159 replies to this topic

[OfficeLinebacker]

Apparently the diamond-ground surface is still murder on tires. Goodyear has increased each team's allotment.

http://www.nascar.co...ory_single.html

Apparently the tires cord in about 11 laps. A fuel run is 25 laps. The teams are digging massive amounts of rubber dust out of everything, including cooling ducts.

[ColdHeart]

The track was last ground 3 1/2 years ago.

[qwazy]

I love the ESPN commentators who become NASCAR/Goodyear apologists, refusing to point the finger at Goodyear for bringing a terrible tire.

"As more rubber gets laid down, the situation will become better. You can't blame Goodyear for this..."

Unfortunately for Dale Jarret, it's a bit of a Catch-22;


To make the tires work, you have to lay down rubber
To lay down rubber, you have to make laps
To make laps, you need a tire that works
To make the tires work...

[Ross Stonefeld]

So they go 5 laps and pit. 43 cars doing 5 laps will rubber up the track. Then they'll be able to go 10 laps, then 20, etc.

I don't think the new car is helping, but the way they setup and drive those things doesn't make it any easier on Goodyear.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by qwazy
I love the ESPN commentators who become NASCAR/Goodyear apologists, refusing to point the finger at Goodyear for bringing a terrible tire.

"As more rubber gets laid down, the situation will become better. You can't blame Goodyear for this..."

In this instance the commentators are correct. Tread abrasion is generally a problem at Indy. They go through this every year. It's not just the diamond grinding. The track is big and fast but the corners are tight and flat. And now this is the first race for the CoT at Indy. The CoT slides more because it has less downforce and transfers more load onto the right side because it has a higher CG. Meanwhile the teams are running the shakers and K&C rigs 24/7 to get the tires to do exactly what they are doing. This is what a bumpstop setup is designed to do: work the tire into the asperities in the track. Through rotation the tread is essentially being torn from the carcass.

So at this stage of the game the teams are basically at war with their tires. They are doing their best to destroy them. If the tires do prove to be a problem today, that means the teams won this time. Goodyear could win the round by bringing a harder tire, and then you get a situation like Atlanta. This game is rigged and Goodyear can't win. If you understand the game you already know this.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Originally posted by McGuire


If the tires do prove to be a problem today, that means the teams won this time. Goodyear could win the round by bringing a harder tire

In which case Tony Stewart wins?

[Kooper]

I don't really understand how Goodyear screwed the pooch so bad. Did they fail to take into account the temperature differences between April & the end of July?

http://msn.foxsports...o-monitor-tires

NASCAR orders mandatory cautions to monitor tires

Updated: July 27, 2008, 10:16 AM EST

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - NASCAR has ordered competition cautions during its race at Indianapolis Motor Speedway over worries about the Goodyear tires used by the circuit.

Drivers and crew chiefs complained after practice on Saturday that the tires were wearing down too quickly on the 2.5-mile track and are concerned they might not have enough tires to complete Sunday's 400-mile race.
There will be a mandatory caution on lap 10, allowing drivers to pit and change tires without losing track position. NASCAR vice president of competition Robin Pemberton said additional competition cautions may be necessary if the situation does not improve.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/69469

During the two final sessions before the race and following qualifying, teams were unable to make a set of tyres last more than ten laps before the cords started to show up on the inside and outside edges of the right sides, specially the right front tyre.
Some cars wouldn't even manage to complete more than eight laps on one set, while a green-flag fuel run would be around thirty laps. That means in the best of cases, tyres would last less than half of that before their performance would start to drop off massively.
Despite pressure from some teams and drivers to get more sets of tyres available for the race, NASCAR has allocated up to ten sets per car, expecting tyre wear will improve as the track rubbers in during the race.

http://www.nascar.co...cern/index.html

Goodyear has a new tire combination at Indy, with a softer left-side compound. The tire company has 3,150 tires, equally divided between left-side and right-side tires. The package was developed in an April tire test conducted by Dale Earnhardt Jr., Kurt Busch and Brian Vickers

[Ross Stonefeld]

Mandatory cautions are neither new or dramatic.

[Kooper]

No they are not. But I don't think they've ever been at just 10 laps... more like 20-30 IIRC.

[CWeil]

They did last year at, what, 15 and 40?

[Risil]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Mandatory cautions are neither new or dramatic.

Could swear they had one at Montreal in the F1 this year.

[Kooper]

http://nascar.speedt...-tires-at-indy/

BREAKING NEWS: Pocono Tires At Indy

Written by: Tom Jensen   
07/27/2008 - 09:27 AM
Indianapolis, Ind.

Faced with a potential for massive tire problems at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, NASCAR will throw a competition caution after 10 laps in today’s Allstate 400 at the Brickyard, and continue with additional mandatory cautions every 10-15 laps as needed if excessive tire wear continues.

And in a worst-case scenario, Goodyear has trucked in 800 tires that were scheduled to be used next week at Pocono Raceway. If the teams go through their allotted 10 sets of Indy tires, NASCAR will issue another caution-flag period, during which time all teams will be brought into the pits to replace their Indy tires with Pocono tires, NASCAR Vice President of Competition Robin Pemberton said Sunday morning at IMS.

The drastic steps are a result of severe wear issues encountered earlier this weekend.

During practice Friday and Saturday for the race, teams reported right-side tires wearing out in as little as four to five laps. In years past, teams had similar problems early in practice, but the wear generally dissipated as practices wore on and rubber got put down on the track. Typically, by the time the first green-flag run was completed in the race, there would be enough rubber on the track that tires were no longer an issue.

