35 replies to this topic

[r.atlos]

It is almost 10 years ago that a strange, British-built Gr.6 racer re-surfaced in Germany. Some of you may still remember this plea for help from Horst Auer in C&SC of June 1999:



Although its history in Germany is well-known (not much of a racing history, I am afraid - but loads of owners ...) I am still at a loss as to what this car's UK origins had been. The last time it was heard of in the UK was through this advert in Autosport on 24/12/1970 and 31/12/1970:



It appears that it had been sold less engine and gearbox at the time; however, a small ad with the same phone number appeared in June 1970 and at that time the car had been offered with a BRM V8 engine and gearbox.

Not sure whether this is a red hering or not: During its life in Germany the car has always been refered to as an "ex-works Falcon". Any idea ?

[Bloggsworth]

My first instinct was a Nomad BRM, but the nose looks to long, and an aluminium body, not likely from Bob Curl.................

Elan +2 in the background may be a clue.

[Richard Young]

Felday ?

[Bloggsworth]

Good thinking Batman.......................

[sterling49]

I saw Clark and Mac Daghorn and Westbury driving the Felday BRM, this did not strike me as Felday at all, but I have been known to make the odd error (.............as my wife keeps telling me ) The Felday that I saw had a much more rounded front, a bit like Roger Nathan's 2 litre racer.

[Vitesse2]

Hmm - Nomadish, but a bit too bulky at the front.

Too late for a Felday, surely?

I thought maybe it was a Gropa, but that doesn't seem to fit either.

Now - you ain't gonna believe this - really you're not! - but the same phone number appears in a classified ad in The Times of Nov 7th 1972, seeking a third person to share a "luxury flat" @ £7.50 per week!!

[sterling49]

Is that the BMW rondel on the side? Maybe a clue. I also think it was a bit late for Felday.This is a longshot, Clive Lacey drove a sports prototype in clubbies at Brands, but I cannot remember the name of it, but I think it had a beemer motor?

[r.atlos]

Indeed, it is a BMW roundel. As the car was previously BRM-powered and then sold without engine some 6 months later (probably shortly after this advert shot had been taken) I would rather see it as some kind of sponsorship. Any connection between Walton-on-Thames and a BMW dealer may be ?

As to Lacey, do you mean his BT8 rebodied as a coupé which he raced during 1968 and 1969 ? Clive was from Dorking, Surrey, if I am not mistaken.

[r.atlos]

Just to compare where the other possible candidates you mentioned have been:

- Nomad Mk.1 / Coupé:
sold to Julian Hasler and Peter Jackson at the beginning of 1969;

- Nomad Mk.2 / Spyder:
still with Mark Konig in 1970 and offered for sale on 28/01/1971 less engine (at this time our "candidate" was already offered for sale in Germany by its new Munich owner)

- Nomad Mk.3:
still active throughout 1971

- Felday 4:
still with John McCartney, Horwich, Bolton, in Oct. 1970 (complete with engine); with Low Cost Racing, Farnham, Surrey in Sept. 1971 (without engine)

- Felday 5:
with Pearce in Jan. 1968 (without engine, transmission, instruments)

[Ray Bell]

Looks to me like the engine's been out of it when the pic was taken...

But it certainly has the basic dimensions (wheel sizes etc) to be a car in which such an engine would be used.

[Bloggsworth]

Willment-BRM - I seem to recall a BRM powered sportscar of that ilk.

Although the only picture I can find is this, but this one is a closed coupe.................

http://20832.com/ima...519_h/B5059.jpg

[Stephen W]

Possibly a rebodied Chevron B8?

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by sterling49
Is that the BMW rondel on the side? Maybe a clue. ..This is a longshot, Clive Lacey drove a sports prototype in clubbies at Brands, but I cannot remember the name of it, but I think it had a beemer motor?

That was probably the Courtney GT, ISTR at one time with a 2.5 Climax motor. The BMW link for him may be via CMM Williams who drove Lacey's BT8 at Goodwood in March '66, Williams being one of the first proponents of the 1991cc BMW engine.

At a tangent... the Felday 4 is now with a well known engineer/restorer who hopes to rebuild it in full 4WD spec, but is desperate for any drawings for the chain drive transfer box and fabricated chassis parts.

Roger Lund.

[r.atlos]

Wasn't it called Courtenay ? That was BT8 #SC-4-64 with continous history through to David Capstick and Keith Grant until 1971 and then in the 80s with Bob Stillwell in the US.

Who or what was Courtenay ? The name appeared when it was transformed from the open BT8 Spyder to its Coupé form for the 1968 season.

[r.atlos]

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
Willment-BRM - I seem to recall a BRM powered sportscar of that ilk.

Although the only picture I can find is this, but this one is a closed coupe.................

The Willment-BRM turned into the Mysteron GT in 1968; it appeared without engine in January 1970 in Henley-on-Thames, then in Oct. 1970 with J.A. Pearce and in 1972 with a certain Mr. Ford in Ottershaw, Surrey. At that time, its name had been changed to "Mistron". In the 1980s, it had been converted back to its original spyder form and was raced by Anthony Taylor.

The photo below is thought to be from a Snetterton event from the 1980s, showing Anthony Taylor:


(Photo: NN; Copyright: Lutz M.)

Wasn't the Willment a monocoque design, anyhow ?

[Mistron]

Originally posted by r.atlos
The Willment-BRM turned into the Mysteron GT in 1968; it appeared without engine in January 1970 in Henley-on-Thames, then in Oct. 1970 with J.A. Pearce and in 1972 with a certain Mr. Ford in Ottershaw, Surrey. At that time, its name had been changed to "Mistron". In the 1980s, it had been converted back to its original spyder form and was raced by Anthony Taylor.

