45 replies to this topic

[silicanza]

Cars such as the Lycoming and Edlebrock Special are well known and instantly recognisable but what about those obcure and often forgotten cars. Many of them may be mentioned in Vercoe's book but had no accompanying photos, other well known cars may have morphed later in there racing life into another and in the process becoming less well known. Still more do not even get a mention in the books and have all but been forgotten. Post your photos here and see if any one can recognise them.

To start the ball rolling:





Second photo is of the car on its maiden run with out side panels.
Clues; This car was constructed in 1963 for Formula Junior but never ran, instead competed briefly in NZ National Formula. The car was to be morphed later in life into a car with a different name, this time reasonably well known, and again in a different Formula, What is it?

David? let you know in a couple of days if you haven't picked it.

[Peter Leversedge]

Don't remember it myself as in the photo, looks like it has VW rear hubs and wheels so maybe some one stuck a complete VW transaxle into it. Would not have liked to race it with those swing axles!! Good way to buy flight time

[David McKinney]

I'll let someone else have a go at naming it before I do
But it did race in National Formula trim:

[silicanza]

David, Truly impressive. I will revert with all the specs on the car in a couple of days.

[silicanza]

Here's another one. This time for the South Islanders.



Again a car that started life as very attractive Formula Junior driven by a well known kiwi driver, Moved on to NZ National Formula, Rolled at Takaka Hillclimb 1969, it was rebodied as pictured and continued to race as a National Formula car , before being converted to a Formula Ford, subsequently rebodied again with a GEMCO style body and to end its days as a SCANZ car. Pictured about 1969-70 in Christchurch
You may pick what it was constructed from but this car was so Ugly that even david didn't bother to take a photo of it. Whats its name?

[Skid the Squirrell]

Didnt Mcrae build a twincam car before he went f5000? Is that it?

[thunder427]

If we are talking about Cars built in New Zealands South Island then lets not forget the 'Genius' of Heck Green,its considered that he may have been responsible for developing the first rear mounted engine/gearbox based race car,its thought/discussed that the touring internationals saw it and went back to the UK and developed thier own version,as the saying goes,"that rest is history !!"...somebody must have photo evidence of Heck's amazing 'foresight'...............after all he's a KIWI !!

[maoricar]

Hec Green may well have built the first NZ based rear eng/g/box racing car.

If the definition includes cars that were purpose built for racing, they would possibly number in the hundreds. Especially if one includes purpose-built specials that used an existing body or chassis..viz; one rather hairy FJ Holden, Jag powered and 4 wheel drive using Triumph rear end.....at the front end and a (seemingly) endless supply of Chevrolet coupe bodied hill climb and sprint/short circuit type "specials"
At a time when quite a few farmers had, what amounted to small machine shops, welding gear and the like, just to keep their farm equipment operational, it was a small step to building a racing car out of scraps and left-over pieces.
Of course this was not confined to farmers only, many urban and city dwellers, likewise had access to similar equipment. Some racing cars were downright ugly and (probably) downright dangerous. In fact, the majority of purpose-built/name brand race cars that were imported, ended their days as much modified and re-engineered Kiwi "specials".....a similiar situation existed in Australia , the US and in South America. As the 'factory' parts failed or could no longer be repaired, locally sourced ( and usually either free, or very cheap) parts were substituted.
Most achieved only modest success in terms of results, but I'm sure that ALL gave their owners/builders a sense of accomplishment that few others experience.

A book on these types of vehicles AND their owners/builders would be the ultimate labour of love; a mammoth effort. One would literally need to start at Kaitaia and work soutnward. AND include NZ's ex-pats.

A network of information gatherers and contacts would be essential for any kind of success or comprehensive coverage
The Beggs, Stantons, Watsons, Munros, Greens et al, have all been mentioned in existing publications.

They were the very tip of the iceberg

[Skid the Squirrell]

didnt somebody write a book on nz racers about ten years back?

[maoricar]

Not in THIS context

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Skid the Squirrell
Didnt Mcrae build a twincam car before he went f5000? Is that it?

