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Old Formula Vees - Group V in Australia


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#1601 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 03:43

Such a shame the principals of the business aren't still about there...

Is Damon still hanging on?

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#1602 Jacer

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 07:24

Gladesville Prestige, the inimitable Damon Beck... I had the workshop duties working on those Peugeots you hold so dear Ray. Revamped the 83 then built the 88 there.

Peugeots,you lucky bloke Greg.



#1603 Wirra

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 02:11

Jacer. Quite some time ago you asked for any chassis photos of my Elfin 500 and I only had one poor image to offer. Well, in yet another 'clean up' I've uncovered these, taken in the backyard at Mum's.

 

One of the 4-5 Jack Bono cars - sister car to Mr Mackie's.

 

Pre 'Swagman' sponsorship. OMG 45+ years ago!

 

500%20Chassis%203s_zps4u7oat8v.jpg

 

 

500%20Chassis%202s_zpsae9wh9rb.jpg


Edited by Wirra, 03 July 2016 - 00:47.


#1604 E1pix

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 03:05

Cool Vee, Wirra!

Inversely, I've waited 45 years to run one (or anything beyond a kart, for that matter)

(But at least we live in a Westy and wear a proper Dub cap). ;-)

#1605 GMACKIE

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 06:47

Bye. :wave:



#1606 E1pix

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 08:19

I suddenly wish there was a "Not Like" button. :-(

Hope to see you again, Mr. Mackie. It's really been a pleasure.

#1607 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 12:34

That Elfin features in this clip I found linked from the Roaring Season...



Peter's name gets a mention and everything. Actually, I think Peter put it up on You Tube.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 02 July 2016 - 12:44.


#1608 Jacer

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 04:05

Jacer. Quite some time ago you asked for any chassis photos of my Elfin 500 and I only had one poor image to offer. Well, in yet another 'clean up' I've uncovered these, taken in the backyard at Mum's.

 

One of the 4-5 Jack Bono cars - sister car to Mr Mackie's.

 

Pre 'Swagman' sponsorship. OMG 45+ years ago!

 

500%20Chassis%203s_zps4u7oat8v.jpg

 

 

500%20Chassis%202s_zpsae9wh9rb.jpg

Thanks Peter. Did you put the Stag rear on or was it on there. Noticed the perforated sheet around the cockpit was that in there or did you put it in. Both are Stag type stuff. I notice in the Elfin book there was an updated version of the 500 maybe this was part of the package. Greg Mackie, no news on the recently found Bono car,sister car to yours yet. BTW whats with the nerf bar on the right but not the left, did you only 'lean' on people one way?



#1609 Wirra

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 06:22



Thanks Peter.

 

Did you put the Stag rear on or was it on there. It came with the car as a lightweight body, plus the original heavy 'Bono' coloured bodywork of BS brown with red nose and stripe.

 

Noticed the perforated sheet around the cockpit was that in there or did you put it in. That was there. I don't ever recall thinking it was an add-on, i.e. paint matched the rest of the chassis

 

... BTW whats with the nerf bar on the right but not the left, did you only 'lean' on people one way? To be honest, I have no idea how anything like that would ever happen.

 

 

Christie%20clip%201b_zpsmif1imcn.jpg

 

Vee%20P%20Houston%2011_zpsjfheoenj.jpg


Edited by Wirra, 06 July 2016 - 07:32.


#1610 Jacer

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 03:27

 



Thanks Peter.

 

Did you put the Stag rear on or was it on there. It came with the car as a lightweight body, plus the original heavy 'Bono' coloured bodywork of BS brown with red nose and stripe.

 

Noticed the perforated sheet around the cockpit was that in there or did you put it in. That was there. I don't ever recall thinking it was an add-on, i.e. paint matched the rest of the chassis

 

... BTW whats with the nerf bar on the right but not the left, did you only 'lean' on people one way? To be honest, I have no idea how anything like that would ever happen.

