28 replies to this topic

[mariner]

Over on the nostalgia forum there is a nice thread on twin engined racing cars

http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1

It is worth a look for the Mannic special alone ( helcopter engine driving a centrifugal compressor feeding a ford engine etc. etc.)

Traditionally twin engined cars have failed due to engine synchronisation problems as well as the architectural issues like weight. John Cooper had a very serious road accident in a twin mini cooper.

What strikes me is that with modern engine ECU technology maintaining synchronisation ought to be easier now and with suitable torque sensing sensors on the drive shafts would it not bne possible to get rid of complex mechanical links and just rely on the ECU to do all the matching for gear changes and wheelspin control left/right or front/rear.

Is this part of what FADEC does in a multi enigned aircraft?

So four superbike engines ( one per wheel) equals 700 bhp for under 400kg of total engine/gearbox/differential weight.........

[Bill Sherwood]

Originally posted by mariner
Is this part of what FADEC does in a multi enigned aircraft?

No, FADEC just looks after it's own engine - Limits the EGT, RPM, acceleration/deceleration rates, and auto-ignition, etc.

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by mariner


Traditionally twin engined cars have failed due to engine synchronisation problems as well as the architectural issues like weight. John Cooper had a very serious road accident in a twin mini cooper.

So four superbike engines ( one per wheel) equals 700 bhp for under 400kg of total engine/gearbox/differential weight.........

I am investigating this (casualy) now and trying to keep it simple, I am limited by what I can buy and my best option is 2x 120hp 1600cc FWD units. The threads not so old in this forum.

http://forums.autosp...&highlight=twin

John Cooper's Mini had nothing to do with it being a twinny, it broke (or a bolt came out of) a rear suspension link sending the car suddenly out of control.

I think 2 is enough but I like your thinking, wish I knew more about electronics to do it myself but not so hard to find a Chinese nurd around somewhere I think.

[cheapracer]

Ok this is a little different....

http://www.motortren...1046/index.html

http://www.autoblogg...ans-crankshaft/

[desmo]

I found some examples of similar-sounding crankshaftless engines in one of our old oddball engine threads here. I think they were radial aircraft engines but I can't remember who built them.

[Catalina Park]

I posted some photos of Crankless engines a while back, I just can't remember where. Phil Irving was involved with them in his early days.

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I . Phil Irving

That's spelt G-O-D isn't it

[onelung]

Originally posted by desmo
I found some examples of similar-sounding crankshaftless engines in one of our old oddball engine threads here. I think they were radial aircraft engines but I can't remember who built them.

Fairchild-Caminez: not strictly sans crankshaft, but interesting, none the less...

[Bill Sherwood]

Here's a twin-engined burn-out car with a fine pedigree and high engineering standards.

[jstan]

Hmmm..if I remember correctly, one of the US car mags (R&T, C&D)built a twin engine CRX in the late 80's early 90's...doesn't count as a race car, though..

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Bill Sherwood
Here's a twin-engined burn-out car with a fine pedigree and high engineering standards.

In the 1940s there were big Ford trucks and road tractors with twin side-by-side flathead V8s. Used for logging and mountain work etc. Had two clutches and transmissions as well, so they should have been fun to drive.

[robroy]

Not a racing car, but vaguely interesting is Jeeps twin engined thing:






Out of interest, would it be possible to make a four wheel drive car using an average FWD transverse drivetrain, turned through 90 degrees and mid mounted, using some long driveshafts and some modified diffs at the front and back?

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by robroy



Out of interest, would it be possible to make a four wheel drive car using an average FWD transverse drivetrain, turned through 90 degrees and mid mounted, using some long driveshafts and some modified diffs at the front and back?

Robroy, 1 word....

Peugeot205T16GroupBWorldChampionshipwinningrallycar

or

Peugeot205T16ParisDakarwinners

or

Peugeot405T16PikesPeakwinner

Google 'em.

[indigoid]

Monster certainly seems to have had some success with them...

[NRoshier]

Originally posted by cheapracer


Robroy, 1 word....

