366 replies to this topic

[jesee]

They said that Fuji was being on pole, that he wrecked his tyres, then came Monaco and they said that he was lucky...well i await their verdict on Silverstone. That was a textbook demonstartion of control, how to wreck the opposition, how to lap your competitors! To me Hami and Alonso are the new Rainmasters. Pity that stretegywise and carwise fonzi doesn't have the car.

[Ferrim]

There is a lot about having a good wet weather setup as well. No F1 driver is 5 seconds quicker than other under the same conditions, and that applies for Hamilton, for Alonso, for Schumacher, for Senna, for everyone.

But of course, some guys seem to be better at getting it right under wet conditions, and Hamilton excels at that.

[Atreiu]

His best today was to keep it under controle and not do anything silly when Raikkonen was behind and driving much faster. It would have been very easy for him to commit a mistake under such pressure in the race and entire championship itself, but he kept it together and literally drove off to the distance after the first stop.

Another fantastic and impressive win.

All he needs now is to make his bad days less only bad instead of horrible.

[jesee]

I also feel that Alonso is extremely good but in terms of strategy his team is letting him down. The way the guy wriggles results from that dog of a car is amazing. I would love to see him in a competitive car. Anyway, anybody who doubted hamilton talents really has to eat his words. Except for some brain fades sometimes, that boy is amazing. I was at Stoweand Jeez, the conditions out there were horrible. Amazing drive really.

[RacingBelle]

New rainmaster?

Okay....explain China.

[bankoq]

Raikkonen then must be called also new rain master because he was much faster than Lewis until his team made stupid mistake with not changing his tires.

But of course Lewis is great in wet conditions, but there are about 2-3 more drivers also very good at it.

[Galko877]

Hamilton is indeed very impressive in wet conditions. He always has been. Even on the Nürburgring when he was a made fun of because of his mistake and the crane story - but if you looked closely his lap times, in the wet they were a lot quicker than Alonso's.

The boy has a great feel for the car, there's no way denying that.

[bond]

Originally posted by bankoq
Raikkonen then must be called also new rain master because he was much faster than Lewis until his team made stupid mistake with not changing his tires.

But of course Lewis is great in wet conditions, but there are about 2-3 more drivers also very good at it.

Yeah, right. With the track going dry

[Crazy Ninja]

Give it a few more wet races before we crown him the new rainmaster. Brilliant performance today. Fuji aswell but, well, he was at the front most the race so no doubt it was an advantage. Its obvious he has a great natural talent for drving very fast in the wet. Lets see how it develops.

[pottiella]

not a big fan on Lewis, but I have to say that Fernando and Lewis seem to be the only ones who really keep it together in rain.

Its difficult to call because Fernando had some awesome wet races against the predecessor rainmaster, Schumi; and now Alonso's in a crap car, he's still holding it together well but obviously Lewis is in a much more dominant car. Last year Fernando was pretty sublime in nurburgring (the only driver to stay on the track except winkelhock!), and Lewis won Fuji pretty much from the front with no spray in his face (I don't count Alonso's performance in Fuji as Vettel touched him and desperation kicked in from double championship defence slipping away) - but obviously lewis won today with plenty of spray in his face. Then Fernando today was about the only one to keep his car on the road at all times, even when he was running in full wet on worn intermediates defending against a Ferrari and McLaren, and a BMW at times (which he also overtook earlier on in wet but on good tyres).

So yeah, I'd like to see Lewis handle a difficult car and poor tyres in wet...but since he's not been there yet, who's to say he won't?

Kimi's not bad in wet, but the same can be said about a few other drivers who are 'not bad' in wet.

Massa is absolutely atrocious in any wet race (and yes yes, he has a couple of poles and lapped cars in monaco wet...but lapping cars who are slower and meant to get out the way doesn't count!).

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by RacingBelle
New rainmaster?

Okay....explain China.

Rookie, championship pressure, perhaps too self confident as well, bad call by the team, etc.