 

 

Christie%20clip%201b_zpsmif1imcn.jpg

 

Vee%20P%20Houston%2011_zpsjfheoenj.jpg

 

Hey Wirra, did you buy it off Bono? apart from the 'Stag' bits it has the roll bar is slightly taller than a couple of the other Bono cars. Was going through some old photos this morning and noticed a photo of a shunt at Catalina, 1968 labelled 'Jack Bono'.  might be it with some upgrades/ repairs.



#1611 Jacer

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 02:16

Hi all, 

Frank Kleinig (jnr) is a bit crook at the moment having had a stroke a week or so back. Below is an email from his son Daniel.

I've just come back from seeing Frank at the hospital.

His initial problem has been a heart condition called Atrial Fibrillation which was causing blood clots to be sent around his body and to his brain. At this stage it looks like his condition is now under control ( with medication) and later in the week the doctors will be starting him on other medication to further help with his condition. There are still risks of more blood clots/ strokes and bleeding on the brain and we won't know for another week what the final outcome will be.                     He has damage to both sides of his brain. He can't talk at the moment and has very minimal movement with his right arm and right leg ( he did move his right fingers in a physio session today) Generally his reactions are very slow but sometimes he seems quite alert and can hear okay.                                                     For the next week he needs plenty of rest and if all goes well with the medications he will start rehabilitation. We know he wont ever be the same ( that might not be such a bad thing cause he still has his cranky face!) but we are hoping he may learn to walk and talk again and have a quality of life.

Kind regards,

Daniel Kleinig.

 

The family hope for a bit of peace whilst all this is going on. Frank cant be contacted obviously so If any of the Vee guys need a dyno or something call me and I'll work it out with Daniel.

DC 0422635339



#1612 LouiseRoy

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 21:48

Sorry to hear about Frank. Hope he gets well soon. 



#1613 Greg McCombie

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 23:13

There would not be a single member of the Formula Vee fraternity past or present who hasn't been touched (sometimes literally 🙂) by Frank. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery.
Our thoughts go to his family too!

#1614 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 00:31

Outside the Vee arena too, Greg...

Frank Jnr has been a regular at a lot of events where his father was a player in the original event being celebrated.

Leyburn, for instance.

I also wish him well, as does Bob Britton, who was among his normal contacts.

#1615 Jacer

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 22:14

an update from Last Thursday from Daniel.

I've just been to see Frank again. He started on blood thinner medication yesterday and today he looks very good.

The difference in him from day to day is quite remarkable.

It was found two days ago that he also had blood clots on his lungs and legs, as well as deep vein thrombosis in his right leg so he still has issues to deal with but I think he may be out of danger now.

He still cant talk and still has very little movement in his right arm and leg but generally he is much stronger and has some colour back in him.

How his mind has been affected we still don't really know, but I can say his stubborn streak is well and truly still alive ( I wish the people at the rehabilitation hospital the best of luck dealing with this!)

If all goes well with the blood thinning process, he will be going to the rehabilitation hospital next Monday. Once he arrives there I think it will be okay for people to go and see him- of course this is up to the hospital staff.

I'm sure he would like some visitors and it will encourage him to talk.

Kind regards,

Daniel Kleinig.

This is an email from last Thursday so I'm not sure if he got to the rehab hospital yesterday or not or even where it is but I'll pass on any info I get. I passed on a few private 'get wells' yesterday to Daniel Via text.



#1616 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 23:18

Can anyone please update us on Frank Jr's condition?

And also, does anyone know anything about how Bob Young is getting along?

#1617 Jacer

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:48

Can anyone please update us on Frank Jr's condition?

And also, does anyone know anything about how Bob Young is getting along?

Frank's back home, has been for around a month. He's getting around with a walking frame and obviously getting a round a bit slower but heading into his 79th year and considering what life has thrown him he's ok. I think he's ok for a call, text is a bit of a struggle.



#1618 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 12:07

Thanks for that, Max was concerned to know about him...

#1619 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 23:50

Because I'm doing the thread on Rennmax I have been going over magazine articles about them...

