282 replies to this topic

[Calorus]

Not sure where to put this, but I think there will be a few people with burgeoning ignore lists who are of a similar opinion...

I left this Board in 2006 simply because the post quality was so horrendously low, save for a few long-suffering stalwarts who - agree or not - were always fairly logical in their opinions.

On sticking my head round the door in the hope that it might be returning to form, I find myself horrified by what I've seen.

Is there any reason the moderators haven't stepped up to address the constant flaming and troll wars? It seems a shame that the best F1 site should be saddled with an increasingly pathetic forum - especially when before it was allied to Autosport, it was the best forum by miles.

[Orin]

I was going to start a similar thread, but then I thought perhaps the admins would think it none of my business to criticise their site. I feel the problem is that the mods tackle the wrong posts, fair enough that they clamp down on the worst personal abuse, but they leave alone other posts which have no intention or merit other than to rile other posters. If a post is made with the sole intention of inflaming the forum, it should be removed - and I'm talking specifically about the mass of posts here which are devoid of anything other than calumny and invective. The problem with leaving these posts is twofold: (1) that the temperature of the whole forum goes up; (2) that they attract a disproportionate number of replies which destroys the thread. I'm sure if this regime were enforced the quality of the forum would increase greatly, though perhaps the solution is unfeasible without a huge increase in moderators.

[alfa1]

Originally posted by Calorus
[BOn sticking my head round the door in the hope that it might be returning to form, I find myself horrified by what I've seen. [/B]

Agreed, especially when the boards own rules prevent the very thing we're worried about. (Flame wars, name calling, trolls etc...). Most days this place is now no better than usenet.

Please let me be a moderator. I'll be banning about 50% of the people here, but the remaining conversations will be very polite, I assure you.

[Sakae]

Well then you (Orin), from all posters most likely the worst offender, stop describing anyone who does not agrree with you "stupid", and we all be better off.

There are several clans on this BB, following one or another driver, and anyone who does not agrees with their point point of view is destined for the unmentionable place. I know it used to be bad when MS raced, but now I think it took turn to worse. It's like BB was taken over by a horde of very opiniated high school students.

[Orin]

MiPe, after the Hungaroring GP you wrote that BMW need a couple of decent drivers, apparently forgetting that they had a 1-2 in Canada and that Kubica was briefly leading the WDC. That's precisely the kind of unreasonable statement likely to lead to a flame war.

[LostProphet]

There's a distinct difference between saying:

"I support driver/team X and I will debate the pros and cons of that with anyone"

and saying

"I support driver/team X. Anybody else is wrong. I hate anybody that isn't who I support. I hate you for not supporting who I support. I actually wish harm on you and your family."


Whilst a lot of us have differences of opinion, there's a LOT more of the latter than the former. It's pretty plain to see when there's sensible discussion going on, and when there's ridiculous trolling.
For example, the discussion about Hamilton's tyre failure. It was fairly obvious that it was caused by debris, as Bridgestone acknowledged, yet there were the inevitable cadre of idiots who used it as an excuse to further denigrate a driver they don't like.

That's fairly obviously poor behaviour, as it would be directed at any driver in a similar situation.


I recognise that running such a huge, busy bulletin board is a big job, but having moderated numerous fora myself in the past, I'm continually shocked at how many users are left to run rampant with ridiculous comments and accusations that are clearly flamebait and nothing more, whilst other - comparatively innocuous threads - are closed down.

[armchair expert]

I've never been a frequent poster, but I read regularly. There are some good people here that are very interesting, even if I disagree with them. But, it is getting more and more difficult these days as many here seem to have the attention span of a gnat. Or perhaps as long as a goldfish. They seem to be unable to recall more than the last race, forgetting it is a long season with many ups and downs. Cars aren't always good at every track, some drivers don't like some tracks and so on. If Team Principals had the same mind set, they would be changing drivers after every practice session!

That notwithstanding, I still think it is worth the effort to look through to find the gems of good info and opinion.

[ViMaMo]

The enlightened and wise talk less, now they hardly talk.

[RSNS]

It is true: the level of certain threads is appalling. There are, I think, two reasons for that.

One is the recent Alonso-Hamilton rivalry. As soon as some remark is made concerning Alonso, all the fans come up to defend their boy. This leads the Hamilton fans to defend their boy in turn and the thread is spoiled for good. And the reciprocal also happens.

The other reason is that there are many new members that are, I think, very young, not very articulate and with no control over their emotions.

Sometimes I think this might be solved by using the ignore list, but I do not like to use it.