This weekend’s problems have been far, far worse, however, exacerbated by NASCAR’s new-generation Sprint Cup race car, which is heavier than the car it replaced and puts substantially more wear on right-side tires. In addition, during practice this year, teams have been concerned about rubber from worn tires clogging radiator openings, causing potential overheating problems

[pingu666]

should be a interesting race then...

[jonpollak]

Reminds me of that 2005 debacle ....
But at least Ze Max isn't throwing anyone under the bus and we get some form of a "RACE"

Jp

[whitewaterMkII]

Originally posted by pingu666
should be a interesting race then...

doesn't sound like a race to me...
sounds like both a major league **** up and bush league effort to mitigate a disaster

[saudoso]

Bridgestone must be

[OfficeLinebacker]

Originally posted by jonpollak
Reminds me of that 2005 debacle ....
But at least ... we get some form of a "RACE"

Jp

Yeah I was shocked when I saw that they actually trucked in the Pocono tires.

I think it's neat that they have the tires all manufactured already and they got them to Indy.

Agreed--this should indeed prove very interesting. I'd wager that the tire-management masters such as Gordon and Stewart should do well.

[wrighty]

there is a live feed for this if anyone needs the link

[jonpollak]

Looks like the lap 10 caution is a moot point... they moved it to lap 14
Jp

[Denier]

Why does Michael Waltrip bother?

[devil500]

Originally posted by Denier
Why does Michael Waltrip bother?

Cause he has his own team..If I was an owner he'd never be in a car again

[jonpollak]

Kurt blows a right rear....
NASCAR got the tyre lifespan about right.
Jp

[devil500]

Originally posted by saudoso
Bridgestone must be

Yeah

[wrighty]

nice save from jr

[jonpollak]

Jr.'s right rear goes down....
:

Jp

[jonpollak]

Juanito blows his right rear....
The right side of the car is trashed too...
Guess who leads...
It's SHRUB

Jp

[whitewaterMkII]

Ridiculous, now it's Kenseth.

Might as well rename this race the Indianapolis Lottery 400

[D A]

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII
Ridiculous, now it's Kenseth.

Might as well rename this race the Indianapolis Lottery 400

The right rear of his car was destroyed. Massive damage.

[Buford]

I have hardly ever seen anything like this - one or two times in 60 years. Are they gonna run out of tires? Lots of empty seats I see.

[wrighty]

Originally posted by Buford
I have hardly ever seen anything like this - one or two times in 60 years. Are they gonna run out of tires? Lots of empty seats I see.

they shipped in 800 (i think) pocono tyres just in case, not that they needed em, ooooh no ;)

[VoidNT]

This is a disaster.

[Risil]

Originally posted by VoidNT
This is a disaster.

Well, they'll be back next week. And in 30 years' time it'll have its own place in TNF's 'Darnedest Races You Ever Saw' thread.;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

Is this on any TVU or Sopcast streams?

[D A]

Sopcast, 39461 channel id.

[Jhope]

channelsurfing.net

[OfficeLinebacker]

Montoya actually had to pull out of the race due to health reasons--the blown tire caused damage to his fresh air/AC system. He pulled behind the wall and is apparently being treated by medical staff.

Car itself was still racy, lap time-wise.

Incredible.

[Buford]

http://www.justin.tv/kandi_man

[TheD2JBug]

By far the worst tyre debacle ever in NASCAR . Charlotte a couple years ago was bad , but this is insane.

The Pocono tyre isn't much different from the one they're running

6 yellows in 80 laps

[wrighty]

Originally posted by TheD2JBug
By far the worst tyre debacle ever in NASCAR . Charlotte a couple years ago was bad , but this is insane.

The Pocono tyre isn't much different from the one they're running

6 yellows in 80 laps

it was mentioned in pre-race that the Pocono tyres are better than the current ones, to the point that engine-builders were concerned the extra revs would burst the motors

[jonpollak]

Word is that the Pocono tyre can be put on when the teams are down to 2 sets of the current tyre.

Jp

[TheD2JBug]

yah , and immediately after the GY guy said that he said it wan't much different than the current car.

Looks like it's a matter of running out of fresh tyres.

[TheD2JBug]

Mike Helton sez they gots plenty of tyres .. says it's 'a little better'

The rubber isn't sticking to the tarmac , the marbles are insane

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by saudoso
Bridgestone must be

And Michelin goes; I told you so!. Question is, will Goodyear reimburse the paying spectators?

What crap race this turned out to be

[wrighty]

the Nascar guy's gonna cry isn't he? omg, this is bad

[TheD2JBug]

Originally posted by VresiBerba
And Michelin goes; I told you so!. Question is, will Goodyear reimburse the paying spectators?

What crap race this turned out to be

we're still having a race , and Goodyear didn't try putting a gun to NASCAR's head

[wrighty]

oh, closing the pitlane before the mandatory caution's a new one.....mid-race?

[y2cragie]

Originally posted by wrighty
oh, closing the pitlane before the mandatory caution's a new one.....mid-race?

changing rules on the fly, gotta keep with the stupidity of this race.

[TheD2JBug]

Originally posted by wrighty
oh, closing the pitlane before the mandatory caution's a new one.....mid-race?

stopping the short pitters

[stevewf1]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Mandatory cautions are neither new or dramatic.

Not a NASCAR fan here, but what happened with F1 at Indy in 2005?

At least these guys are out there - "racing" or not...

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by TheD2JBug
we're still having a race , and Goodyear didn't try putting a gun to NASCAR's head

If this is what you call a race, I'm dying to know what you'd call a farce.