This is the story RCN carried in December, 1975 when the Mk 2 Vee, now identified as the BN8, when it was first built. Before the 'ears' were pruned off the sides of the tail section,

This is the layout of the story over a page and a half as a thumbnail:

0317fr_RCN1275_Veestory.jpg

Page 1 with most of the story:

0317fr_RCN1275_Veestory_P1.jpg

Page 2 with the detail in the pictures...

0317fr_RCN1275_Veestory_P2.jpg

I recall that these were very keenly sought after when they were put on the market, Britto selling 15 compared to the ten of the Mk 1.

Of course, there are contributors to this thread who raced these cars... their comments on this thread as well as the Rennmax thread are very welcome. And also those who raced against them.

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#1620 Jacer

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 04:06

Chassis 1 in the story is owned by Garry Quartly, Terry's nephew and has been rebuilding it for a few years now after buying it back as a wreck from Qld. The chassis repairs were done by Bob. Terry was the second owner I believe. The last car originally Roger Harris' car is in bits in the Jacer shed after I inherited it from Leigh the previous owner after he lost his battle with cancer.



#1621 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 06:45

Re-reading the story reminded me of Ken Goodwin...

He was pretty much unbeatable and people would copy every change he made to his car. He once turned up at the Farm with very long primaries for his exhausts, winding everywhere around the back of the car. They were chromed and everything.

Sure enough, others did the same thing before he discarded them.

#1622 brucemoxon

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 11:39

Re-reading the story reminded me of Ken Goodwin...

He was pretty much unbeatable and people would copy every change he made to his car. He once turned up at the Farm with very long primaries for his exhausts, winding everywhere around the back of the car. They were chromed and everything.

Sure enough, others did the same thing before he discarded them.

Ken's sense of humour shows through there. 

Clever bloke, but with a great sense of fun.

 

 

 

 

BM



#1623 Jacer

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 01:41

Frank Kleinig told me that he put that car together for Ken. He said there was pretty much  no stone unturned as such in the build with things like the fan and brake drums being balanced! Frank also said Ken was superstitious. He told me the Rennmax badge had a green surround to the name that Frank had to paint black for him because green on a race car was bad luck according to Ken. As an aside Franks been at home for a few months now. He's getting around with the help of a walking frame and visits 'work' where Daniel operates once a week with the hope of eventually doing a day a week of tinkering.



#1624 GMACKIE

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 06:57

I'll bet Frank has already done a few 'mods' , and a wheel alignment on his walking frame...God bless him. :wave:



#1625 Jacer

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 08:45

I'll bet Frank has already done a few 'mods' , and a wheel alignment on his walking frame...God bless him. :wave:

As someone who has been an active person he's having a hard time not being as independent as he was



#1626 brucemoxon

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 13:28

Frank Kleinig told me that he put that car together for Ken. He said there was pretty much  no stone unturned as such in the build with things like the fan and brake drums being balanced! Frank also said Ken was superstitious. He told me the Rennmax badge had a green surround to the name that Frank had to paint black for him because green on a race car was bad luck according to Ken. As an aside Franks been at home for a few months now. He's getting around with the help of a walking frame and visits 'work' where Daniel operates once a week with the hope of eventually doing a day a week of tinkering.

Ken's VERY superstitious. Wouldn't have green insulation on wires either. 

Once, though, he was giving another driver a hand at Warwick Farm. My Dad had laid out the pit signal board and the stop-watches and the like. It was just before practice started. Ken breezed up, looked around and didn't like the spot, insisting they move. They moved amid grumbling. A few minutes later a car spun and planted itself bum-first into that part of the pit counter. On the pit lane side.

 

 

 

BM



#1627 tracken

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:47

For your information, Bob Britain is in Windsor hospital, on the mend, Bob Winley is the man to get in touch with, he has been visiting with Mr Rennmax

Get Better Bobby!



#1628 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 13:28

Actually, Bob Britton has been home for the past two days...