The best solution, I think, is not answering these posts and, instead, post something sober. More responsible members will back the sober post and the rest will just shut up.

But I agree I would prefer that the trolls were kept in control. Unless some form of 'censorship' is used, that is probably impossible. Perhaps reporting the offending posts to the moderators is the solution, but that means putting a large load on their shoulders.

[Owen]

Originally posted by RSNS
It is true: the level of certain threads is appalling. There are, I think, two reasons for that.

One is the recent Alonso-Hamilton rivalry. As soon as some remark is made concerning Alonso, all the fans come up to defend their boy. This leads the Hamilton fans to defend their boy in turn and the thread is spoiled for good. And the reciprocal also happens.

Yes, I agree. There are certain 'triggers' which seem to set off these people. Mainly these are die hard driver 'fans' and any so called 'debate' involving Kimi, Alonso or (especially) Hamilton is riddled with unnecessary and hate filled remarks IMO.
I use the word 'fans' in inverted commas because real fans would have more respect for the other drivers than this crew.

[OO7]

Originally posted by Calorus
Not sure where to put this, but I think there will be a few people with burgeoning ignore lists who are of a similar opinion...

I left this Board in 2006 simply because the post quality was so horrendously low, save for a few long-suffering stalwarts who - agree or not - were always fairly logical in their opinions.

On sticking my head round the door in the hope that it might be returning to form, I find myself horrified by what I've seen.

Is there any reason the moderators haven't stepped up to address the constant flaming and troll wars? It seems a shame that the best F1 site should be saddled with an increasingly pathetic forum - especially when before it was allied to Autosport, it was the best forum by miles.

Hi Calorus

I copyed the following from Bira's house rules:

"Flame Baits vs 'Freedom of Speech' . I know that my above statements may lead some to think that this should encompass posters who have repeatedly posted what some here consider 'flame bait'.

I happen to agree - but only to a certain extent.

Drivers and teams are public domain. They are there to be adored and scorned, admired and admonished, revered and questioned constantly. But, there is a fine line between scorning/admonishing/questioning and defaming/wrongly accusing/slandering.

It's not always easy to know where that fine line lies, nor is it easy to always make a unanimously agreed judgement call on whether something falls under what I would constitute as allowable and what I would constitute as not.

It's easy to know what to do when something is - in my view - blatantly illegal or a mere flame-bait. I simply delete it.
It's easy to know what to do when something is - in my view - within the acceptable realm of speaking up. I simply let it exist here, regardless of whether I think it's ridiculous or ludicrous.

But, in a case of doubt, it goes down to your own level of tolerance. Personally, in such cases, I prefer to be lenient and allow these thoughts to be heard.

There is a price for that, though; those who elect to take upon themselves a crusade on a particularly controversial issue should bear in mind that they themselves are bound to be scorned back for their views.

You cannot stand in the city square and tell everyone they are blind fools (and telling all JV fans that he's the worst driver ever, or telling Schumacher fans that he's nothing but a cheater, is exactly that - either way, you are telling those fans that they are blind fools) and expect it to go unnoticed. If you get a tomato in your face, you should also ask yourself if you didn't ask for it.

Having said that, it should be made clear that counterattacking a poster is different to personally insulting someone. Telling someone that his post is ridiculous, or even that he's a liar (if you can found that!) is not the same as telling someone "you are an idiot who should be shot to death". I will tolerate to a large extent the first; I won't tolerate to any extent the second."


I think there are posters on the board who choose to comment in order to provoke others. And while root of their posts may indeed be to cause malice (the post isn't based on fact and is merely focused on slagging of a driver and or team which are objects of scorn to the poster) they haven't actually broken any forum rules. The unfortunate circumstance is that many are choosing to respond to such provocation. It becomes quite clear very early in a thread, that there will be no winners and losers and no change of opinion from either side will transpire.
When it comes to quality control in my opinion feeding trolls is almost as bad as trolling/flamebaiting. Also threads being thrown off topic and devolving into flame wars is a problem, but it is also up to those who want to maintain the original topic to report the issue, as the moderators are not and cannot be omnipresent.

Obi

[Rob]

If the problem is that there is a lack of people moderating then I'm more than willing to help out.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by Orin
MiPe, after the Hungaroring GP you wrote that BMW need a couple of decent drivers, apparently forgetting that they had a 1-2 in Canada and that Kubica was briefly leading the WDC. That's precisely the kind of unreasonable statement likely to lead to a flame war.

