177 replies to this topic

[Joe Bosworth]

I saw a bit of a squib in the local paper over the weekend that all of?? - some of ?? the Dawson-Damer collection was going to auction soon.

I won't go into details as my local rag's info is sometimes very suspect.

Having waved the flag for attention I will leave it to others with easier/better sources to fill in the details.

If true, it has to be one of the most notable sales for many years.

Regards

[Graham Gauld]

Yes it is true and what an interesting collection it is, Probably the best outside Clive Chapman's own.
John Dawson-Damer, who was killed at the Goodwood Festival some years ago, was a truly charming guy.The collection is being sold by the Bonhams-Goodmans Group in Sydney on November 16 and I am sure a lot of the big time collectors will be there to consider the following single seaters

Lotus 16
Lotus 18
Lotus 25
Lotus 39 Tasman
Lotus 63
Lotus 79

[David Beard]

Very interesting.
Did the 63 get repaired after the Goodwood accident?

[David McKinney]

A picture of the 39 was recently posted on the 'Photos from the Track' thread

[Vitesse2]

http://www.bonhamsan...php?article=213

[Derek Pitt]

Lets hope the 39 stays in Australia...at least it has a colourful local history.

Where is the 49?

Derek

[Doug Nye]

My understanding is that the Lotus 49 is being retained by the Dawson-Damer family. The Lotus 63 has indeed been rebuilt.

DCN

[Ray Bell]

I guess we will see it again at the Tasman Revival at Eastern Creek...

Will we see you there, Doug?

[Joe Bosworth]

Two things about the auction sale spring to mind.

1. I wonder if/how someone wanting to keep the collection together might get that together. It would be a shame to see the collection broken up beyond the D-D family keeping what they want.

2. Strikes me that the price expectations for the 25 are lower than I would expect. The $1 to 1.8 million range puts it lower than say D Type sales with the 25 provenance being argueably better based on drivers and WDC.

Regards

[Derek Pitt]

Who knows......

As far as the Lotus 39 goes..... maybe an aussie with the intials L.G. who still has a Repco V8 Tasman engine under his bench and the right paint colours, might be interested in saving the car for us aussies to enjoy once more....

Dream on Derek.....

I can almost see the gloss of the advertisement in the pages of Motor Sport from here....."ex-Jim Clark Tasman car" ......etc etc..no other history worth mentioning.......

[Ray Bell]

I don't know any Aussies with the initials 'L.G.' who might have a Repco V8 under their bench at all...

And I can't think of a single former owner of the 39 who might be able to afford to buy it anyway.

[Derek Pitt]

well Ray

I did indicate i was dreaming .......and more is the pity.

Maybe we could form a syndicate..get 500 aussies to put up $1,000 each and save the car.....am i still dreaming?

Derek

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Derek Pitt
I can almost see the gloss of the advertisement in the pages of Motor Sport from here....."ex-Jim Clark Tasman car" ......etc etc..no other history worth mentioning.......

That's how I would advertise it in Motor Sport, or anywhere else outside Australia
Do you really think any potential buyer in Europe or America would be in the slightest bit interested that it won some insignificant national championship on the other side of the world?

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Derek Pitt
well Ray

I did indicate i was dreaming .......and more is the pity.

Maybe we could form a syndicate..get 500 aussies to put up $1,000 each and save the car.....am i still dreaming?

Derek

Dreams are just that, UNFORTUNATELY but in this case, i really wish they could come true.......................................

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David McKinney
That's how I would advertise it in Motor Sport, or anywhere else outside Australia
Do you really think any potential buyer in Europe or America would be in the slightest bit interested that it won some insignificant national championship on the other side of the world?

And would they also source the flat 16 Climax that it was supposed to have in it?

And completely forget it won the Japan GP...

[fines]

May 3, 1969 indeed!

http://www.jaf.or.jp...e_id=1969110040

David, I don't think the antipodean history of this car is so uninteresting for European or American investors - what "significant" achievements did it have otherwise?

[David McKinney]

I wasn't dismissing its antipodean history, merely saying that as Jim Clark's Tasman Series mount it was of some international importance, whereas its record in Leo Geoghegan's hands was not as significant

[Torston]

The most significant thing about the 39 (for overseas buyers), is that the local Moveable Heritage laws would prevent it leaving the country!

[Derek Pitt]

Yup Fines,

The Lotus 39 was not very successful in the Tasman Championship, even in the hands of the great Jim Clark .

It was only after Leo Geohegan put the Repco V8 into it and sorted the car fully, that it began to achieve success....I recall LG qualifying between Clark and Hill's Lotus 49' Cosworths on at least one occasion, not to mention many successes in the "insignifcant" local Australian Gold Star races during the late 60's period.

If British, European and American "investors" are going to buy the car on the basis that Jim Clark once raced it with moderate success in the Tasman Series and in so doing, are going to ignore the car's definitive later history, then I would suggest the wrong people are going to buy the car, for the wrong reasons.