He's feeling pretty bad at the moment with the problem he has, but he's hoping to recover without having to resort to another operation.

#1629 mouserat159

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 04:18

Hi Would anyone please be able to help identify this Formula Vee & the driver?. Photo was taken at the Hume Weir near Albury/Wodonga

Thanks

Mouserat

Hume_Weir_136.jpg

#1630 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 11:52

Sadly we didn't get an answer there...

And many people have been trying for some months to contact Bob Young. Britto told me that everyone has been in touch with him asking if they've heard from him, whether he was out of the country etc.

It turns out, the news coming via Max Stahl, that he's been laid up having a knee replacement and is now back home.

Here's a familiar sight to many reading this, too...

1018fr-MBbernieonpole.jpg

Bernie in the ex-Ken Goodwin car on pole at Warwick Farm, possibly the '71 AGP meeting. That would be Enno Buesselmann fourth on the grid, I don't remember whose car the red Rennmax with the stripe was. I'm sure others here will know some more of the cars.

1018fr-MBbernieonatservo.jpg

An earlier shot, before Bell Stars were in vogue, presumably in the forecourt of International Service Station.

These pics have come through Mark Bisset, the colour one being credited to Industrial Photographics.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 25 October 2018 - 11:53.


#1631 Glenn Moulds

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 12:10

Ray, I think the top photo is the 1970 AGP meeting and the red (or orange?) Rennmax is Alan Tucker in the ex-Bob Young, ex-Damon Beck car. Those three cars match the leading runners in that race (Bernie won of course).



#1632 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 12:56

So where did the second place on the grid man get to in the race?

I can look that up when I get home tomorrow...

#1633 Glenn Moulds

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 21:39

According to the Australian Motoring News report Gerard Murphy in a Mako was second fastest in practice but had a spin during the race and finished 8th. BTW I think the white Elfin on row 3 is probably Keith Poole who finished 6th.



#1634 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 02:49

Greg Mackie has the practice times:

1018fr-GMpracticetimes.jpg

And the race results...

1018fr-GMresultsheet.jpg

And a photo from the Esses, with him leading Enno etc. He's asked that we understand that his rear tyres were knackered so he borrowed a pair of wheels from Enno for the race.

1018fr-GMveesinesses.jpg

Thanks, Greg. Especially, as far as the photo goes, that it reminds us that Gary Campbell loaned his car to Peter Finlay, who lightened the car during the race by removing the nose and drove the wheels off it!




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 26 October 2018 - 02:51.


#1635 GMACKIE

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 06:54

Not sure what Formula Vee is like these days, but back then we were all good mates. When Enno heard about my 'rear tyre problem', he offered his spare rear wheels as a loan.  :up:

 

After that race, Enno was the first to congratulate me...even though I beat him! That is sportsmanship...



#1636 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 07:45

Not sure what Formula Vee is like these days, but back then we were all good mates. When Enno heard about my 'rear tyre problem', he offered his spare rear wheels as a loan.  :up:

 

After that race, Enno was the first to congratulate me...even though I beat him! That is sportsmanship...

You see, when you spend money on tyres you go fast. Or borrow someone  elses better ones!



#1637 Glenn Moulds

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 10:31

Not sure what Formula Vee is like these days, but back then we were all good mates. When Enno heard about my 'rear tyre problem', he offered his spare rear wheels as a loan.  :up:

 

After that race, Enno was the first to congratulate me...even though I beat him! That is sportsmanship...

I think, by and large, there is still that helpful attitude in Vees. Back in 2013 when we last ran at Bathurst I cracked a gearbox in practice and immediately had a couple of competitors pulling the back of my car apart to fit the spare box they had! I just moved things out of the way and took photos.......... :p  Saved my weekend. And I know other people have had similar experiences over the years.

 

BTW Greg, would you happen to have any other results sheets you could share? I am slowly collating as much Vee material as possible (I have all the contemporary magazine reports and quite a few entry lists) but results sheets would be gold.



