingu666]

i thought they had strengthed up the cars after john forces friend/driver died...

and i thought they had a robust firewall between the driver and engine..

something could well of happened to scott before impact, to incopacitate him :

[whitewaterMkII]

Originally posted by pingu666
i thought they had strengthed up the cars after john forces friend/driver died...

They did. Medlin had a tyre blow up and it got in the cage and whacked him out, the cage work was most at the sides and back.

[taylov]

Originally posted by Burai
The track is an easy scapegoat for an accident like this, but you'd be better served looking at the design of the car first.

As someone who spent several seasons as a track worker at the "top end" of several dragstrips, I agree with your conclusion.

The initial explosion and fire may well have destroyed the brake line(s) - not the first time that this has happened. The car's terminal speed at the end of the quarter-mile appears on the track display seen in the ESPN2 feed of the accident as 300mph. The 'chutes never properly deployed and the car seemed not to have scrubbed off much speed in the shutoff area. I suspect at this speed the car would have skipped across almost any type of sand/gravel trap regardless of length and material.

One will never be able to entirely prevent such incidents - Drag racing at 330mph is a risky sport - but perhaps more attention needs to be given to protecting braking systems and 'chutes from fire and explosion damage.

Tony

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


They did. Medlin had a tyre blow up and it got in the cage and whacked him out, the cage work was most at the sides and back.

I thought the car vibrated violently and he was basically shaken to death like an infant.

[pingu666]

would a water trap work do u think? but with high enough speed you would skip over the water :

[AyePirate]

I can't remember, do any tracks use aircraft carrier style nets?

[whitewaterMkII]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller

I thought the car vibrated violently and he was basically shaken to death like an infant.

I've heard it both ways. I'll check with my brother, he's still very hooked up in the drag scene with a few teams and the major engine builders. What I've noticed since Medlin died is how the cages are now completely enclosed with sheet titanium, and a huge amount of padding inside them.
Tyre shake has always been really hard on the drivers, combined with the god awful G's off the line. IIRC, one of the reasons Bernstein got out was because he suffered from numerous detached retinas, caused by G's and tyre shake.

[whitewaterMkII]

Originally posted by AyePirate
I can't remember, do any tracks use aircraft carrier style nets?

yeah, if you look at the Pomona pic that is up you can see it pretty clearly, however I don't believe those nets are rated for 300 MPH smacks.

[AyePirate]

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII

yeah, if you look at the Pomona pic that is up you can see it pretty clearly, however I don't believe those nets are rated for 300 MPH smacks.

yeah, I'd doubt it would have stopped that juggernaut, but maybe brought down to the survivable zone.

[D.M.N.]

RIP.

[Joe Fan]

I have seen plenty of NHRA cars blow up and catch fire, that is not what killed Scott Kalitta as drivers wear fire retardant suits and helmets. From what I have read, the likely cause of death was a concrete poll he hit in the run-off area.

Anyway, sad loss. I met him at Heartland Park Topeka in 1996 or 1997. To put this loss in perspective, the Kalittas in the NHRA are sort of like the Petty or Earnhardt family in NASCAR.

RIP Scott

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Joe Fan
I have seen plenty of NHRA cars blow up and catch fire, that is not what killed Scott Kalitta as drivers wear fire retardant suits and helmets.

So you are saying he deliberately did not pop the chute or hit the brakes?

[jdanton]

Chutes were attempted to be deployed, and the brake lines may have been cut due to the explosion. He at least kept it straight.

[McGuire]

This is one of the times I HATE message boards.

With all due respect, folks are talking a lot of rubbish here. Old Bridge has a catch fence and a gravel trap, and is not all that short as tracks go. Yes, there are longer tracks but there are shorter ones too. All the yowling about the concrete wall does not make a huge amount of sense either. Race tracks have retaining walls. Mainly to protect the civilians.

As I see it, this is the time for expressing condolences to the Kalitta family. The half-baked safety critiques and self-righteous moral indignation could be saved for a more appropriate time... whatever that is.

RIP Scott Kalitta.

[whitewaterMkII]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller

I thought the car vibrated violently and he was basically shaken to death like an infant.

Talked to my bro last night.
You are correct.
He also said even if Kalitta was running the new chassis that the Force team has gone to, and not all teams have, it wouldn't have saved Scott. The drag race world is pretty shaken by two fatalities in a year now, and pretty much doesn't have any answers.
Racing sucks at times like this.