Peugeot205T16GroupBWorldChampionshipwinningrallycar

or

Peugeot205T16ParisDakarwinners

or

Peugeot405T16PikesPeakwinner

Google 'em.

The 205T16 used a citroen longitudinal transaxle mated to the Pug engine and mounted transversely with the rear diff in a housing that mated to the original box casing and a propshaft running forward...this place the engine directly behind the passenger and gave access to the belts etc on the front of the engine.

[Joe Bosworth]

Why stop at two engines??

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


Regards

[Ray Bell]

There's a rather long thread in TNF about this...

Let's not forget the Chaparral 2F while we're here, though.

[Engineguy]

On eBay... Two flat four engines; Subaru in the front, VW in the rear. Are Subaru transaxle gear ratios identical to those in the VW transaxle? OOPS!


.

[GeorgeTheCar]

there have been many multiple engined cars in drag racing and lakes events in the US

Twin engined and even 4 engined dtop fuel cars as well as Miceky Thompson's 4 engined Pontiac Challenger at Bonneville in addition to THe Summer's Brothers Goldenrod which did hold the LSR briefly

[Engineguy]

Originally posted by GeorgeTheCar
there have been many multiple engined cars in drag racing and lakes events in the US

Twin engined and even 4 engined dtop fuel cars as well as Miceky Thompson's 4 engined Pontiac Challenger at Bonneville in addition to THe Summer's Brothers Goldenrod which did hold the LSR briefly

Briefly? Three decades if you don't count crippled airplanes.

[Slowinfastout]

Rarely post here, but for some reason I had memories of a twin-engine hyundai tiburon, here it is:

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Engineguy
On eBay... Two flat four engines; Subaru in the front, VW in the rear. Are Subaru transaxle gear ratios identical to those in the VW transaxle? OOPS!


.

No and they don't have to be, the drivetrains aren't linked leaving the engines to operate at different RPM.

[gordmac]

http://www.zcars.org...ltima/index.htm
z cars have done a lot with twin engines, they do the twin engined Tiger. I think they originally started with grasstrack cars.

[Engineguy]

Just came across this...

1957 Citroen 2CV Safari 4x4... not a one-off, it was a production vehicle with dual drivetrains.




ENGINES

Two, one at the front and one at the rear
Number of cylinders per engine - 2
Cubic capacity 425 cc per engine
Fiscal power 5 CV


TRANSMISSION

The two clutches are controlled hydraulically
The two gearboxes each with four forward speeds are controlled simultaneously by the same floor mounted gearlever
A lever permitted the rear gearbox to be run in neutral thereby allowing the car to be driven in normal front wheel drive mode
The vehicle can also be driven by the rear engine only.
Front and rear quadruple universal joints are fitted

WHEELS AND TYRES

155 x 380 (155 x 400 on early models)

ELECTRICS

One 6 volt 60 Ah battery
2 dynamos

FUEL TANKS

Two - one per engine, located under front seats


PERFORMANCE

Top speed 100 kph
Fuel consumption with both engines - 9 litres/100 km on tarmac and between 10 and 12 litres/100 km off road




MORE at http://www.citroenet...2cv/2cv-06.html
.

[275 GTB-4]

NSW Hill Climb Championship - Fairbairn Park 2009

the "Twinnie" - Warren Creagh

[Lee Nicolle]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
NSW Hill Climb Championship - Fairbairn Park 2009

the "Twinnie" - Warren Creagh

Looks rather ugly but seems to be quite functional and probably fun [and hairy] to drive.

[gruntguru]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle

Looks rather ugly but seems to be quite functional and probably fun [and hairy] to drive.

Hmmm no steering rack on that rear - front mini subframe - maybe next year. Suggestion - automatic transmissions front and rear - would sound hilarious.

[cheapracer]

I don't know if this is twin W12's or 2 V6's....

http://www.youtube.c...re=channel_page

Look on the rightside for more links of it actually driving, nice job.

[Ray Bell]

Citrően went further still, producing the plastic-bodied Mehari in both single- and twin-engined versions...

I used to have a brochure of the twin-engined one, it showed the car climbing a very steep embankment of loose rocks.