#1638 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 13:44

Curiously, I recently photographed all of Fred Vogel's Vee results sheets...



#1639 GMACKIE

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 05:49

I think, by and large, there is still that helpful attitude in Vees. Back in 2013 when we last ran at Bathurst I cracked a gearbox in practice and immediately had a couple of competitors pulling the back of my car apart to fit the spare box they had! I just moved things out of the way and took photos.......... :p  Saved my weekend. And I know other people have had similar experiences over the years.

 

BTW Greg, would you happen to have any other results sheets you could share? I am slowly collating as much Vee material as possible (I have all the contemporary magazine reports and quite a few entry lists) but results sheets would be gold.

What I've sent you should keep you amused for a while...  ;)



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#1640 brucemoxon

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 12:32

There will be a few historic Vees running at the Vee Nationals at Eastern Creek on November 3 and 4. 

 

'Old' (sorry, 'Former') Vee drivers would be welcome to come and tell the young blokes what they're doing wrong, I'm sure.

 

 

BM



#1641 GMACKIE

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 18:29

Will John be going, Bruce?



#1642 Terry Walker

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 01:33

Glenn, I don't know how wide you're casting your results net, but if its Australia wide then all the WA F Vee results  there are, are online at terrywalkersplace.com.



#1643 brucemoxon

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 10:06

Will John be going, Bruce?

Not sure. Hope so.

 

I'll give him a prod.

 

 

BM



#1644 Glenn Moulds

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 23:39

Glenn, I don't know how wide you're casting your results net, but if its Australia wide then all the WA F Vee results  there are, are online at terrywalkersplace.com.

Thanks Terry, I have seen your site - what a great resource :clap:  I hope to get to WA FVee info eventually but at the moment I'm focussing on the early years (1965 to about 1984) and then I'll work forward from there. Actually there won't be too much to do for WA as you've covered most of it already :up:



#1645 brucemoxon

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 00:26

Will John be going, Bruce?

 

He said 'maybe'. Any other of you more experienced people going? 

 

If it's too hot he can't go, and he doesn't want to be just wandering up and down the garages on his own - he wants a posse so that they all can get really in the way!

 

And I'll be working (click-click). 

 


BM



#1646 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 17:25

And how did it turn out on that weekend?

Who did make it?

#1647 brucemoxon

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 10:51

Only a few anciens pilotes that I saw; Frank Kleinig, my Dad, Gary Quartly.

 

Mind you, the racing was sensational. The 1600 final was possibly the best race I've ever seen. 

 

 

 

BM



#1648 Jacer

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 03:20

Been a bit quiet here lately but there is some good new to report.

On the 22nd/23rd of February 2020 the NSWFVA in conjunction with Wakefield Park Raceway are holding a 55th birthday of Formula Vee race meeting. We have been allocated 3 spots on the program for 1600 vee's, 1200 vee's including current spec 1200, historic vee and 'classic' vee combined, third spot is for regularity. The term classic we are using for 1200 cars that don't comply with the current 1200 requirements but are log booked sealed cars. For example you may have a car that has been in the garage for 20 years that is too young for historic and to update to current spec may be too costly, we want them on track! Regularity caters not just for people who only want to race the clock but for people who may have vees that may have changed a bit engine wise from original so given all of the above if you have a vee of some sort I'm sure there is a spot for you.

As per normal we have to generate support for the 3 spots hence the reason for the post as Wakefield have given us targets to meet in terms of numbers. If anyone has intentions of competing or knows someone who does email me : david@jacer.com.au and let me know what class, 1600 or 1200, regularity or if anyone wants to cross enter i.e. you race 1200 or 1600 and someone else may want to do regularity in the same car. This will help us keep Wakefield informed  For interests sake one of the first guys to stick his hand up this morning on Facebook was Graham Engel who will be driving John Fab's 1965 Nota in regularity, 

At the 50th meeting at Wakefield in 2015 we had over 60 cars across the 3 spots which made a great parade and class photo, be good to try to beat that, look forward to some responses.