I am consistent in my views since March 2008. Canada - fine, but from bird's perspective, while I respect Dr. T' views, I would not extend any contracts for either of his drivers. I am entitled to that point of view without necessity being characterized as stupid by other poster.

Maybe I am watching F1 for far too long, and drivers like Lauda, Fittipaldi, Prost, Senna, M. Schumacher simply spoiled me, and I am now too critical of the current crop, who knows, but drivers in BMW stable do not strike me as "being hungry" enough. There are some others on the grid, mostly in inferior' cars, who are hungry in healthy way, and those should be hired. That's all.

[Frans]

I don't see all that.......

Schumacher sucked, everyone knew that? right?

[Dudley]

^^^ Anyone remember the days where this guy was the worst we had.

Every 2nd poster is Frans without the humour or wit now.

Originally posted by Calorus

I left this Board in 2006 simply because the post quality was so horrendously low, save for a few long-suffering stalwarts who - agree or not - were always fairly logical in their opinions.

On sticking my head round the door in the hope that it might be returning to form, I find myself horrified by what I've seen.

Yep, pretty much.

[HoldenRT]

I enjoy more by avoiding the topics that are silly, get out of hand, aren't posting to try and find the truth but are posting to plunge barbs into the other side (usually McLaren vs Ferarri but sometimes driver vs driver). Slagging off your enemy seems more of a sport here then the sport of racing itself. That combined with the belief that the driver "you" support is some kind of superhero while the other that "they" support is some kind of imposter or fake, it's a deadly combination.

It's true, you can't avoid these topics until you open them but it only takes reading the first 3 or 4 posts to know what's up, and after that you can just click close. I enjoy things alot more doing that. But it does get frustrating when that stuff merges over into the live forums or other neutral grounds where clicking close isn't as simple.

[glorius&victorius]

Originally posted by Calorus
Not sure where to put this, but I think there will be a few people with burgeoning ignore lists who are of a similar opinion...

I left this Board in 2006 simply because the post quality was so horrendously low, save for a few long-suffering stalwarts who - agree or not - were always fairly logical in their opinions.

On sticking my head round the door in the hope that it might be returning to form, I find myself horrified by what I've seen.

Is there any reason the moderators haven't stepped up to address the constant flaming and troll wars? It seems a shame that the best F1 site should be saddled with an increasingly pathetic forum - especially when before it was allied to Autosport, it was the best forum by miles.

to be honest... I think we've sunk very low since you left. You'd be shocked to find us in our current state

[Garagiste]

I think we're simply missing Bira. Didn't always agree with her, but can't deny she ran a tight ship. :

[undersquare]

What's needed is a rule that campaigning is a bannable offence.

[pacwest]

It's Lewis Hamilton's fault.














if you get that, you are a quality poster. If you don't...

[Smudger]

I think that the major fault can actually be seen on this thread - posters who go off-topic in order to continue puerile arguments begun elsewhere. And I use 'puerile' very advisedly.

I agree with the OP. I have not been here long, but I have been - how shall I put it - disappointed by the lack of maturity and objectivity displayed by many posters. I suspect the only answer to that is quite strenuous moderation.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Garagiste
I think we're simply missing Bira. Didn't always agree with her, but can't deny she ran a tight ship. :

While that's true to a degree, I think it's been a deterioration over time. There was plenty of crap back when Bira was around, just look at any of the old Villeneuve threads and some of the Alesi threads before that. The forum that didn't tolerate anything bad was TNF but that's gone as well.

[Garagiste]

True, it wasn't a golden age when there was no garbage, but it has certainly got worse in the past year.
TNF still self-moderates to a remarkable extent IMO.

[TickTickBooom]

Who would you ban, alfa1? Those whose opinion did not tally with yours? There's a word for that.

Seeing as I spend a large amount of my time on this board complaining that nobody debates anymore, I thought I'd make a cup of coffee, light a cigarette and give my two pence worth.

The problem with this board is not the moderators, or the new posters or even the old posters; it is that some people want it run their way. This is a public board, anyone can join, and as such we all have to put up with aspects that we don't particularly like. Sadly some people are simply intolerant, and so we end up in the situation we are now in.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is, on a public message board or anywhere else, allowed to share that opinion with everyone else. The biggest problem here is that many people express their opinion as fact, which I think we all know are two completely different things. The other major problem is that some people here seem to be minded that anyone who doesn't agree with their views is an idiot, or dare I say, a wanker. Anyone who dares to criticize or disagree is drowned out by the huge flood of replies which, instead of causing a lively debate, simply cause the thread to dissolve into flames.

