39 replies to this topic

[Eddie Knipe]

Wondering if anyone can supply any info pertaining to the rumour that Cape Town will soon be preparing to build a state-of-the-art track suitable for F1 racing. I know that this idea was muted some time ago when Kyalami was dropped as a suitable venue in South Africa. I am South African - presently living in the UK so not up to speed with any local rumours. In saying that I really do feel that South Africa would be quite capable of getting their act into gear (!) and host a superb event in the Cape Town region. Obviously the old Killarney track to the north of Cape Town would not be up to scratch. Anyone know if Bernie Ecclestone has any plans for South Africa?

[Hieronymus]

You are probably thinking of David Gant's ill-fated dream of building a racing circuit near the Cape Town International airport. I think this dream is completely dead by now...they can't show the money that Ecclestone demanded. The SA Government also has no interest in motorsport, so they will not contribute.

There was also an idea of hosting a street race in the Sea Point / Green Point area...perhaps for a A1 Grand Prix.

[Eddie Knipe]

Thank you for info - Perhaps Sol Kerzner may wish to spend some of his cash on building a track with a hotel complex in tow? Ah well, perhaps some enterprising South African magnate may well someday show some interest and actually see the project through to the end. What a potential money-spinner in the right hands - the government, as most do, will surely jump on board if the project is a success. World coverage, sponsorship, hotel bookings, restaurants, tourist attractions, etc. - Cape Town and its inhabitants would benefit immensely.

What a backdrop to an F1 Grand Prix Table Mountain would present!
Cape Town International Airport on the doorstep, beautiful beaches, the Waterfront, etc.

Perhaps some lobbying in South Africa may rekindle the GP spirit as was the case when Kyalami was the venue ..................

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by Eddie Knipe
Thank you for info - Perhaps Sol Kerzner may wish to spend some of his cash on building a track with a hotel complex in tow? Ah well, perhaps some enterprising South African magnate may well someday show some interest and actually see the project through to the end. What a potential money-spinner in the right hands - the government, as most do, will surely jump on board if the project is a success. World coverage, sponsorship, hotel bookings, restaurants, tourist attractions, etc. - Cape Town and its inhabitants would benefit immensely.

What a backdrop to an F1 Grand Prix Table Mountain would present!
Cape Town International Airport on the doorstep, beautiful beaches, the Waterfront, etc.
..................

You forgot to mention shanty towns, rampant crime, murder, rape and carjacking.
Why does that photo remind me of the song, "From a distance"?
Of course, a few million in Zooma´s well lined pockets could stimulate government interest in a F1 race, even if 45% of the population are facing malnutrition. It worked with the submarines, so why not F1?

[Hieronymus]

Yes, at least Eddie's photo shows a "pretty picture" from a distance and hides all the other evil.

One of the dreams was a street race in the Green Point area. This is the area near the somewhat over-rated Cape Town Waterfront tourist spot. It is now under development for the 2010 Soccer World Cup.

From a historic perspective...the sports field that I indicated with the arrow was in fact the venue of the very first ever motor race in South Africa. I think very few people know this and I was somewhat worried that the site would be demolished in the present building work. Luckily it seems that it will not be the case.

[Eddie Knipe]

Yup, agreed - human nature attempting to hide the bad things in life. Fully agree with the crime aspect but one lives in perpetual hope that events like this could be seen from a positive persepective. Unfortunately, such as what is happening in Zimbabwe at the present time, one can only hope that the South African government officials will resist lining their own pockets from the success that such an event will generate. Hiding with our heads in the sand also doesn't help. But, yes, once bitten twice shy could be the retort. Should all hope be abandoned?

Thanks Hieronymus for info and pic re. first motor race in SA. Interesting as I had always thought it was at Pollsmoor - just some pics I saw at my uncle's place as a kid.

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by Eddie Knipe
Yup, agreed - human nature attempting to hide the bad things in life. Fully agree with the crime aspect but one lives in perpetual hope that events like this could be seen from a positive persepective. Unfortunately, such as what is happening in Zimbabwe at the present time, one can only hope that the South African government officials will resist lining their own pockets from the success that such an event will generate. Hiding with our heads in the sand also doesn't help. But, yes, once bitten twice shy could be the retort. Should all hope be abandoned?

Thanks Hieronymus for info and pic re. first motor race in SA. Interesting as I had always thought it was at Pollsmoor - just some pics I saw at my uncle's place as a kid.