Guess that was my original point......lets hope it stays here - where it belongs.

Derek

[David McKinney]

I agree that the 39 has a more important Australian history, and that it would be best if it could stay in that country.

My comments were a response to suggestions of how the car might be advertised outside Australia

And does a win, two second places and a fourth from eight starts really count as only 'moderate' success?

[Derek Pitt]

and yes David,

I would suggest that for Jim Clark, a win, two second places and a fourth from eight starts does very much count as only 'moderate' success?

Derek

[PS30-SB]

Some images relating to the "...not significant..." part of the car's history:

[bradbury west]

For more information on the history of the DD Lotus 25, R4, Eoin Young's book Jim Clark and his most successful Lotus gives a pretty complete picture, especially of the car as found by DD, and its subsequent restoration, qv the thread on the Selzer R5. It also contains a useful chapter on the Pete Lovely 49, R2.
Roger Lund.

[D-Type]

Could someone please provide a potted history of the 39 - I know it was originally designed for the flat-16 Climax and had the dust/rust cleaned off the chassis and a Cosworth fitted for the 'antipodean' series (is it OK to say that instead of 'Tasman'?). but what is all this about running a Repco engine in the Japanese GP?

[David McKinney]

Almost but not quite Duncan
It was equipped with a 2.5 Coventry Climax FPF engine for the (real) Tasman Series in 1966 and was then sold to Australian driver Leo Geoghegan, who ran it first with the FPF, and from 1967 with a 2.5 Repco V8 engine. In this form it won the Japanese GP in 1969 and the Australian Gold Star in 1970. From then until 1974 it was run by other drivers in Australian F2 events with a 1600cc Lotus-Ford twincam engine, before being acquired by the late John Dawson-Damer in 1976.

[fines]

I wonder if a certain TNF poster recognises himself...

[hint]first from left, top row[/hint]

[David McKinney]

Possibly, if it's the first one he looks at

And I guess it's the eventual winner heading up the second row

[Ray Bell]

I feel sure that somewhere along the way, due to early problems with the Repco V8, Sheppo reinstalled the FPF for a short time...

There were, actually, comments in RCN over the period about the difficulties they were having making the car work. When I come across some of them again I'll post them.

[BT 35-8]

Ray,

You would be correct that John Sheppard re-installed a very good short stroke FPF after troubles with the Repco, I have a vague feeling the engine came from the speedway fraternity ????

Bryan.

[Ray Bell]

I doubt it, Bryan, but you could well be right...

There was a Climax sold to the Speedway fraternity in those times, but I'd suspect that it was when the Repco V8 made the Climax less desirable in road racing.

No, I think the Geoghegans still had their own Climax and simply reinstalled it for a race or two when they were having problems with the Repco. Like I said, I'll check it out when I'm going through the mags.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
http://www.bonhamsan...php?article=213

Interesting link, V2. Ta vm. Inside the Bonhams site there is a nice study of the front row of the grid at the 1963 Gold Cup. Click... for a quick path to it.

I love these start line pictures, they generally tell so much and in this case, the drivers' eyes say it all. My attention was grabbed by Trevor Taylor apparently peering anxiously into his mirror so I looked up the starting grid at Darren's site an lo! all is clear. Trev's got Black Jack right up his chuff! Richie looks a tad distracted too, but NGH and Jimmy appear to be 100% focussed on the job at hand.

As an aside, Big Lou's in the picture with his camera, mixing with the hoi polloi.

Even further aside, the fellow with his back to Lou has a vaguely 'Gauldesque' appearance. Surely not... GG looks younger than that today!

[Ray Bell]

Leo ran the Climax just one more time... Warwick Farm for the Hordern Trophy...

He qualified third on the grid, but was much slower than Gardner and Bartlett, slower than his own best, I daresay. And he didn't finish, spinning early in the race and retiring two laps later.

Repco then replaced all local owners' engines with new 740 versions, so Leo was back in front of a Repco from the first Australian round of the Tasman and dicing with Courage in the McLaren and Hill in the 49T at Surfers IIRC.

[Macca]

Interesting pics on the '69 Japanese GP programe - the 39 appears to have an early-type Repco 620 rather than the 740 as in all the other pictures I've ever seen of it.

The Bonhams pictures of the 25/33 are from the 1960s and from the 1998 Revival...........presumably the restoration from sea-water damage is just approaching completion?

Paul M

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Vanwall


Interesting link, V2. Ta vm. Inside the Bonhams site there is a nice study of the front row of the grid at the 1963 Gold Cup. Click... for a quick path to it.

I love these start line pictures, they generally tell so much and in this case, the drivers' eyes say it all. My attention was grabbed by Trevor Taylor apparently peering anxiously into his mirror so I looked up the starting grid at Darren's site an lo! all is clear. Trev's got Black Jack right up his chuff! Richie looks a tad distracted too, but NGH and Jimmy appear to be 100% focussed on the job at hand.