Nobody judges Schumacher by Monaco 1996. Nobody judges Senna by Spa 1992.


So show me a pilot who never screwed up and I'll show you one who never raced at all.

[jesee]

I wish Alonso can go to Ferari. To me and this is just my opinion, Lewis and Fonzi are the best drivers out there. I love the absolute commitment of these two guys. I don't dislike Kimi, but to me he is kind of hot and cold. That absolute commitment, the die or live attitude of fonzi and hami really drives my adrenaline crazy...and today i nearly fainted. It was my first visit to Silverstone but Jeez, what a weekend

[Galko877]

Originally posted by pottiella


Its difficult to call because Fernando had some awesome wet races against the predecessor rainmaster, Schumi;

Tyre war was pretty much an issue back then, as you can remember...

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Originally posted by jesee
To me Hami and Alonso are the new Rainmasters.

The same Alonso that was beaten by a Honda?

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by Atreiu


Nobody judges Senna by Spa 1992.

Eh, what was wrong with that drive?


Lewis did great today but it´s not exactly
that he was the only one...

[jesee]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer


The same Alonso that was beaten by a Honda? [/
QUOTE]

The honda was in extreme wets, Fonzi was in inters. You could see that clearly there was time when Reubens was even faster that Hami due to tyres. Clearly to me, Renault is worse that a dog of a car, but look at Fonzi's commitment. He gives it all. I didn't like his attitude last year, but he has always had respect from me...and that is from a Mclaren fan!

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Originally posted by Atreiu
Nobody judges Schumacher by Monaco 1996. Nobody judges Senna by Spa 1992.

Schumacher also lost in in Interlagos 2003. And Senna in Adelaide 1989. Nevertheless I would still consider Schumacher and Senna as the best rain drivers, but if Hamilton keeps performing perhaps he can challenge them.

[Torch]

Originally posted by jesee
I wish Alonso can go to Ferari. To me and this is just my opinion, Lewis and Fonzi are the best drivers out there. I love the absolute commitment of these two guys. I don't dislike Kimi, but to me he is kind of hot and cold. That absolute commitment, the die or live attitude of fonzi and hami really drives my adrenaline crazy...and today i nearly fainted. It was my first visit to Silverstone but Jeez, what a weekend

Not an Alonso supporter, but I would definately love to see him in a top car battling for wins (esp. head to head vs Lewis).


Re. Lewis being a rainmaster..... you can't deny he seems to do well every time it's wet. It's happened too many times to call it luck now. Even at China he was quick, despite blowing his tyres and deciding to stay with them until they were down to the canvas.

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by Fortymark


Eh, what was wrong with that drive?


Lewis did great today but it´s not exactly
that he was the only one...

Bad tyre choice/gamble in a wet race. He didn't drive them to canvas and spin, but he still had a bad wet race by his standards. It was just the first example to come to my mind.

My point is that even Senna and Schumacher had their bad wet races, but nobody judges them only by them.

Crying out loud China 2007 everytime Hamilton wins a wet race form now on is just foolish.

[jesee]

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer


Schumacher also lost in in Interlagos 2003. And Senna in Adelaide 1989. Nevertheless I would still consider Schumacher and Senna as the best rain drivers, but if Hamilton keeps performing perhaps he can challenge them.

+1

To me lewis is far from the level of Senna. This was the all time rain master. Hami is in his 2nd season, so he could well be better in future. Going by today, you have to say the boy has what it takes.

[Galko877]

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer


Schumacher also lost in in Interlagos 2003. And Senna in Adelaide 1989. Nevertheless I would still consider Schumacher and Senna as the best rain drivers, but if Hamilton keeps performing perhaps he can challenge them.

When they are aquaplaning even the greatest wet weather drivers are helpless. It can happen to anyone and it did to Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton etc.

Being a great rain driver doesn't mean they never make mistakes on the wet. But it means they excel under wet conditions in the vast majority of the cases. And I thing that applies to Lewis. If you are not closing your eyes deliberately you can see he is great on a wet track. Period.