I´m sorry Eddie. I was just getting rid of a bit of frustration and anger. Of course we mustn´t abandon hope. It´s all some people have left.
Hieronymous, thanks for that info. You learn something every day. Was the track an oval? Any details beside the location? Year etc?

[Hieronymus]

Pollsmoor was the site of the first so-called Grand Prix in the Cape Town area. The Grosvenor Grand Prix in 1937 with some good international drivers...the Auto Unions. The first ever Cape Grand Prix (that was the name given) was in 1956 at the Eersterivier Aerodrome. I do not recall one international driver in this race, though. The Killarney circuit also hosted two Cape Grands Prix in the early sixties.

The "racing circuit" I referred to in my earlier photo was actually a cycle track, but circa 1901 a race was held between cars on this track. The first real organised race meeting was on the same track in Feb. 1903.

Here is a pic of the old Pollsmoor/Grosvenor circuit. It is my own attempt to establish its exact location. Nothing is left of this circuit. It today falls within a prison site...

[Hieronymus]

Pic of the Green Point cycle oval (circa 1901)...photo was taken during the time of the Anglo-Boer War. The tents next to the track was a prisoner-of-war camp for captured Boer soldiers. Background shows British ships in Table Bay.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Hieronymus
The first ever Cape Grand Prix (that was the name given) was in 1956 at the Eersterivier Aerodrome. I do not recall one international driver in this race, though

English drivers Mike Young and Bill Holt entered A-Type Connaughts, though only the latter started, and he retired when his DeDion tube broke.
The venue was, incidentally, described as Gunner's Circle- does that tie in with the Eersterivier airfield?

[Hieronymus]

And indeed you are right again, David...I'm shooting from the hip and must check my facts FIRST!!

Gunners Circle and Eersterivier were not the same.

Attached results of that 1st Cape GP. My stats is in Excel format, so I presume this will appear as an awful mess in this post:

3 March 1956
1st Cape Grand Prix
Gunners' Circle Circuit, Cape Town

46 laps (149,5 miles)

Entrants
Race No. Driver Car Handicap

1 M. Young * Connaught type A8 scratch
2 B. Holt Connaught type A5 scratch
3 G. Lindsay Cooper Bristol 1 lap
4 J. de Villiers Cooper Bristol 1 lap
5 D. Jennings Riley Special 1 lap
6 E. Hoal Riley 2 laps
7 V. Proctor Kieft Vintcent 2 laps
8 W. Meissner LRX Ford V8 Special 3 laps
9 G. Phillips MG Special 4 laps
10 H. Peirce MG Special 4 laps
11 J. Hanning Aston Nash 4 laps
12 D. Duff Sarton Special 4 laps
14 T. Kotze Ascar Special 4 laps
15 D. Philp MG Special 4 laps
16 H. Carrington Gallini 4 laps
17 N. de Kock Millicento 5 laps
18 R. Humphreys Consul Special 5 laps
19 R. Barnard Austin Healey 5 laps
20 W. Frewen Frewen Special 6 laps
21 E. Mason * Trumph TR2 6 laps
22 R. Turner Trumph TR2 6 laps
23 C. Andrews Studebaker Special 6 laps
24 R. Lock MG Special 8 laps
25 K. Stanley MG Special 8 laps
26 J. van Niekerk Bobcat Special 8 laps
27 E. Lehmann * KRS Special 8 laps
28 P. Stander Austin Special 8 laps
29 A. Pheiffer Spyder Special 9 laps
30 D. Parker * Lightweight Special 9 laps

* did not start

Results*

1(1) Gordon Phillips MG Special
2(7) Edgar Hoal Riley
3(4) Roy Humphreys Consul Special
4(5) Harry Peirce MG Special
5(2) Roddy Turner Triumph TR2
6(8) Ray Barnard Austin Healey
7(3) Ray Lock MG Special
8(10) Bill Holt Connaught A5
(6) Walter Frewen Frewen Special
(9) Adrian Pheiffer Spyder Special

dnf Hugh Carrington Gallini lap 1
dnf Vic Proctor Kieft Vintcent lap 2
dnf K. Stanley MG Special lap 2
dnf Bob van Niekerk Bobcat lap 5
dnf Tony Kotze Ascar Special lap 5
dnf Doug Duff Sartor Special lap 11
dnf Niel de Kock Millicento lap 11
dnf Willie Meissner LRX Ford V8 Special lap 13 - flywheel
dnf Gordon Lindsay Cooper Bristol lap 15 - blown gasket
dnf John Hanning Aston Nash lap 20
dnf Don Philp MG Special lap 22 - lost rear wheel
dnf Peter Stander Austin Special lap 22
dnf Chris Andrews Studebaker Special lap 24
dnf Jimmy de Villiers Cooper Bristol lap 30