[Scotracer]

Instead of looking at ways of improving track safety...why not look at the cars themselves? They are fueled by a low-grade explosive for ****s sake...doesn't that sort of send alarm bells ringing?

These cars are unnecessarily fast and need to be either banned out-right or HEAVILY regulated. For a start, they can ban nitro-methane.

[JacnGille]

Originally posted by Scotracer
These cars are unnecessarily fast and need to be either banned out-right or HEAVILY regulated. For a start, they can ban nitro-methane.

????????????? I don't remember seein any of the drivers bein forced at gunpoint to get in and race um.

[pingu666]

the answer is to look at the cars AND the tracks

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Scotracer
Instead of looking at ways of improving track safety...why not look at the cars themselves? They are fueled by a low-grade explosive for ****s sake...doesn't that sort of send alarm bells ringing?

These cars are unnecessarily fast and need to be either banned out-right or HEAVILY regulated. For a start, they can ban nitro-methane.

You know, death and injury are not the worst things that could happen to the sport of drag racing. For example, you could be running it.

I fully understand that people like you are eventually going to have their way and all forms of motor sport, not just drag racing, are going to suffer a slow, gruesome death by strangulation. There is no way around it. In the long run it is inevitable. I am just hoping to be dead by then so I don't have to see it.

[Scotracer]

Originally posted by McGuire


You know, death and injury are not the worst things that could happen to the sport of drag racing. For example, you could be running it.

I fully understand that people like you are eventually going to have their way and all forms of motor sport, not just drag racing, are going to suffer a slow, gruesome death by strangulation. There is no way around it. In the long run it is inevitable. I am just hoping to be dead by then so I don't have to see it.

There's a difference between maintaining a great spectacle and promoting engineering development and allowing them to run the cars to the point where they are bombs on wheels. I hate what they are doing to F1 with all the "cost-cutting" but that doesn't mean I proport the idea of having cars that are causing deaths far too regularly. Sure, it's their choice to do the sport but nitro-methane for starters doesn't really help the sport that much. Sure, maybe takes a second off the 1/4 times but in real terms...what does that matter? If it saves more lives, I'm all for it's removal.

Oh and to compare drag racing to pretty much any other type of motorsport is silly, in my opinion.

[Alfisti]

To all those defending the track, is there any particular reason why the car stopped so quickly when it clearly hit something VERY solid. i.e why is there somethign solid there.

The online footage is murky at best so i can't see what happened.

[Andy35]

To be honest the concrete wall did it's job once again. There is a road after that wall but the accident was deflected upwards within the bounds of the sporting arena it seems.

You can make motorsport as safe as me sitting here typing this, but will it be the same? Men can get their adrenaline rush from beating someone else to a pulp or twisting that throttle, it's the same thing at the end of the day, and if you take that away then it becomes less attractive to do.

How many other people have died on that wall on the whole history of that race track?

Regards

Andy

[Bumper]

Originally posted by jdanton
I understand, sadly, that people die in motorsports. But I really hate it when its because of poor track design.

No kidding. A few examples come to mind Whether it was the car that killed him or poor track design, this is very sad indeed. Any improvement in track safety should be encouraged, as a thrill is one thing, but death is just a sad waste. However, drag racing is a very dangerous sport by design, and any driver entering is fully aware of the risks.

[Bob Riebe]

Return funny cars to the shape they once were.

STRONGLY based on the production car they represent. Speeds will come down for awhile, but will get back quite quickly.

[McGuire]

All judgements surrounding the crash are at this point so speculative as to be groundless. Could we please contain our precious opinions until the man is buried?

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Originally posted by McGuire
All judgements surrounding the crash are at this point so speculative as to be groundless. Could we please contain our precious opinions until the man is buried?

Yeah, people, what do you think this is, a discussion board or something?

[whitewaterMkII]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller

Yeah, people, what do you think this is, a discussion board or something?

According to McGuire, no.
This forum is his slate for commandments and pronouncements.
Toe the line, mister.
After all no one said anything about Russert at all, for days.
And he was a journalist, just like McGuire, and all his fellow journalists never conjectured one bit.
Or did they?

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller

Yeah, people, what do you think this is, a discussion board or something?

Why not wait until you actually know something?

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
So you are saying he deliberately did not pop the chute or hit the brakes?

If you look at the replay, you will see that the chute was deployed. But it does appear that he wasn't able to get the car slowed down enough. A chute is an aid to help the car get slowed down, not to bring it to a complete stop. So JDanton's comment about a brake line being cut could have been possible or the fire melted the tread on the tires.