As an aside, Big Lou's in the picture with his camera, mixing with the hoi polloi.

Even further aside, the fellow with his back to Lou has a vaguely 'Gauldesque' appearance. Surely not... GG looks younger than that today!

But which head has been photoshopped over Harry the Lurker's?

[Paul Hamilton]

Originally posted by David McKinney

It was equipped with a 2.5 Coventry Climax FPF engine for the (real) Tasman Series in 1966 and was then sold to Australian driver Leo Geoghegan, who ran it first with the FPF, and from 1967 with a 2.5 Repco V8 engine. In this form it won the Japanese GP in 1969 and the Australian Gold Star in 1970. From then until 1974 it was run by other drivers in Australian F2 events with a 1600cc Lotus-Ford twincam engine, before being acquired by the late John Dawson-Damer in 1976. [/B]

David,

By the time of his 1970 Gold Star win Leo had moved on from the 39 and was driving a Lotus 59 powered by a 2 litre Waggott TC4V engine. He still does, however, have very fond memories of the 39.

[David McKinney]

Of course Paul - you're quite right

[Ray Bell]

Of course, I should also have picked up on that one...

It's just so unusual for David to lead us down the garden path! Thanks, Paul.

Also worthy of note is the range of the estimates of the cars' values. The 25 is shown as well into the millions, while the 39 is less than half a million.

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Vanwall


Interesting link, V2. Ta vm. Inside the Bonhams site there is a nice study of the front row of the grid at the 1963 Gold Cup. Click... for a quick path to it.

Photo by Geoffrey Goddard - copyright The GP Library - prints available if fancied...contact yrs trly

DCN

[fines]

Originally posted by Macca
Interesting pics on the '69 Japanese GP programe - the 39 appears to have an early-type Repco 620 rather than the 740 as in all the other pictures I've ever seen of it.

I have RB620 for it in my database, don't recall the source - wasn't even aware there was a 2.5-liter version of the 740!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by fines
I have RB620 for it in my database, don't recall the source - wasn't even aware there was a 2.5-liter version of the 740!

I just knew you didn't make it to the Australian rounds of the '68 Tasman Cup...





...and you don't read the right magazines!

[PS30-SB]

Some more '68 JAF GP pics:

[Ray Bell]

Ah yes... remember the days when they left the wings off on the faster circuits?

Those 'ears' sticking up from the rollover bar are wing mounts, of course... the car actually had a variety of wings, large and small, high and low...

[bradbury west]

[i]Originally posted by Ray Bell
Also worthy of note is the range of the estimates of the cars' values. The 25 is shown as well into the millions, while the 39 is less than half a million. [/B]

This thread
http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1
covers the sale of the ex Ced Selter twice reconstruction of 25. R5 which went last year for over £400k plus auction fee, a total approaching £1/2 million. Allowing an Aus$:£ rate of 2.10:1 the D-D 25 estimates suggest values of £525/850K plus sale commission which, without demeaning the Seltzer car, may be more representative of a 25. It was noted that at the time of the sale of R5 the market was seen as being not buoyant, and other good 1.5ltr cars were struggling to sell for 1/3rd of the price paid for R5.
Less than 2 years ago the Aus$:£ was at 2.4:1 which would reduce the estimates to £450k and £750k so, as ever, it may depend on who is bidding. The 39 looks good value, especially for a collector. How do the other prices compare with the perceived marketplace?
Roger Lund

[Ray Bell]

I think post 18 might give a bit of a clue:

Originally posted by Torston
The most significant thing about the 39 (for overseas buyers), is that the local Moveable Heritage laws would prevent it leaving the country!

I've never heard of this before, but it does give some hope to local collectors, Historic racers and people interested in Australian heritage being maintained. Cars like the Tornado come to mind.

[T54]

I see that the car is fitted with a Hewland HD5, a rare animal nowadays...

[fines]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


I just knew you didn't make it to the Australian rounds of the '68 Tasman Cup...

...and you don't read the right magazines!

How right you are, Ray! But be fair, I was only a toddler back then!;)

[Gary C]

I want the 79 though!!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by fines
How right you are, Ray! But be fair, I was only a toddler back then!

Can we assume, then, that you've now updated your records?

And where do you change the heads again? Exhausts on the outside in '69... inside in '68...

[fines]

Means, RB760 in '69?

Help me a bit here, I've spent more time on Ford four-bangers than Repcos the last twenty months or so!;)

[Ray Bell]

Not a 760... that would be a CAC aluminium block with 4-valve heads (and twin cams)... at least according to the bit of the story I deliberately left around the picture of the two engines in the magazine... and in the photo caption.

But I think there was a '50' series head. There's a thread around here that covers that somewhere I'm sure. Or did I read it in MRA?