* scratch result (handicap result in brackets)

Fastest lap: Bill Holt (Connaught A5) in 2 min 2 sec (95,9 mph)

[Eddie Knipe]

Gunners Circle - is that not in what was up until the late 1970's an area near Goodwood called Epping and now referred to as Ruyterwacht? (Epping Industria - market)


Wow, I am actually quite intrigued by all this info pertaining to early racing in the Cape Town area.

Thanks for all this info .......

I'm afraid my knowledge of racing in Cape Town stretches as far as having watched John Love, Dave Charlton, the great Gilles Villeneuve, Ian Scheckter, etc at Killarney (Formula Atlantic) as well as at the same track pupils from a school I attended in Bellville who raced bikes (Ben Birk amongst others)

My uncle was a 'bof' when it came to racing tracks around the Cape Town area and I'll certainly be picking his brain when I visit Cape Town in July/August, but again, thanks for all this info.

PS at the bottom left hand corner of the Pollsmoor pic is the start of the grounds of the Reddam House school where I taught in 2001

[David McKinney]

The Eersterivier (or Eerste River) was home to the annual Van Riebeck Trophy, which seems to have been replaced in 1956 by the Cape GP at Gunner's Circle. Or was the Van Riebeck Trophy held in 1956, and has slipped through my net? (It certainly took place in both 1955 and 1957)

[Hames Junt]

I believe a deal was agreed for a South African GP in 2005 but the plans seem to have been put on hold. A circuit in Cape Town was designed by Tilke....

[Allan Lupton]

There's one just like that in an indoor go-kart track near here! Probably rather smaller scale, though.

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by David McKinney
The Eersterivier (or Eerste River) was home to the annual Van Riebeck Trophy, which seems to have been replaced in 1956 by the Cape GP at Gunner's Circle. Or was the Van Riebeck Trophy held in 1956, and has slipped through my net? (It certainly took place in both 1955 and 1957)

The first Van Riebeeck Trophy was held in 1948 at Paarden Eiland. So too the 1949 race.

Gunners' Circle hosted the 1951 and 1952 races.

Eersterivier hosted 53, 54, 55, 57, 58

Sacks Circle hosted it in 1959.

Yes, Eddie, Gunners Circle is part of the Epping Industrial area. Ruyterwacht and Thornton are the residential areas nearest to it. Somewhere on the Net there was a website with photos of old circuits. I supplied the owner of this website with several photos of all these old circuits. Perhaps one can still find it somewhere with Google's aid.

Reddam school...was that not a school for difficult costumers?

[Eddie Knipe]

Reddam House - ouch. No, no difficult customers there - high fee paying scholars though. New school opened in 2000 at the foot of Ou Kaapseweg.

Never seen the pic of the intended design near to the airport - interesting though.

[Hieronymus]

Here are my pics of Gunners Circle:

http://theracingline...rcle/index.html

[Eddie Knipe]

The power of the internet - just on this very website. Quite amazing these old tracks ............. I certainly remember the Parow hill-climb road as I used to 'live' on Tygerberg Hill - running, camping illegally, collecting tadpoles etc.

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by Eddie Knipe
The power of the internet - just on this very website. Quite amazing these old tracks ............. I certainly remember the Parow hill-climb road as I used to 'live' on Tygerberg Hill - running, camping illegally, collecting tadpoles etc.

...simply amazing!!

That was my playground as well. Lived on the slopes for 22 years of my life! Then it was still wild and you could even encounter a leopard or two with some luck and a bit of imagination.

[Eddie Knipe]

This is going to irritate others so I'll get this out of the way - what a pleasure living so close to nature in those days. Attended Boston Primary ("Pink Varkies" because of the ridiculous colour scheme of our blazers) and Settlers High. The hills - often used as our cross-country course - school runs. Remember also collecting little (non-venemous) snakes and selling them at school. Imagine being able to do that nowdays - ha! Health and safety and all that! Even had soap-box derbies on that hill - some real snazzy styles - even the odd F1 lookalike.

Sorry to others who are following this thread ................ just got a bit nostalgic there.