Causing much confusion to me when I bought a completely unrelated car which was sold to me as being called the 'Mysteron', but subsequently turned out to be called 'Mistron'............

I don't know what the mystery car in he first post is, but it's certainly not either of the Feldays or any of the Nomads.

Could it be a Heron? http://www.classicdr...00.asp?id=13148

nose is a bit different, but the rear looks quite similar

and on a completely different note -

Now - you ain't gonna believe this - really you're not! - but the same phone number appears in a classified ad in The Times of Nov 7th 1972, seeking a third person to share a "luxury flat" @ £7.50 per week!!

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS????? - it seems a remarkably obscure fact to be able to link 2 adverts by a phone number - are you perhaps lifting the Lino in the kitchen and found a copy of the Times from '72?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Mistron

and on a completely different note -

Now - you ain't gonna believe this - really you're not! - but the same phone number appears in a classified ad in The Times of Nov 7th 1972, seeking a third person to share a "luxury flat" @ £7.50 per week!!

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS????? - it seems a remarkably obscure fact to be able to link 2 adverts by a phone number - are you perhaps lifting the Lino in the kitchen and found a copy of the Times from '72?

I'm good at obscure ;)

Actually, all I did was input the number 28771 in The Times Online Archive search for the years 1968-72, in case it might be a dealer. There were five hits, all phone numbers: two for Geest Lines in Southampton, two for William Hill in Crawley and the one I quoted above!

[r.atlos]

... and thought you were pulling my legs, Richard !

[Mr Plug]

I could be way off with this, but about that time I seem to remember a young guy appearing at UK sports car races with a one-off car. His surname was Ridehalgh....can't remember his first name. Quite a talented engineer, nicely built car....not exceptionally successful though, IIRC.

[r.atlos]

Indeed, Martin Ridehalgh with his Dulon LD11 with Porsche engine. I do recall him from a number of WC races in 1971, not sure what he raced before that.

[Vitesse2]

Martin Ridehalgh? Pedalled a Dulon LD11P-Porsche, but that was '71-72. He was still in saloons in 1970, running a Cooper S.

Dammit, Lutz - you beat me to it!

[Bloggsworth]

I think the "Very professionally built" tells us that it wasn't a Dulon............................

[Bloggsworth]

Just had a chat with Bob Curl; his initial suggestion (without seeing the picture) was the Darren-BRM produced for the Targa Florio, but that was quite a small car; he then recalled that there was a Parnell-BRM which would certainly have been "Very professionally made".

He suggests contacting Rick Hall, who worked at BRM, and is, as it happens, currently restoring a Nomad-BRM, apparently, he knows the book on BRM engines.

Hall and Hall,
Graham Hill Way,
Cherry Holt Road,
Bourne,
Lincs.
PE10 9PJ
Tel: 01778 392562
Fax: 01778 392561

[Vitesse2]

Nope - Parnell-BRM doesn't fit. Built 1966 and used by Mike Spence to win both the Anerley Trophy and the Lavant Cup.

[Bloggsworth]

Why does that rule it out as being for sale 4 years later? I only ask!

Peter Gethin drove a Crossle-BRM at Crystal Palace that year.

[Bloggsworth]

Amazing what you find when trawling back, for instance, I never knew that Brian Redman raced a Diva - mind you, it was a year after I left Don Sim's employ.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
Why does that rule it out as being for sale 4 years later? I only ask!

Complete in every aspect and only raced once

[Gregor Marshall]

What about some sort of Rawlson? The back end looks a bit similar and they were small cars.

[Bloggsworth]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Missed that bit - Doh!

[Bloggsworth]

I was trying to recall what a Martin-BMW looked like, but Brian(?) certainly raced it more than once.

[kayemod]

Taydec?

[Bloggsworth]

Nose doesn't look right - Did Huron ever use a BRM?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
Nose doesn't look right - Did Huron ever use a BRM?

Possibly, but they didn't start building cars until 1971 ...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by kayemod
Taydec?

FVC engine and built in Yorkshire - which is a long way from Walton-on-Thames.

[RS2000]

The std code for Walton on Thames is 01932. I lived there between 1975 and 1986 and my telephone number did not change - but I have a feeling numbers had changed before that, by adding a 2 in front of existing numbers. HWM today has a number begining "22".
Searching using 01932 228771 gives hits of someone aged 14 looking for local baby sitting work, on a Burwood Park residents association forum and a travel organiser. The address is Onslow Road, on the edge of Burwood Park.
The private estate of Burwood Park has long had motorsport connections. Past residents included Bruce and Pat McLaren and one of the Japanese drivers in F1 (which one completely escapes me for the moment). The car is obviously not pictured at Burwood Park, so the contact is someone who lived there, maybe when the house was split into flats, given Vitesse2's research, but still almost certainly someone of substance.

[r.atlos]

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
Why does that rule it out as being for sale 4 years later? I only ask!

Peter Gethin drove a Crossle-BRM at Crystal Palace that year.

Another good reason why I would rule out the Parnell-BRM: It was with John Foulston in 1982 and apparently in perfect shape.

However, your comment about a Crosslé-BRM intrigued me (although not the shape and probably not the size). I am pretty sure the 9S used by Gethin at the Oulton Park TT was BMW-powered. The only other hint was a Crosslé (probably another 9S) sold by Robs Lamplough in 1967 with "full phase II, BRM Lotus Cortina engine".