I've spent the past few weeks ardently defending Kimi from accusations ranging from child abuse to just being crap. I've spent most of my life on this board (there were two, when I came back to the board I couldn't remember my log-in details so had to create a new account) ardently defending Jenson. Thankfully, nobody cares about Jenson anymore so I get to pick my arguments more carefully.

I've been watching F1 for over 30 years, I used to regularly go to not only Grand Prix, but also karts, F3, F3000, Formula Ford/BMW/Renault races so I knew who was up-and-coming and likely to be in F1 in a few years. I resent having my knowledge, which some may consider extensive, dismissed out of hand by people who wield the word 'fanboy' like a weapon when in actual fact it is they who are more deserving of the title.

It's a shame, because I know a lot about F1, but I spend too much of my time here arguing basic points to have the energy to post in the threads where my knowledge might be discussed in a more adult way. This, perhaps, is my fault for getting involved in these petty arguments in the first place. But one thing that I hate is injustice, and I can't sit back and let someone say something about someone that I believe to not be true. Hence all the Kimi defence.

However, it is one thing to read someone's comment and reply to it in a measured way, it is another thing entirely when your measured comment then is ignored, and perhaps only one or two aspects of it picked out for ridicule. Before I came into this thread, I was reading another. Apart from some serious smiley abuse (if I were in charge of the board, smilies would be disabled) someone had written a long reply with their analysis of the race. They had obviously put a lot of thought and effort into typing it all out, and what happened? Somebody quoted the whole post and wrote 'Creative Writing 101 is at the end of the corridor'. Whatever happened to picking over a post, posting facts and links and generally having a discussion? It just doesn't happen anymore.

I think I said at some point last night that we can't all share the same opinion because if we did the world would be a very boring place indeed. I think that everyone who posts here needs to acknowledge this fact and also the fact that F1 in general is changing. From what I see, it is more divided than ever, with drivers on the grid who engender emotions and feelings that we are unaccustomed to. It's a totally different environment to 'the good old days' and it's all very well that the more seasoned posters on this board, the elders, as it were, sit in the corner muttering about those days, but perhaps if more of you posted, you could override the influx of 'I'm right and you're a wanker, nur-nur-nur-nurnur!'

I think there's a general lack of F1 knowledge here that makes debate impossible. Nobody knows enough to argue back 'properly' anymore. People only know what they believe, and therein lies the problem.

[noikeee]

http://forums.autosp...threadid=103028

Originally posted by paranoik0
It's always been a bit bad, but over the last couple days it's gone batshit insane.

Just a suggestion: if I was an admin/mod, I'd make stupidity a bannable offence, and get rid of 10 or 15 different people. It really needs a massive clean-up.

It also needs the IPs to be more closely monitored, or banned altogether, because many people have been banned and simply came back with different usernames. Arrow is the most known example, it's just so obvious...

Then again, this is not my board - if you admins/mods are happy with the current state of this, well, there's not much we can do except for accepting it.

[Ricardo F1]

Quite. There's an alarming number of trolls who just change names and post the same shite all the time.

[BMW_F1]

Originally posted by TickTickBooom
. Apart from some serious smiley abuse (if I were in charge of the board, smilies would be disabled) someone had written a long reply with their analysis of the race. They had obviously put a lot of thought and effort into typing it all out, and what happened? Somebody quoted the whole post and wrote 'Creative Writing 101 is at the end of the corridor'. Whatever happened to picking over a post, posting facts and links and generally having a discussion? It just doesn't happen anymore.

I am surprised that you are writing this when in your reply to one of my posts in which I was stating my opinion you wrote this....

"Come down from that high horse before you fall!"

As you said, why didn't you instead proceeded to post facts, links and start an intelligent discussion ... ?

Obviously I did have a different opinion from yours and you are falling a victim of what you preached.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by TickTickBooom
Who would you ban, alfa1? Those whose opinion did not tally with yours? There's a word for that.

Seeing as I spend a large amount of my time on this board complaining that nobody debates anymore, I thought I'd make a cup of coffee, light a cigarette and give my two pence worth.

The problem with this board is not the moderators, or the new posters or even the old posters; it is that some people want it run their way. This is a public board, anyone can join, and as such we all have to put up with aspects that we don't particularly like. Sadly some people are simply intolerant, and so we end up in the situation we are now in.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is, on a public message board or anywhere else, allowed to share that opinion with everyone else. The biggest problem here is that many people express their opinion as fact, which I think we all know are two completely different things. The other major problem is that some people here seem to be minded that anyone who doesn't agree with their views is an idiot, or dare I say, a wanker. Anyone who dares to criticize or disagree is drowned out by the huge flood of replies which, instead of causing a lively debate, simply cause the thread to dissolve into flames.

