52 replies to this topic

[mariner]

Like probably the majority of the people on the planet ( given the size of China!) I have been watching the Olympics closely. One thing that always interests me is the technology deployed in "amateur " sports. The bows are amazing and though he new swimsiuts look weird they seems to help certain swimmers break records.!

This led me to think about how motorsport might ever get in the Olympics, clearly as it is "mechanically assisted " it starts with a big disadvantge, however if the FIA want to protect the long term future of noisy, Co2 generating motorsport getting it in the Olympics would be one valid strategy.

Maybe there is a place for Karting as an Olympic sport? It meets many of the IOC critieria (large competitor base,national and internaional rules bodies, suitable for male or female participants etc.) The big negative is the technical side, maybe the follwoing might work

1) all engines built by one supplier and sealed.
2) Then delivered to each competitor say 3 hours pre race ( to stop tuning)
3) chassis to one design but adjustemnts free ( no different to the sailing rules really).
4) For the final races ( say qtr finals and on ) four short races per round and engines are swapped between karts between round so as to even it all out. For the medals that would mean every driver gets to use every engine so no possible advantage.

Maybe it is silly or a dream but it sort of hurts to see THE global event of sport with no cars at all.

[MichaelPM]

I agree we need some form of motorsport in there but as far as I can tell the only regulations are restricting the use of performance enhancing drugs. Are the yauhts, ski's, bows, shoes, swim suits, etc. that the other sports use restricted and spec'd?

Countrys without something like an olympic length swimming pool are disadvantaged but no one cares to think they should restrict the length of the pool for the competion.

Nasa helping America's swimmers and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute using Digital Particle Image Velocimetry to help discover and reduce American swimmers from creating wasteful eddies and vortices so why shouldnt Renault, Ferrari, Toyota, McLaren, etc. be allowed to design cars for their countrys Olympic entry?

Could have a 400m, 1600m, GP and endurance. Although time trials like Rallys would be more fitting maybe.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think the olympics should be overwhelmingly about physical prowess, less so on technique and skill. For that reason there should be no motorsport. Or ping pong. Or equestrian. Or sailing. Or air rifle(?!).

[Nathan]

Ross the Olypmics are about sport.

[Terry Walker]

Olympic rules specifically exclude any form of sport using a motor.

[Ross Stonefeld]

They should expand that to outside assistance. No animals, no air, no implements. Only what you were born with. Swimming suits cannot go higher than the belly button, no lower than the kneecap, etc.

[MichaelPM]

They should make a motorsport event or make all athlete's do competitions naked.

Either way I want something interesting to watch ;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

We have a world championship in auto racing at various levels and there are lots of variations of motor sport. We even have a karting world championship. I don't see what benefit joining the Olympics would bring other than not feeling leftout for 2 weeks every 4 years when F1 is already the single most followed annual championship the rest of the time.

[Kalmake]

Let's leave olympics for children's games, there's no mountain climbing there either.;)

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

There is a widespread notion among many sports fans that top-level motor racing drivers are unathletic, at least compared to footballers and the like. Some form of motor sport at the Olympics would be a worthwhile way of countering that misconception.

I would think the use of identical equipment would be important, although look at how many world records have been broken by swimmers using the Speedo LZR Racer.

[DOHC]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I think the olympics should be overwhelmingly about physical prowess, less so on technique and skill. For that reason there should be no motorsport. Or ping pong. Or equestrian. Or sailing. Or air rifle(?!).

No javelin, no push shot, no pole vault, no springboard, no gymnastics, no tennis, no football, and why swimming? Especially synchronized swimming?

I agree that there is an arbitrariness about what is Olympic and what is not, but the fact is that many events rely on technique and skill and not overwhelmingly on physical prowess.

[Bill Sherwood]

Originally posted by mariner
Maybe there is a place for Karting as an Olympic sport? I

No.

[Greg Locock]

What insecurity leads to this suggestion? Why do you need some bunch of bribe-taking blind-eye-turning bureacrats to validate your preferred activity?

[NRoshier]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
What insecurity leads to this suggestion? Why do you need some bunch of bribe-taking blind-eye-turning bureacrats to validate your preferred activity?

Damned right!...motorsport has only the very best sort of highly skilled, browned nosing, bribe-taking blind-eye-turning bend over five prostitutes and tally-ho what bureaucrats available!

Karting in the Olympics...No!
As for air rifle, Ross try it, like all top level sports it is amazingly hard at that level.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I have no doubt it's challenging, but so is surgery.

[cheapracer]

Nah your all missing the one motor sport that should be included that does takes great atheletic's skill's - Trials riding.

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Bill Sherwood


No.

Bill i'm tired of your long winded rubbish, just get to the point will ya!!

[mariner]

In response to Greg's question/challenge I think the answer is along the lines of self protection for motor sport.

I would agree that the IOC and FIA could run a close race on many things including I suspect prostitutes, but you don't get to choose your governing bodies unless you are willing to spend a lifetime in the volunteer community bureucracy and politics. Most racers are not.