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Originally posted by Fortymark


Eh, what was wrong with that drive?

The rainmaster finished fifth in a wet race that was won by a guy in his first full season in an inferior car.

[pottiella]

Originally posted by Galko877


Tyre war was pretty much an issue back then, as you can remember...

absolutely everything in F1 is circumstancial mate...but equally you could say that one car is faster than the other.

We could get into a huge debate about 2006, but I could do the same about this year or last year, about anyone's performance and why they looked as good as they have.

Take monaco for example; Lewis won the race in a commanding fashion in rain...but why? 1. He screwed up in rain, and that allowed him to make a strategy change to give him the edge over a rusty Massa and a slower car of Kubica. 2. once he got the 1st place, he kept it together, unlike Massa, who could have still taken 2nd place if he was better in rain.


Those are the things that make the difference...circumstances play their part, but you need to skill to make it look impressive, and overshadow the circumstances.

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Originally posted by Galko877
If you are not closing your eyes deliberately you can see he is great on a wet track. Period.

I am certainly not closing my eyes but before I put him on level with Senna and Schumacher I like to see more wet races from him.

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by Atreiu


Bad tyre choice/gamble in a wet race. He didn't drive them to canvas and spin, but he still had a bad wet race by his standards. It was just the first example to come to my mind.

My point is that even Senna and Schumacher had their bad wet races, but nobody judges them only by them.

Crying out loud China 2007 everytime Hamilton wins a wet race form now on is just foolish.

Just because your on the wrong tyres or chose a wrong strategy doesn´t make
a poor driver. Sometimes you need to gamble, or better to say, you don´t know
what the right decision will be.
In that race he did the wrong choise but he showed incredible pace and
defending on slick tyres when the others were on wets. I actually
think that Sennas Spa race in -92 is a good example of his skills.

[jesee]

Originally posted by pottiella


absolutely everything in F1 is circumstancial mate...but equally you could say that one car is faster than the other.

We could get into a huge debate about 2006, but I could do the same about this year or last year, about anyone's performance and why they looked as good as they have.

Take monaco for example; Lewis won the race in a commanding fashion in rain...but why? 1. He screwed up in rain, and that allowed him to make a strategy change to give him the edge over a rusty Massa and a slower car of Kubica. 2. once he got the 1st place, he kept it together, unlike Massa, who could have still taken 2nd place if he was better in rain.


Those are the things that make the difference...circumstances play their part, but you need to skill to make it look impressive, and overshadow the circumstances.

That is very true. In Monaco nearly all the top drivers had their crazy moments, all were lucky, but lewis rode his luck more, he seemed to have something else in the car, just like today. If he can control himself when things don't go his way then he can be amazing. I was extremely surprised to see his pace at the beginning today as compared to Kova, though he was actually heavier, than both kimi and kova.

[Galko877]

Originally posted by pottiella


absolutely everything in F1 is circumstancial mate...but equally you could say that one car is faster than the other.

Well, do you honestly think the car mattered in races like Hungary 2006 when the Michelins were several seconds/lap quicker?

I don't want to get into a debate about 2006 either, but I think it's pretty clear the Michelins in wet were ridiculously superior to the Bridgestones that year, so there's no really fair comparation between Schumacher's and Alonso's wet weather abilities.

[stormshadow]

Rainmaster???
U should start this thread when Hamilton wins a race in the wet by coming through the field.
Not when he's ahead with absolutely no pressure!
Think Michael Spain '96

[Galko877]

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer


I am certainly not closing my eyes but before I put him on level with Senna and Schumacher I like to see more wet races from him.

I know, I was talking more generally, not just to you. I agree it's early to put Lewis on the same level as Senna or Schumacher. But at least in wet he has the potential to get on that level. (I think in several other areas maybe he doesn't but that's another subject.)

[Bloggsworth]

Originally posted by RacingBelle
New rainmaster?

Okay....explain China.