I've spent the past few weeks ardently defending Kimi from accusations ranging from child abuse to just being crap. I've spent most of my life on this board (there were two, when I came back to the board I couldn't remember my log-in details so had to create a new account) ardently defending Jenson. Thankfully, nobody cares about Jenson anymore so I get to pick my arguments more carefully.

I've been watching F1 for over 30 years, I used to regularly go to not only Grand Prix, but also karts, F3, F3000, Formula Ford/BMW/Renault races so I knew who was up-and-coming and likely to be in F1 in a few years. I resent having my knowledge, which some may consider extensive, dismissed out of hand by people who wield the word 'fanboy' like a weapon when in actual fact it is they who are more deserving of the title.

It's a shame, because I know a lot about F1, but I spend too much of my time here arguing basic points to have the energy to post in the threads where my knowledge might be discussed in a more adult way. This, perhaps, is my fault for getting involved in these petty arguments in the first place. But one thing that I hate is injustice, and I can't sit back and let someone say something about someone that I believe to not be true. Hence all the Kimi defence.

However, it is one thing to read someone's comment and reply to it in a measured way, it is another thing entirely when your measured comment then is ignored, and perhaps only one or two aspects of it picked out for ridicule. Before I came into this thread, I was reading another. Apart from some serious smiley abuse (if I were in charge of the board, smilies would be disabled) someone had written a long reply with their analysis of the race. They had obviously put a lot of thought and effort into typing it all out, and what happened? Somebody quoted the whole post and wrote 'Creative Writing 101 is at the end of the corridor'. Whatever happened to picking over a post, posting facts and links and generally having a discussion? It just doesn't happen anymore.

I think I said at some point last night that we can't all share the same opinion because if we did the world would be a very boring place indeed. I think that everyone who posts here needs to acknowledge this fact and also the fact that F1 in general is changing. From what I see, it is more divided than ever, with drivers on the grid who engender emotions and feelings that we are unaccustomed to. It's a totally different environment to 'the good old days' and it's all very well that the more seasoned posters on this board, the elders, as it were, sit in the corner muttering about those days, but perhaps if more of you posted, you could override the influx of 'I'm right and you're a wanker, nur-nur-nur-nurnur!'

I think there's a general lack of F1 knowledge here that makes debate impossible. Nobody knows enough to argue back 'properly' anymore. People only know what they believe, and therein lies the problem.

Good observation, I must say.

[undersquare]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Quite. There's an alarming number of trolls who just change names and post the same shite all the time.

The trouble is they get a few weeks or months of grace before being banned. Someone arrives, often with a giveaway name, and in the first 3 posts we know what they're like. If they were banned then, they wouldn't bother re-joining with another name.

For me, if someone is here to run a campaign instead of to participate, they should go immediately.

otoelpiloto for example admits he's only here to express his hatred for McLaren, again and again and again, in every thread - why allow that?

[OO7]

Originally posted by TickTickBooom
This, perhaps, is my fault for getting involved in these petty arguments in the first place. But one thing that I hate is injustice, and I can't sit back and let someone say something about someone that I believe to not be true. Hence all the Kimi defence.

Hi TickTickBooom

The problem is you cannot defend Kimi (or which other driver it may be) against a number of posters here. It doesn't matter if the facts agree with you, or your opinion is very well reasoned. There are certain posters who are not interested in the facts or keeping an open mind about different things, they have already made up their minds, aren't interest in your points of view and will not be swayed. You can post facts and well reasoned arguments countering their claims one hundred times over, it will make no difference, so why bother? When it comes to posters like these, considering their extremely blinkered views, I personally regard such opinions as unimportant, as it contributes nothing to the thread and isn't constructive. In the end it doesn't matter to me what they think, as they are for the most part only interested in discrediting others.

Obi

[aditya-now]

Originally posted by Calorus
[i].......It seems a shame that the best F1 site should be saddled with an increasingly pathetic forum - especially when before it was allied to Autosport, it was the best forum by miles.

Calorus, so right.
The best forum, Atlas, plus the best racing magazine worldwide, Autosport, resulting in some of the most pathetic threads on the net.
How come?

Basically Autosport has drawn the hordes to this forum, plus, (no bashing here), the advents of Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton have brought loads of people to motorsport, who will not stay following the sport for decades like we do (in my case since Monaco 1970).