The point of karting ( or some other motorsport ) in the Olympics is that with the noise and global warming lobbies ( let alone housing land pressures) so strong motor racing will be under ever increasing threat in years to come.

The excess of F1 makes arguing for government support, sympathy etc. very difficult and to 90% of the non US population F1 IS motor racing. So the point is simply that once inside the Olympic umbrella there would be one more base of support for motor racing as things get tougher on the environment.

I think a parallel is boxing. Many people want it banned , it is arguably brutal. "advanced" countries like Sweden banned pro boxing. However because amateur boxing is an Olympic sport it has survived. Judging by the Uk once there is a prospect of some medals a sport is very popular. I just think geting karting ( as the most widespead and compact form of racing ) into the Olympics would make strategic sense.

[DOHC]

Originally posted by mariner
"advanced" countries like Sweden banned pro boxing.

FYI, that ban was lifted a few years ago. The "advanced" (should that be "absolut"?) country of Sweden lifted the ban when it was discovered that the only other countries banning pro boxing was Norway (ok, that's always acceptable), Cuba and North Korea. :

[Risil]

Originally posted by MichaelPM
They should make a motorsport event or make all athlete's do competitions naked.

Either way I want something interesting to watch ;)

To be fair many of the men's athletics gear leave very little to the imagination. In that regard the oft-repeated, head-on, slow-mo view of Usain Bolt's 100m run was oddly hypnotic.

[NRoshier]

Originally posted by Risil


To be fair many of the men's athletics gear leave very little to the imagination. In that regard the oft-repeated, head-on, slow-mo view of Usain Bolt's 100m run was oddly hypnotic.

you know it is quite obvious that we watch the same event in different ways...

[ray b]

Originally posted by DOHC


FYI, that ban was lifted a few years ago. The "advanced" (should that be "absolut"?) country of Sweden lifted the ban when it was discovered that the only other countries banning pro boxing was Norway (ok, that's always acceptable), Cuba and North Korea. :

cuba ? well they do have gold medal boxers [stevenson]
but no pro sports

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by NRoshier


you know it is quite obvious that we watch the same event in different ways...

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by DOHC


FYI, that ban was lifted a few years ago. The "advanced" (should that be "absolut"?) country of Sweden lifted the ban when it was discovered that the only other countries banning pro boxing was Norway (ok, that's always acceptable), Cuba and North Korea. :

Theres countrys named Norway, Cuba and North Korea? Wow this forum's so educational!

Also against the karts is 2 stroke power.

[Andy Donovan]

I don't see why they shouldn't allow karting. The no-motors rule seems a bit arbitrary considering the technology in cycling and sailing, for example.
It would probably have to be karts rather than single seaters, as getting a host city to build a full circuit is asking a bit much but they could get a kart track into an existing local football stadium etc. I agree you'd probably have to rotate karts and have multiple races, but again that wouldn't be that different to the sailing.
Maybe London could get it in as a demonstration sport, that would make up for us losing the F1 GP by then!

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Andy Donovan
I don't see why they shouldn't allow karting. The no-motors rule seems a bit arbitrary considering the technology in cycling and sailing, for example.

umm those techs don't pump out hydrocarbons nor do they actually propel the boats or cycles, they merely reduce frictions and the like etc.

[Andy Donovan]

Originally posted by cheapracer
umm those techs don't pump out hydrocarbons nor do they actually propel the boats or cycles, they merely reduce frictions and the like etc.

True, but my point is that in terms of the levels of skill and athleticism required sailing and driving aren't that different, so I don't see why the nature of the power source is such a great issue. In both cases you have to read the conditions of the water/track and use them to the maximum, combining that with racecraft to win.

I guess this comes down to a matter of principle. At one end of the spectrum you have people like Ross who are quite purist and just want sports that don't require complicated equipment, and at the other end I don't see why karting should be excluded just because it has a motor. The IOC seems to have (arbitrarily, if you ask me) set a line somewhere in the middle, where some equipment is OK but motors aren't.

edit: just to illustrate the arbitrary nature of where this line falls, whilst I think motorsports should be in I'm dead against the modern swimsuits.

[Ross Stonefeld]

We should, logically, be against various cycling helmets too but ive never known anyone to object.

[desmo]

Cycling helmets? Why?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well it's an aero thing, like a speed suit in the pool. If we should be against one we should have to be against the other? I guess the argument is the helmet is a neccessity, but I guess it doesnt have to be efficient.

[J. Edlund]

There has actually already been motorsports in the olympic games. Yes indeed, motorboat racing was an official sport in the 1908 games, and car racing was an unofficial "demonstration sport" in the 1900 olympic games, then held in Paris.

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by desmo
Cycling helmets? Why?

Also the aero designs are considered by some to be lethal necksnappers too.

http://www.bhsi.org/hurtmemo.htm

[mariner]

cycling sounds like a cross between NASCAR ( drafting) and F1 ( 70 technical staff for 14 riders).