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by Eddie Knipe
I'm afraid my knowledge of racing in Cape Town stretches as far as having watched John Love, Dave Charlton, the great Gilles Villeneuve, Ian Scheckter, etc at Killarney (Formula Atlantic) as well as at the same track pupils from a school I attended in Bellville who raced bikes (Ben Birk amongst others)

Ben also had a brother, I recall. They were pretty fearless racers at Killarney. Owned a bike shop in Voortrekker Road in Bellville at one stage...is that correct? What school is that...Settlers, Fairmont??

[Hieronymus]

OK, Eddie you jumped me here. Settlers had pretty girls in those days. All the English speaking children from my area went to Settlers. I was at Tygerberg High..the old school and the new one on the hill. Boston I played Rugby against in primary school.

I recall soap-box races on the Plattekloof slopes...some pretty and interesting designs, I recall.

You also know that "our'' area produced a GP driver...Ernest Pieterse. Then there was also Koos...Koos Swanepoel and several very fast locals!

[zakeriath]

"Pink Varkies", colour of blazers, yeah right, really its what the Africaaners called your school because of your pink stubby legs


Settlers in Warmbaths??

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by zakeriath
"Pink Varkies", colour of blazers, yeah right, really its what the Africaaners called your school because of your pink stubby legs


Settlers in Warmbaths??

[Eddie Knipe]

Our pink stubby legs - goodness, after all these years I now find out our blazers had nothing to do with 'pink varkies' - sheeeeeet, us souties were thick in Bellville. No, those were good days.

Ben was pretty reckless but a good bloke. His brother's name escapes me. I seem to remember a .......... (can't remember his first name) Boshoff also from Bellville who raced quite successfully at Killarney. Another Settlers product. In fact I think most Settlers guys were pretty reckless on their bikes - well there goes any invite to a Settlers reunion!

Pieterse and Swanepoel - remember them well. Tough breed from the Tygerberg valleys.

[Hieronymus]

I think John Birk was Ben's brother. They had quite a reputation in the Northern Subs...almost legendary. Can the Boshoff chap perhaps be Lawrence Boshoff. There was the ace motorcyclist, Johan Boshoff, but he was a Transvaler.

Attach a map that I have here on my PC...did it a few years ago in an attempt to indicate the location of the major racing venues here in the Cape over the years.

[Eddie Knipe]

John Birk and Lawrence - 100% correct.

[Felix]

Sorry to kill the schoolboy reunion, but the following may get the thread back on track:

http://forums.autosp...threadid=100679

[Hieronymus]

D.

Thanks for that link...heavy stuff, so early in the morning.

[zakeriath]

Heavy, my head is still spinning, that thread has very little to do with another SAGP, thank god there are not many RSAS or S scouts on the forum.

Now what are those tourist numbers again

[green-blood]

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer


You forgot to mention shanty towns, rampant crime, murder, rape and carjacking.
Why does that photo remind me of the song, "From a distance"?
Of course, a few million in Zooma´s well lined pockets could stimulate government interest in a F1 race, even if 45% of the population are facing malnutrition. It worked with the submarines, so why not F1?

there was me thinking there was a GP in Sao Paulo every year and China and Malaysia.......

[Killarney]

Interesting thread this.

Picture 5 posted by Hieronymus of Gunners Circle shows a building on the left. That is where I work. My window looks out onto Gunners Circle and I drive it every day!

Even though David Gants attempts at setting up a GP circuit near Cape Town airport seemed to die, as recently as two weeks ago there were still talks of a circuit being developed there, but no mention of Gant. Frankly I can't see the economics of this. Rather upgrade Killarney for international events if required. But it certainly would never get to GP status.

Talking of Parow, Boston, etc. Well I live about 3km from there in Edgemead.

Just in defence of the country, I think there are some unneccesarily harsh comments about crime and plunder in SA. This is not Zimbabwe and we should not be confused. We have problems, but so does every other country in the western world.

[Brynmor]

I'm surprised there isn't a GP in SA, the automotive industry is huge there and constantly expanding...
Would have thought that was a small attraction at least... :

[Eddie Knipe]

" there was me thinking there was a GP in Sao Paulo every year and China and Malaysia....... "

Brilliant - good point!

Olympics in China this year?

I have so many friends in the UK that have travelled to Cape Town, done the tourist-thing - wine route, Waterfront, Robben Island, Boulders, Kalk Bay, visited Langa, Khayalitsha, eaten in 'cultural cafes', played sport in mentioned townships and have come back to the UK with glowing reports of the mother city. Some can't wait to go back. They loved the music, the people, the beaches and yes, they acknowledge that there is crime, but as they say, "Have to seen Sky news lately?" for the latest in crime in Europe ........