In Germany the advent of Michael Schumacher has resulted in loads of beer drinking "fans" that have not graced the sport before Schuey. Now, although Germany has five drivers in F1 this species of fans is slowly disappearing again.

Note that Nigel Mansell brought in the 80´s a similar species of fans to the sport like Schuey in the 90´s.

I think this is the main reason. Drivers like Nigel Mansell, Michael Schumacher, Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton reach the mass consciousness in a way most other drivers don´t, for whatever reason.

And with the internet providing a meeting place like never before, you have a wonderful place for fan wars...

How sad, how human.

[Andy Donovan]

Originally posted by HoldenRT
I enjoy more by avoiding the topics that are silly, get out of hand, aren't posting to try and find the truth but are posting to plunge barbs into the other side (usually McLaren vs Ferarri but sometimes driver vs driver)... ...It's true, you can't avoid these topics until you open them but it only takes reading the first 3 or 4 posts to know what's up, and after that you can just click close.

I've gone even further down this path, and now more or less avoid opening any threads discussing McLaren, Ferrari or Alonso* as even those that start sensibly degrade rapidly. That's not to say that a discussion about Force India can't go the same way, it's just that the worst excesses of this board seem to occur when the championship protagonists are discussed.

* I mention Alonso in particular as last year's events at McLaren seem to (even now, inexplicably) make him a target for far too many trolls etc.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Andy Donovan
I've gone even further down this path, and now more or less avoid opening any threads discussing McLaren, Ferrari or Alonso* as even those that start sensibly degrade rapidly. That's not to say that a discussion about Force India can't go the same way, it's just that the worst excesses of this board seem to occur when the championship protagonists are discussed.

* I mention Alonso in particular as last year's events at McLaren seem to (even now, inexplicably) make him a target for far too many trolls etc.

Agreed. Also, avoiding the countless speculative threads about "who will" do this or that is a good idea. It's bad enough for people to discuss what is known but when you start arguing over what you predict will happen it all goes to hell pretty quickly.

Also, few threads which go beyond 3 pages are still on topic.

[Perigee]

Getting people to pass a small test to confirm they understand the difference between 'they're', 'there' and 'their', and the difference between 'brakes' and 'breaks' would be a help. 'U' instead of 'you' should result in some kind of amputation.

Anybody who uses the term 'fanboy' as a term of offence is probably worth sticking on your ignore list, as it is clear they are unable to put forward a coherent argument.

What initially attracted me to the Atlas forum was the moderation of troll posts. This does seem to be applied less consistantly now, or perhaps I'm just becoming more jaded in my old age...

[aditya-now]

Originally posted by MiPe
Well then you (Orin), from all posters most likely the worst offender, stop describing anyone who does not agrree with you "stupid ", and we all be better off.

Originally posted by LostProphet
....For example, the discussion about Hamilton's tyre failure. It was fairly obvious that it was caused by debris, as Bridgestone acknowledged, yet there were the inevitable cadre of idiots who used it as an excuse to further denigrate a driver they don't like.

Originally posted by Frans
I don't see all that....... Schumacher sucked , everyone knew that? right?

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Quite. There's an alarming number of trolls who just change names and post the same shite all the time.

On a practical level, having a filter which simply takes out words such as the red colored words above, it would also do a little good in at least keeping the tone civilized. Of course, such a filter list would have to be updated regularly as people come up with new variations or camouflages...

[Wouter]

Originally posted by Garagiste
I think we're simply missing Bira. Didn't always agree with her, but can't deny she ran a tight ship. :

Is Bira gone!? As in, left Autosport/Atlas, or she just doesn't post here anymore (at all)??

[mikedeering]

I blame the drivers as much as anyone. If they stopped all being so crap there would not be so much scope for these arguments.

[noikeee]

Originally posted by aditya-now
On a practical level, having a filter which simply takes out words such as the red colored words above, it would also do a little good in at least keeping the tone civilized. Of course, such a filter list would have to be updated regularly as people come up with new variations or camouflages...

Bad idea. Never worked in any forum ever, never will.

Ban "stupid" and then people just end up writing "s_tupid", "5tup1d", "stu pid", "s.tupid", you get the point.

[Wouter]

Originally posted by mikedeering
I blame the drivers as much as anyone. If they stopped all being so crap there would not be so much scope for these arguments.