Easy - His team left him out on tyres down to the canvas, and didn't tell him, they also didn't tell him the pit lane entrance was still wet - 100% the team's fault.

[Konsta]

Lewis was just brilliant. There´s absolutely no way around that. Could it be that his setup was biased slighly towards rain?

No other comments necessary on this thread.

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Originally posted by pottiella
Take monaco for example; Lewis won the race in a commanding fashion in rain...but why? 1. He screwed up in rain, and that allowed him to make a strategy change to give him the edge over a rusty Massa and a slower car of Kubica. 2. once he got the 1st place, he kept it together, unlike Massa, who could have still taken 2nd place if he was better in rain.

He certainly was helped by the safety car too.

[president evil]

Originally posted by RacingBelle
New rainmaster?

Okay....explain China.

and Nurburgring!

[jesee]

Originally posted by stormshadow
Rainmaster???
U should start this thread when Hamilton wins a race in the wet by coming through the field.
Not when he's ahead with absolutely no pressure!
Think Michael Spain '96

I appreciate your opinion,but i have seen hamilton in the wet races for the last two seasons and without bias you have to say the boy is good. Today he started P4 and made it to the front. He won by over a minute and even lapped kimi. I don't know what perfomance you want from the guy for you to give him his due. Pick for me a driver who has been that consistent in the wet in the last two seasons except hami. That is why i have to say at the moment he is the new rainmaster.

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Originally posted by jesee
though he was actually heavier, than both kimi and kova.

Are you sure? It seemed to me that Lewis and Kimi stopped on the same lap.

[Scotracer]

Originally posted by stormshadow
Rainmaster???
U should start this thread when Hamilton wins a race in the wet by coming through the field.
Not when he's ahead with absolutely no pressure!
Think Michael Spain '96

He started 4th, overtook all those cars before the first corner and only lost the lead because Heikki had the balls. Then, he overtook Heikki, who was on the same tyres, in the same car AND had a lighter fuel-load and pulled away from him. Then he went on to finish the race by almost lapping everyone.

Rainmaster ;)

(PS: and I don't even like him!)

[pottiella]

I'd still prefer to see Lewis in a difficult car in the wet, when still being challenged by rivals. If Kimi didn't have the tyre problem, who knows what the result would have been today as he was reigning in Lewis before they both pitted at the same time.

So I'm happy to give him his dues for being better than MOST in wet, but I'm still reserved until he proves it in adversity, like other 'rainmasters' have done.

[Piif]

A good race from Lewis, but only that. Today he had no one to fight so I'd not jump to any conclusions.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

After the heaviest part of the downfall, when he was lapping 3-4s per lap quicker than Kovalainen and Raikkonen on a heavily wet track on 'intermediate' tyres, that was very impressive. However, Rosberg and Webber were quite close to his pace at the time. Hamilton drove an excellent race today.

[Timstr11]

Originally posted by Piif
Today he had no one to fight so I'd not jump to any conclusions.

He had no one to fight with because he lapped everyone, bar Heidfeld and Barrichello.

[archstanton]

Originally posted by Piif
A good race from Lewis, but only that. Today he had no one to fight so I'd not jump to any conclusions.

so you're saying if he didn't drive 5 or 6 seconds a lap faster than his rivals, then he would be a better RainMaster ??? bizarro.

so now, not only must he win in the wet, but of course not from pole or after "lucky" crashes ... but he also needs to dominate the field, while at the same time making sure to be in a fight .... that'd be some trick, and if he manages it, his reward would no doubt be "China!"

sort it out, this board is unhinged.

[Spunout]

Originally posted by jesee


I appreciate your opinion,but i have seen hamilton in the wet races for the last two seasons and without bias you have to say the boy is good. Today he started P4 and made it to the front. He won by over a minute and even lapped kimi. I don't know what perfomance you want from the guy for you to give him his due. Pick for me a driver who has been that consistent in the wet in the last two seasons except hami. That is why i have to say at the moment he is the new rainmaster.

