34 replies to this topic

[MS7XWDC]

I believe F1 determines the "track" to be the black area, and that more than 2 wheels over the white line = "off track"


is this correct ?

[Imperial]

This sounds like you may have another question depending on what the answer is...

Anyway, it'll be in the rule book but can't remember where to find it. Check the FIA website.

[Georg_Kuyumji]

I think more then 4 wheels over white line is considered off track. But they dont enforce that rule, asphalt run off areas have become part of the race track on many occasions

[OfficeLinebacker]

What are you getting at?

[peroa]

Originally posted by MS7XWDC
I believe F1 determines the "track" to be the black area, and that more than 2 wheels over the white line = "off track"


is this correct ?

Depends on what they agree in the drivers meeting with Charlie on thursday.

[Bloggsworth]

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
What are you getting at?

At a rough guess, several 100 reasons why Hamilton should have been disqualified for going "Off track"......................... Otherwise, why the picture of the yellow helmeted superstar (That should get the worms out of the woodwork).

[OfficeLinebacker]

But what about Silverstone? Lots of cars cutting corners, running through the grass, the dirt, etc.

I think the relevant rule these days is whether the car can continue under it's own power. I've seen some offs where the car is a good 30m from anything remotely resembling "the black part of the track" yet been allowed to continue.

The main thing, based on observation only, is whether the car is stuck or not.

Maybe the "track" means anything inside the catch fencing: dirt, sand, grass, and landscaping included?

[Peter Perfect]

I'd guess they're deemed to be off-track if they're outside the white lines and have gained an advantage e.g. cutting corners isn't allowed but going off the outside of a corner is.

[MichaelPM]

I would assume 3 or more wheels over the white line would be deemed as off track offically to allow for the use of kurbs. I would also assume it would be relaxed enough to take into consideration what direction the car is going e.g. if it gave an advantage or was a bad mistake.

[fnz]

i remember last Magny Cours gp where lotsa drivers went 4 wheels behind white line at the exit of last chicane before start/finish... Something was said that a car was of that when they had 4 wheels behind the "green" surface or smth.

[Youichi]

I seem to recall the actual rules say something about "gaining an advantage after leaving the prepared surface." bing forbidden, but not soley "leaving the prepared surface"

[MS7XWDC]

Originally posted by Bloggsworth


At a rough guess, several 100 reasons why Hamilton should have been disqualified for going "Off track"......................... Otherwise, why the picture of the yellow helmeted superstar (That should get the worms out of the woodwork).

That is Brazil 2007, knucklehead .... the question has ZERO to do with your conspiracy theories.

we are discussing the issue in the F1 Video Game forum:
http://community.cod...609#post4348609

[Jhope]

I was speaking to a NASCAR official last week about something similar to this. He told me that on proper road courses, being "on track" means having "...at least 2 wheels on the black stuff". They were going to give a penalty to anyone who used the full kerbing to their advantage.

F1 is not the same IMO. 4 examples come to mind:

1 - Variante della Roggia at Monza - Drivers use the FULL kerb stone to their advantage.
2 - Bico de Pato at Interlagos - Same as above
3 - Final Chicane at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - We all know
4 - T1 at the A1 Ring - ALL drivers go WAY over the kerbing and on to the run-off, to the point that I would say it's safe to stand on the track at T1.

[TickTickBooom]

Originally posted by MS7XWDC


That is Brazil 2007, knucklehead .... the question has ZERO to do with your conspiracy theories.

we are discussing the issue in the F1 Video Game forum:
http://community.cod...609#post4348609

Ha! Hahahaha!

PHAIL, Bloggsworth. Go read the post quality thread and come back when you're not seeing conspiracies all around you.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by Georg_Kuyumji
I think more then 4 wheels over white line is considered off track. But they dont enforce that rule, asphalt run off areas have become part of the race track on many occasions

Getting more than 4 wheels off track would certainly be an achievement.

[sa87uk]

i would love them to start seriously enforcing penalties on drivers whom take the piss by going beyond the white lines and gaining an advantage but on the other hand the decisions would be so inconsistant that i dont think it can be justified.

[kelly_mrt]

Originally posted by MS7XWDC


That is Brazil 2007, knucklehead .... the question has ZERO to do with your conspiracy theories.

we are discussing the issue in the F1 Video Game forum:
http://community.cod...609#post4348609

you wouldn't consider a position as forum moderator, would you? please?

[Smudger]

Originally posted by Dudley


Getting more than 4 wheels off track would certainly be an achievement.

Is the Tyrrell P34 back?

[Smudger]

Originally posted by sa87uk
i would love them to start seriously enforcing penalties on drivers whom take the piss by going beyond the white lines and gaining an advantage but on the other hand the decisions would be so inconsistant that i dont think it can be justified.

It's called racing.

[sa87uk]

Originally posted by Smudger


It's called racing.

what is called racing? inconsistent decisions or people gaining an unfair advantage?

[Fatgadget]

Originally posted by Smudger


Is the Tyrrell P34 back?

Or indeed the March

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by Georg_Kuyumji
I think more then 4 wheels over white line is considered off track. But they dont enforce that rule, asphalt run off areas have become part of the race track on many occasions

Yeah. 4 wheels over the edge of whiteline/kerb is considered off track.

You are allowed to go wide with 4 wheels, but not cut a corner I think. Didnt they DQ one of MS's qualifying laps in Magny Cours one year? He cut the exit of one fast chicane before the hairpin in second sector of the track. It must have been 2002 or before when we still had that normal qualifying.