True enough, if you read this board long enough you "realise" that every single driver and every single team presently in F1 are crap. There isn't a single good one, all drivers need to be fired and all the teams aren't worthy to be in F1. At least, that seems to be the collective judgement of the board, because a large number of posters tends to concentrate on slagging off the opposition rather than being supportive of their own favourites.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Perigee
Getting people to pass a small test to confirm they understand the difference between 'they're', 'there' and 'their', and the difference between 'brakes' and 'breaks' would be a help. 'U' instead of 'you' should result in some kind of amputation.

'U' I might agree with but in general I'm willing to cut a lot of slack regarding that sort of thing as for many posters English is they're second language. Being a Yank I suppose that applies to me.

























Sorry, I coldn't resist the 'they're'...

[se7en_24]

Originally posted by Garagiste
I think we're simply missing Bira. Didn't always agree with her, but can't deny she ran a tight ship. :

I agree with this 100% (even though she banned me once ). There are a few people around these days that would have been swatted off the board within no time a couple of years ago. The problem also is that these people also drag the level of other posters down as they retaliate, and yes this is something I've been guilty of.

[aditya-now]

Originally posted by paranoik0


Bad idea. Never worked in any forum ever, never will.

Ban "stupid" and then people just end up writing "s_tupid", "5tup1d", "stu pid", "s.tupid", you get the point.

You are right, paranoik, and in a way you are not.

"It never worked in any forum" might be true, but then, was it ever seriously endeavored?

That´s why I mentioned the need to update the ban list, as it seriously discourages people if ****, shite, ,****, sh.t, shyt, shyte, sh,t, fxck, f.ck, etc. is all banned and it never appears in their posts. It would need an hour or so to write the most common terms and their camouflages for the filter, and that would go a long way cleansing the vocabulary.

Again, guarding the IP´s of banned users is surely another measure that should be taken. Like the filter proposed above, it would take some time to work at.

Yet, then again, the benefit would be a much nicer Atlas F1 Forum with exchanging wit, news, backgrounds, links etc. - the one reason why many of us had joined Atlas F1 in the first place...

Originally posted by MPea3


'U' I might agree with but in general I'm willing to cut a lot of slack regarding that sort of thing as for many posters English is they're second language. Being a Yank I suppose that applies to me.

























Sorry, I coldn't resist the 'they're'...

It´s true, being a foreigner to the English tongue (I am an Austrian) makes you prone for certain mistakes...

[SeanValen]

From my experience foruming here from 2001 fall to present day, it's just luck of the draw, I've remembered posts of all sorts of quality, there were posters who I usually disagreed with, but they gave a well thought out critic, sometimes bordering on the creative made up time line of they thought Schumacher did, that's how it all starts.

Because f1 is not so easy to analyse all the time, those who take the sport less seriously, but are quick to comment don't see the details others do, and some just have plain bias for one driver, some will defend whatever because that don't want to let go of opinons they can't change, doesn't stop them from trying.

Generally Schumacher always met the hype associated with his driving, but with his retirement, every other driver hasn't really dominated, so fans are eager to get in quick, enjoy their drivers success, because next week it's either Kimi having a bad gp, or Massa spun out in the wet, or Massa won, and Kimi having issues, or Lewis seeming perfect, then smashing into Kimi, the era after MS so far, has had all things going on, perhaps it was easier when the concentration was focused on Schumacher, one guy to take blame and kudos at the same time, because he won so often, he had most discussions centered on his career, it brought a junkload of people who watched him, some very educated and interesting people, fans or detractors.

You can't choose your talent pool of forumers, there's no interviews and applications to apply for decent forumer here, were just lucky to get any cool ones, the world also is quite different these days, internet was rising at the start of the Schumacher ferrari era, and it peaked towards the end of his era, just so many people out there, can't control so many varying opinons thats going to possibly upset hard core f1 fans from time to time. Try not to take the forums too seriously, its easy to get brainwashed into debates and feel you need to reply again, I've been there, it's a waste of precious time, enjoy the sport, post in threads you like, ignore opinons that may deter you.


Personally I think the forums were helped by Schumi, people either loved talking about him, or loved disliking him and what praises he was given, and you got the most creative made up posts that sort of was amusement entertainment, now things are perhaps too serious, because the rest of the drivers haven't really made their impressions impress a majority like MS. It doesn't help Kimi's Ferrari seasons have been more of a struggle then expected, and he's somehow very quiet and subpar after a bad weekend, when Schumacher made a error or mistake, it was HUGE, HUGE, FORUM world wind, like a army were waiting for him to slip up, it was crazy, that sort of energy no longer exists here.