I think that SA can host a very good Grand Prix with the right people with the right background and the right motives putting their money where their mouths are. Run motor racing schools at the venue - golf courses - hotel/casino complex, etc.

Yes, all visionary, but that's how dreams become a reality.

Does anyone know why Mr Gant pulled out? Bernie Ecclestone putting too many obstacles in the way?

[Hieronymus]

Politics kill sport...and people!!!

On the lighter side, here is the programme cover of the first "Cape Grand Prix". Apologies for the poor quality image.

[Felix]

Does anyone know why Mr Gant pulled out? Bernie Ecclestone putting too many obstacles in the way?

Why on Earth would Eccletone do that? He makes money, mega-money, out of hosting fees. The simple fact is that given the hosting fees, infrastructure requirements and guarantees, no race is viable without govt support - and of you don't believe that, ask Silverstone and Indianapolis. Plus, from a tourism perspective, South Africa's absolutely daft closed skies policy means SAA has to give a competitor the right to land in SA - meaning flights are not only in short supply, but amongst the most expensive in the world on a passenger per km flown basis. And, forget not that every visitor would have to fly there, as a road trip from F1's traditional heartland - Europe - is a big ask.

Singapore is in the process of discovering that people don't necessarily travel to races if they are too expensive on an all-in basis - the hotels are less than 50% full with three months to go, and air tickets are still available on the internet. Ask Malaysia what it has cost to fund its grand prix and have stands filled to less than 50% of capacity; for that matter, ask China...

These are all govt funded circuits operating at a huge loss and only still in business cos politicians never admit to mistakes - and thus keep signing on with Bernie...

Fortunately, but for reasons completely unrelated to far-sighted governance, the SA govt has not been caught by Bernard Charles Ecclestone and is unlikely to be, either, for it views F1 as a sport dabbled in by 19 whites and a half black guy who was born thousands of miles from Africa and has no African roots to speak of.

As for the 'harsh comments', allow me to tell a story: on a trip to Cape Town (funnily enough on the day I agreed to meet with David Gant, whom I continuously advised to not commit to a grand prix on account of the numbers not making sense) I dropped my wife at one end of Cape Town city in trhe morning and suggested she amble across to the Waterfront whilst I was in meetings, then have lunch with Gant and I. About 30 minutes after I dropped her my mobile rang - could I rush across and collect her, she pleaded. She felt threatened by the people all around and was absolutely petrified. I immediately did as bidden.

She has been to most grand prix venues with me, and has visited South Africa with me every year for almost ten years now, but had never been away from me and alone in SA, so never before reacted like that. In the course of her own business she travels the world regularly, and for nine years, in a previous life, represented Germany at World Cup level in karate.

A colleague who works for an F1 team spent two weeks in Cape Town at Xmas with his family - they were robbed, assaulted and tied up in the apartment they rented in Rondebosch. When Jenson Button was in Cape Town three years ago, every BAT/BAR employee who accompanied him had a personal body guard.

I travel to all GPs and feel safe across the world regardless of whether in Sao Paulo or Shanghai, yet crap myself in the country of my birth, so let us not downplay the situation.

Incidentally, Hieronymus knows my identity

[Hieronymus]

Way off topic now, but I always thought the Boland (Cape Town rural) region was a splendid location for a Targa Florio-like race. Some really challenging mountain passes out here and interesting rural roads. Time to lock away the children, chickens and animals...and to let the mothers-in-law outside.

OK, it was just a retro-dream...

[Killarney]

I've lived in South Africa all my life and the only time I crapped myself was during the riots of the 70's and 80's. However go to the wrong place and you are looking for trouble. Same in London I guess?

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Pollsmoor was the site of the first so-called Grand Prix in the Cape Town area. The Grosvenor Grand Prix in 1937 with some good international drivers...the Auto Unions.

Going back in history again. I have here a report from THE CAPE ARGUS (21 Jan. 1936). At the time a 'GRAND PRIX" circuit was planned for Cape Town following the successful first GP race in East London. That was prior to Pollsmoor.

The area then considered for a circuit was on the Atlantic coast near Camps Bay. They also refer to it as the Round House-Camps Bay Circuit. Pat Fairfield strongly advocated the circuit. They mention that the circuit would be 6 miles long and they considered a 25 lap race.