[Smudger]

Originally posted by Fatgadget


Or indeed the March

But never raced, sadly. Williams and Ferrari made 6 wheelers, as well. The Ferrari had 4 wheels on a single axle. Didn't race...

[Smudger]

Originally posted by sa87uk




what is called racing? inconsistent decisions or people gaining an unfair advantage?

Going as fast as you can. Get a grip.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Originally posted by micra_k10

Yeah. 4 wheels over the edge of whiteline/kerb is considered off track.

You are allowed to go wide with 4 wheels, but not cut a corner I think. Didnt they DQ one of MS's qualifying laps in Magny Cours one year? He cut the exit of one fast chicane before the hairpin in second sector of the track. It must have been 2002 or before when we still had that normal qualifying.

You're allowed to cut corners as long as you don't gain an advantage from it. It may have to be clear that it was unintentional or a necessary evasive maneuver. I believe it's even allowed to gain a position as long as you give it right back.

[sa87uk]

Originally posted by Smudger


Going as fast as you can. Get a grip.

i think you need to get a grip m8, if all that mattered was going as fast as possible then why dont drivers just nail it through the nouvelle chicane without making any attempt tackle the chicane, i understand this example is to the extreme but your extremely naive to think that gaining an advantage by going beyond the race track 'is just racing'.

[Smudger]

I think that trying to prove that some driver or other did something wrong so that you can make childish points is just - childish. Gaining an advantage is NOT the same as running off the track.
And don't call me m8 - try to remain liter8.

[sa87uk]

Originally posted by Smudger
I think that trying to prove that some driver or other did something wrong so that you can make childish points is just - childish. Gaining an advantage is NOT the same as running off the track.
And don't call me m8 - try to remain liter8.

I completely agree that gaining an advantage is NOT the same as running off the track which is exactly why i used the phrase 'gaining an advantage' in my original post (which you quoted) mate.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
You're allowed to cut corners as long as you don't gain an advantage from it. It may have to be clear that it was unintentional or a necessary evasive maneuver. I believe it's even allowed to gain a position as long as you give it right back.

I guess in qualifying cutting a corner is always considered an advantage gained, if you improve your time with the lap. But going wide, I dont think it is or need to be penalised. Sometimes it may be faster, but if there is asphalt, feel free to use it.... or even rally cross over gravel... just dont cut the apexes to make the track shorter than it is....

[TT6]

But where's the rule of what is considered as track and what's "on track"?

[LostProphet]

Originally posted by MS7XWDC
I believe F1 determines the "track" to be the black area, and that more than 2 wheels over the white line = "off track"


is this correct ?

Supposedly 4 wheels off the black stuff, Kimi put all four wheels over the 'astroturf' stuff at the exit of the final corner on his quali lap in France, and Martin called it on the commentary. Nothing was done, but Ferrari sent him out for another run, perhaps fearing the same.

[wingwalker]

I think the rule off thumb is that it is not ok to gain advantage by cutting the track, but it is pretty much ok-ish to win some time by keeping higher speed and going too wide where the track allows it (remember Austria?). Also, kerbs are part of the track, so all 4 wheels have to be beyond it.

[Garagiste]

Originally posted by Dudley

Getting more than 4 wheels off track would certainly be an achievement.

Well, although none of them are round, all the cars still have steering "wheels", so technically not that difficult.

[Darth Sidious]

Originally posted by LostProphet


Supposedly 4 wheels off the black stuff, Kimi put all four wheels over the 'astroturf' stuff at the exit of the final corner on his quali lap in France, and Martin called it on the commentary. Nothing was done, but Ferrari sent him out for another run, perhaps fearing the same.

Not just that but I recall Hamilton demonstrating to Martin Brundle how he used the whole of the kerb at the final chicane before the wall of chumpionsin Montreal, all four tyres outside the white line that denoted the boundary, in explanation as to why he was so quick in qualifying.

I have no problem with it. If the car can handle it and the driver can keep control over using the kerb as a launch ramp then fine. You see cars with all four wheels on or over the kerbs all the time, especially in the last turn of a lap, even using grass and gravel when all four wheels leave the 'black stuff' and they don't face penalties.

At a guess I'd say that putting all four wheels beyond the kerb and onto any 'grasscrete' run-off would be frowned upon, but so long as a pair of wheels are on the tarmac or any kerbing that forms the boundary of a turn then what's the problem?

[MarkWRX]

The FIA can observe and the marshalls report incidents. In club racing we call "2 wheels off" only in drivers schools. If a driver goes 4 wheels off and on, we usually call that also, just in case there is dust or dirt thrown or if the suspension takes a beating.

The FIA doesn't seem to offer a lot of detail on the subject however:

30.3 a) During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe the Code

If a driver cuts a corner because he or she was too late on brakes or whatever, it might be worth a call. If they do it again, it is certainly worth a call. If they do it often, they will be spoken to about it.

If they cut a corner and gain a position, they should give it up. In club racing, I can recall several black flags issued when that happened and they did not give up the position.

And curbs can be a factor. In a driver's school race I watched a Mustang hit the inside curb several times. Each time, it was a bit harder as the driver experimented with cutting the corner by bouncing the right front wheel over the curbing.

On the 2nd to last lap, he turned in too early and hit the curb hard, putting the car up on the outside wheels. On the last lap, he did the same, but with greater speed and we all watched as the car went up on two wheels again, drifted to the outside, touched the gravel trap and rolled onto the roof.