When Schumacher was winning, it didn't matter much when others messed up, he sort of gave everyone a break from working their brain too hard, and all other drivers were getting praises, notice Alonso was more valued as the quiet rising star, more disliked when he started winning or losing wins at Mac/Mclaren, Kimi impressed everyone at Mclaren, hardly anything bad was said about him.

And the rules kept changing, but now everyone is on rule come down, changing rules doesn't seem as shocking as before, because everyone knows including FIA, that alot of the rules were rubbish they changed.

[Alfisti]

Things are certainly more lenient than they used to be. The biggest problem revlves around mindless driver A versus driver B arguments in threads that have nothing to do with either driver. The blatant flame baiting has been ignored to, which is odd.

[Garagiste]

Originally posted by Wouter

Is Bira gone!? As in, left Autosport/Atlas, or she just doesn't post here anymore (at all)??

No longer Editor - still a consultant apparently and last post was actually just last week which surprised me. Obviously she no longer has time to be the full time "forum mother", which is a shame.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by aditya-now

Basically Autosport has drawn the hordes to this forum, plus, (no bashing here), the advents of Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton have brought loads of people to motorsport, who will not stay following the sport for decades like we do (in my case since Monaco 1970).

We won't know for years. But the British GP was a sell-out in years where there was no likely British winner. In some years at Jerez a suicide bomb attack would have had one casualty.

[Haribo]

I sincerely hope that this thread doesn't get removed. I was thinking of posting in the AtlasF1 part of the forum, or writing a separate e-mail to someone, as the state of the forum yesterday evening was nothing short of shambolic. I did have a rant which got removed with some other posts I believe, but now I've calmed down I may try and put my point across a bit more eloquently...

I really don't know what has happened here. It seems like every single thread eventually boils down to a Hamilton vs Alonso vs Kimi or Ferrari vs McLaren bitchfest. It doesn't matter what the original thread title was, it always seems to end the same way. It's a bit like starting off with one number, adding and multiplying it a few times and ended up with the number you first thought of.

I know the mods are volunteers, and I, for one, appreciate what a difficult job it can be, having moderated a board back in the day, but I think the time has come for more stringent moderation to stop the board turning into a cesspool. Before I came here, I was registered on the ITV-F1 forum which eventually shut down as it got so bad, and this forum is currently at the same level as that one was when I left it for good.

I think that maybe a few things may have to be implemented to make the boards a bit more pleasant in the future:

* Swear filter: My language can be quite colorful at times, but maybe if you swear in a post, it gets automatically removed? This seems to be in effect in the live forum on race weekends and appears to work OK (although there were some troubles with the word cockpit I remember )

* Swifter banning of trolls: How come some posters can post for several weeks before being banned, even though their behaviour is consistently troll-like from the get go? And posters who get banned and re-register get a long lifetime before getting re-banned? Maybe a trial period is needed where if you get a certain number of complaints about a new poster within a certain time-frame, then their posting rights should be revoked?

* 24 hour ban: Sometimes topics get quickly out of hand and emotion takes over. If a regular poster loses the plot, then maybe a 24 hour ban rather would get the message across and allow some of the bile and vitriol to ease off a little

* Driver respect: Anyone deliberately belittling a driver by calling them uncalled for nick-names should be banned.

Autosport is my first call for all things Motorsport, and I genuinely want it to stay that way. I want this forum to be the good-natured discussion area that it once was. Rose-tinted specs? Possibly, but by God it wasn't ever as bad as it is at the moment.

[Two Jags]

I agree with previous posts that a major problem is that banned users (ie., the worst offenders) just keep on re-registering. Banning IPs wouldn't really work as there are plenty of ways to disguise your IP.

One solution that springs to mind might be for all new members to have a probationary 'read-only' period - i.e., they can't post any comments for say the first 6 weeks or 3 months after their initial registration. OK it might sound slightly draconian but it wouldn't hurt the longtime users & I doubt that the regular trouble makers could stand being quiet for that long.

[Wouter]

Originally posted by Garagiste


No longer Editor - still a consultant apparently and last post was actually just last week which surprised me. Obviously she no longer has time to be the full time "forum mother", which is a shame.

Thanks. So, she has more or less been bought out, then? Not too much is left of the old Atlas then, which is a shame (allthough Autosport isn't bad).

[OO7]

Originally posted by Haribo
Before I came here, I was registered on the ITV-F1 forum which eventually shut down as it got so bad, and this forum is currently at the same level as that one was when I left it for good.

Its funny you should say this Haribo. I posted about a week ago (in a thread that had started to deteriorate) that it was starting to remind me of the ITV-F1 forum, I had recognised a name from there also.

Obi