12 replies to this topic

[Henk A. Hazelaar]

I just bought this photograph of a MARTINI Formula 850???
(photo by Mirto Facco - Milano - Italia)

Can anyone help me to identify this photograph?





Thanks for your consideration.


Henk A. Hazelaar
The Netherlands

Specialising in Formila Ford History

[Bloggsworth]

Would that be Renato "Tico" Martini, somehow I associate him with Jersey.

[T54]

I don't know about a "Formula 859" but this looks to me like the original Martini MK1 "Formule France" with the "eagle" beak, built in Magny Cours by Tico in 1966 after he got the pile of cash from Frankenheimer for his batch of crapped out Lotus 18's and the single "21" used for the Volant Shell...
Those old cars became part of the flock used in Grand Prix, the Movie, of I recall correctly.
The 13" wheels look too big to me for a F850 car that generally used 12 inchers.
Could be wrong of course.

[Alexander M]

Dear Henk, thank you for this very interesting picture.

There is a very interesting book written by Alessandro Sannia called 'Fiat 850 Fuoriserie' about Fiat 850 derivatives, including a big number of Formula 850 cars. Sadly, there is no Martini F850 in it, but judging by the pictures of other cars from that book I can tell you that this picture was most probably taken at 1967 Saloncino dell'Auto da Competizione di Torino, and the car in a background is a Sozzani F850 built by Fidenzio Sozzani.

The wheels and suspensions of a Martini look quite similar to the ones used on Formula 850 cars (and not similar to Tico Martini's cars' suspensions in my opinion). Can't be sure for the engine though from this point of view.

Also, even though the nose is quite similar to Tico Martini's cars, the emblem looks different to me - the French Martini did not use a round shaped emblem as far as I know. Martini as such is an Italian surname, so for me it is not impossible that some guy named Martini could have built an F850 car on his own. On the other side, I'm not a specialist in French formulae, so maybe this is some early car by Tico Martini which I have never seen before (although I'm nearly sure it is a Formula 850 inded).


All the best,
Alexander

Edited by Alexander M, 26 June 2010 - 11:43.

[arttidesco]

The suspension looks correct for the Type MW1 (Martini Winfield) that could have been built for the Winfield School or Formula France when compared with this picture of the MW1B Formula 3 car but looks nothing like this car also credited as being an MW1.

[Alexander M]

It does (but only the front one!), I was referring to this picture also identified as MW1, though: http://www.classic-d...age/photo 8.jpg.

Edited by Alexander M, 26 June 2010 - 13:33.

[Nanni Dietrich]

....

this picture was most probably taken at 1967 Saloncino dell'Auto da Competizione di Torino, and the car in a background is a Sozzani F850 built by Fidenzio Sozzani.

...

Martini as such is an Italian surname, so for me it is not impossible that some guy named Martini could have built an F850 car on his own.

...

All the best,
Alexander

correct, Alexander M.

I have at home an issue of magazine Auto Italiana (of October of November 1967, don't remember) which published a series of pictures of craftmade Italian Formula 850 single-seaters at the Saloncino dell'Auto da Competizione at Turin.

As Alexander M. said, at the time there were a number of occasional "car builders" in Italy, such as Sozzani, Zambarbieri, Biraghi, Del Giovane, Paparusso, to name but a few. And Martini was one of them.

Martini is a very common surname in Italy. I'm pretty sure he was NOT Tico Martini.

[arttidesco]

So if the original picture in this post is a self built special Martini, could this still be a Martini MW1 or is it something else ?

[Alexander M]

I wish I knew that, but I don't.

In the meantime, I have received a reply from Mr.Sannia regarding the Martini F850:

I have this picture, but I decided not to publish it in my book because I didn’t have enough reliable info.
The picture should actually have been taken at the January 1968 “Saloncino”. The feature on Auto Italiana also tells that the 1968 version has new front suspensions respect to the previous one (hence, also a 1967 version existed) and that the firm is based in Ospiate di Bollate (near Milan).

He has also mentioned that AutoSprint magazine has identified this car as Maco (looks like the badge in first post could read 'Maco' indeed!) and he supposed it is possible that Martini was the name of the builder, while the cars were called Maco. I would say that it makes sense.

Regards,
Alexander

Edited by Alexander M, 30 June 2010 - 16:34.

[Nanni Dietrich]

Yes, a MACO!


I remember one Giovanni Avati who raced in the Italian Formula 850 Championship in the early 1970s, driving a MACO (he also won a couple of races).

I'm sure, because years later, when another MACO appeared in the German Formula 3 Championship, I thought it could be the same Italian MACO. Not true, it was the car of builder-driver Ernst Maring.

But... we don't know whether Giovanni Avati drove THIS same car or any other MACO...

It is possible, as Alexander said, that the builder Martini participated in the Turin Show with his own name and then decided to call his car MACO.

[Nanni Dietrich]

Here is reported Giovanni Avati's MACO, winner of three races in the 1970s
http://www.motorspor...a850.italie.pdf

[arttidesco]

Wondering if anybody knows anything about this brown what looks like Kremer 935 equipped for the road ?

I tried to find more details from the website that posted it to know avail.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses

Edited by arttidesco, 13 July 2010 - 01:27.

[arttidesco]

Doh! It's a still from the Cannonball Run