At the moment = this week ;) Next week it could be him, Räikkönen, Alonso, Kubica...

Hamilton sure as hell hasn´t been "most consistent" rainmaster of 2007-08, BTW.



Last year:

Nurburgring

- Alonso the new rainmaster. Passes Massa for the win. Hamilton cocks up, Räikkönen misses pitlane.

Fuji

- Hamilton the new rainmaster. Wins. Alonso spins, Räikkönen struggles to recover from strategy error.

Shanghai

- Räikkönen the new rainmaster. Saves his tyres to win. Hamilton pushes too hard and goes off -> DNF.

[D.M.N.]

Originally posted by Spunout
Last year:

Nurburgring

- Alonso the new rainmaster. Passes Massa for the win. Hamilton cocks up, Räikkönen misses pitlane.

Shanghai

- Räikkönen the new rainmaster. Saves his tyres to win. Hamilton pushes too hard and goes off -> DNF.

I'm a Ferrari fan but I dispute both.

Nurburgring Hamilton made a cock-up but Turn 1 when he slid off was turning into a complete swimming pool and most drivers headed off there. There was a wrong tyre choice too I believe, McLaren fault.

Shanghai, McLaren failed to bring in Hamilton in earlier, not Hamilton's fault in my book.

[Spunout]

Originally posted by D.M.N.


I'm a Ferrari fan but I dispute both.

Nurburgring Hamilton made a cock-up but Turn 1 when he slid off was turning into a complete swimming pool and most drivers headed off there. There was a wrong tyre choice too I believe, McLaren fault.

Shanghai, McLaren failed to bring in Hamilton in earlier, not Hamilton's fault in my book.

Well, ATM he was smth like 2 secs per lap slower. Today Ferrari messed up and forced Kimi to survive an entire stint with crap tyres, costing him 7-8 seconds per lap in atrocious conditions. He pulled it off and scored 4th place. Had LH done the same in Shanghai, he´d be World Champion. Yeah, McLaren made wrong choice. But Lewis had fair chance to keep his car on track and score nice points. Nobody forced him to push too hard on slowest part of the track.

I simply cannot see how going off wasn´t his fault?

[gaston_foix]

Originally posted by D.M.N.


I'm a Ferrari fan but I dispute both.

Nurburgring Hamilton made a cock-up but Turn 1 when he slid off was turning into a complete swimming pool and most drivers headed off there. There was a wrong tyre choice too I believe, McLaren fault.

Shanghai, McLaren failed to bring in Hamilton in earlier, not Hamilton's fault in my book.

Yes, but who destroyed his tyres?

Today, all 3 Hamm, Alonso, Hammi were good. Race of 2 of them was compromised by a wrong strategy. I say that Fred and Hammi are better than Kimi looking to the first stint, where both lapped faster than Kimi.

[craftverk]

The fact that Kimi was LAPPED by Lewis convinces me enough to call Lewis a rain master. Surely, Kimi should've pushed hard enough to stay ahead of Lewis and not get lapped? And also the fact that Lewis could've gone faster... it's quite outstanding.

[gaston_foix]

Originally posted by craftverk
The fact that Kimi was LAPPED by Lewis convinces me enough to call Lewis a rain master. Surely, Kimi should've pushed hard enough to stay ahead of Lewis and not get lapped? And also the fact that Lewis could've gone faster... it's quite outstanding.

Your knowledge about F1 is very limited my frend

[JRUK]

Lewis' good wet races: Fuji, Silverstone
Lewis' bad wet races: Shanghai, Nurburgring

That makes 2 of each. Saying that he is either brilliant or terrible in the rain is a little premature don't you think?

[Bloggsworth]

Originally posted by Piif
A good race from Lewis, but only that. Today he had no one to fight so I'd not jump to any conclusions.

I'd hate to be on your Christmas list........................ Scrooge rides again.

[Mauseri]

I think Kimi was better. It's easy to drive fast with the best wet weather car in the front, but Kimi made it an hell of a race worth watching