The nice thing aboutthe team GB success at cycling (if you are british and an F1 fan) is that many of today's Uk riders were inspired by one Chris Boardman in 1992 whose revolutionary bike was designed by ... Lotus.

[Wuzak]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
They should expand that to outside assistance. No animals, no air, no implements. Only what you were born with. Swimming suits cannot go higher than the belly button, no lower than the kneecap, etc.

Would make for interesting women's swimming....

There is a story about Dawn Fraser going faster practicing for an event (privately) when she went topless.


The sports that annoy me in the olympics are the ones that rely on judges to award scores. Such as gymnastics, diving, synchronised swimming etc.

About equipment, what about rowing shells? Has their been much advancements since the adoption of composite construction?

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Wuzak




There is a story about Dawn Fraser going faster practicing for an event (privately) when she went topless.


The sports that annoy me in the olympics are the ones that rely on judges to award scores. , diving,

Dawn Fraser naked - urrrrrr, (shudders) thanks for that thought, nightmares for a week now.

I'm not sure why you say that but 1 fact was the Chinese sychronised women divers in 1 event I watched were clearly and badly out of synch with their arms (attested to by the Chinese people watching with me) at the point of leaving the board and longitudually out of line yet got 1st place! - maybe some out of camera range AK47's?

[OfficeLinebacker]

My goodness, another ESPN article that's relevant to these BB--the world's coming to an end?

http://sports.espn.g...ht&lid=tab6pos2

Regarding the olympics:

"While Burton watched in Michigan, the NHRA drag racers were watching in Reading, Pa.; the Andretti family was tuned in in Nazareth, Pa.; the World Rally Car racers were glued to their tubes in Germany; and the Formula One racers were watching from wherever Formula One racers go to hang out and look cool when they aren't racing."

[Terry Walker]

Dawn Fraser merely pointed out, years ago in her racing days, that race times would probably be faster if swimmers were nude. Olympic officials failed to take the idea seriously.

Can't imagine why.

[AdamLarnachJr]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I think the olympics should be overwhelmingly about physical prowess, less so on technique and skill. For that reason there should be no motorsport. Or ping pong. Or equestrian. Or sailing. Or air rifle(?!).

So diving and running have nothing to do with technique and skill? And as far as physical prowess, you have driven a kart right?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I'd keep running but not diving.


Yes I've driven a kart and while your physical fitness can be the differene between winning and losing, how fast you are is down to skill, not your body dimensions.

[Kalmake]

I think they ruined the Olympics by adding the Hoplite race in 520BC. Before that it was all about running naked.

As for the modern games, I'd keep only beachvolley. To appease the traditionalists, naked beachvolley.

[Fat Boy]

Originally posted by Kalmake

As for the modern games, I'd keep only beachvolley. To appease the traditionalists, naked beachvolley.

When they hug, fall on the sand and roll around I.....well, nevermind.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm for anything that can have an absolute winner due to physical prowess. Whether it be running, swimming, fencing, boxing, etc. I'm all for it.

The judged events seem to introduce an element that is too vague.

Cycling should have spec bikes with some open areas to accomodate fit and non-aero helmets. Tires open just so _someone_ can ride on $500 sew ups.

Karting? Sorry, too much room for technical work. Even in Rotax Max the kart and tuning is too important. I just don't think it's Olympic worthy.

[ray b]

GO GREEN

el-trick carts done on the cheap with standard auto batterys and starter motors
short races with battery and motor swaps between the races

[Fat Boy]

Originally posted by ray b
GO GREEN

el-trick carts done on the cheap with standard auto batterys and starter motors
short races with battery and motor swaps between the races

Why, 'cause you can't come up with a way to make it suck more? I can....Big Wheels. Make them ride Big Wheels and just call them karts. Actually, that might be really funny. I might be onto something here.

If you're going to do it, you do it with Formula A's. Having said that, don't do it.

[stuartbrs]

I cant see why Karting couldnt be in the Olympics. Rotax would be perfect.

Great team sport...

[AdamLarnachJr]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I'd keep running but not diving.


Yes I've driven a kart and while your physical fitness can be the differene between winning and losing, how fast you are is down to skill, not your body dimensions.

So a 400lb man in a 150lb kart can be just as fast as a 150lb man in the same kart if they have the similar driving skills?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Errr, that's a question intentionally weighted to get an answer you desire.

How about a 150lb driver vs a 200lb driver in a 3500lb stock car?

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Errr, that's a question intentionally weighted to get an answer you desire.

Ha, I bet you chewed the fat on that answer.

[AdamLarnachJr]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Errr, that's a question intentionally weighted to get an answer you desire.

How about a 150lb driver vs a 200lb driver in a 3500lb stock car?

There is still a weight advantage, albeit minimal; it's still a 1.5% advantage.

[Ross Stonefeld]

But one driver could be much taller, and it not be an issue of fitness. While racing has an element of fitness, the predominant aspect is the skill piloting the vehicle.

[Kemmel]

So drivers would represent their countries and have the same equipment?

That's just A1 GP!