McRae actually built two twincam cars (plus bits for a third) but they were later - and better-looking - than the ones in the photographs
The first pictures show a car called the Olva-Ford, built and raced by George Hetterscheid around 1964/65. When Formula Vee was introduced in NZ a couple of years later, he apparently used the 1500 as a basis for the first of many FV cars he would build over the next few years

I'm surprised no South Island TNF member has identified the other car, as it was a regular at Ruapuna and Timaru (and even Teretonga) for two or three seasons about 1969/70. Perhaps the photo doesn't show any more (I can't see it)

[silicanza]

The first three photos are of what was called the OLVA
The car was built in 1963 by Roly Oliver in Wanganui.
First photo is of the proud builder, in the car on it's maiden outing.The OLVA was originally designed and built to FJ specs and to hold a Simca 1100 cc motor but as FJ never took off in NZ, the car instead ran with 1340 ford. The car was dated when first built, having a transverse leaf spring front and swing axel rear end, The chassis was so narrow the engine had to sit upright.

the second photo with open sides, has George Hetterscheid behind the wheel. George subsequently purchased the car and converted it to FV by removing the front end and bolting on a VW beam.

Notes from Roly
Car design completed Jan 63
Chassis completed feb 63
All components fitted july 63
Engine installed approx sept 63
Ready to go Oct 63

[David McKinney]

Sorry - I had been told Roly Oliver was the builder, not George H. But when you think you've known something for 44 years it sometimes takes a while for the brain cells to readjust ;)

Do we know where the debut photo was taken? I thought it was Ardmore, but that's unlikely. I don't remember any corrugated iron structures like that at Levin though

[silicanza]

The Wedge shaped car was the Edbury-ford, constructed by Larry bryant and John Edwards from the Valour FJ that Larry rolled at the Takaka hill climb. John and Larry did not have the skills to repair it and the flat panel wedge was the solution.
Below is the car driven ,without engine cover, engine by now 1650cc, at Ruapuna, by Larry in its original guise before it was rolled, the original Lola wheels having been replaced with wide Brabham wheels.
The nose was previously shortened by Jim Boyd when he drove it as he kept knocking the end of the original long nose.



The following article was when the Valour FJ was first constructed 1963 by Trevor Larsen of the Valour Car company. Jim Boyd and Jack Malcolm helped in final assembly. The Valour initially ran in unpainted alloy.



subsequently painted BRG and sold onto Colin Ngan 1964, then to Edwards/Bryant 1965.



Subsequently the car was converted in 1973 to SCANZ, with a Gemco style body, by Mark lamberton, then went to Greg Napper.

Would anybody have a photo of it as a SCANZ car?

[silicanza]

No idea David. I would have thought the Manawatu somewhere?

[David McKinney]

I've had a rethink and believe it might in fact be Levin, from the fence and marker-tyres visible in the background
Perhaps a club sprint, of which there were loads in the day

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by silicanza
Subsequently the car was converted in 1973 to SCANZ, with a Gemco style body, by Mark lamberton, then went to Greg Napper.
Would anybody have a photo of it as a SCANZ car?

I believe it was called the Maral SP1 in its sportscar metamorphosis
But no, I don't have a photo of it

[silicanza]

Yes it was, thanks david, Forgot to add that.
Fifteen after midnight here and having an interesting email conversation with some guy in London over the Lynx. No doubt you know of him. cheers

[thunder427]

while still in the South Island/Christchurch and 'Specials'...Ron Rutherfords 'pretty' RA special with 6cyl. Zephyr power and who can for get ol' #13 Wally Darrell,(I think he callad them AC or ACE Special) Black with white 'nose band',Wally was a real 'Life' character,If your tyres didnt meet the 'Roadworthy' Standard then 'our Wally ,For a FEE $$ would hand grove them to an acceptable standard,those were diferent time's,also I remember, Turrel Turtle worked in England (If I remember correctly!!)and on his return home built a very 'clever' rear engine 'sports car, only to loose his life in accident while driving/testing a Daimler Dart by Christchurchs International Airport,.....then perhaps we should look into the world of 'Mistral' Specials,everybody had one of those...............!!

[David McKinney]

Ron Rutherford's RA Zephyr was of course built originally by Hec Green, though by the time Ron had finished with it, and it had become the 260M Zephyr Special, I suspect there was more Rutherford in it than Green.
Wally Darrell's first ACE Special was also created by Green, though not the other three.
As far as the Mistrals are concerned, they were kitset sportscars rather than specials, though not all used Mistral chassis.

[hiteknz]

Originally posted by David McKinney

I believe it was called the Maral SP1 in its sportscar metamorphosis
But no, I don't have a photo of it

David,
I believe I have a photo of the Maral which I will look out,also I agree with you on Levin with the Olva Ford,I have some photos in my Album with the same buildings in the backgroud of Levin
Bob

[silicanza]

Here's another Obscure car. if you read NZ racer recently you would have seen an article about it.



ACE 3's younger but bigger brother, ACE 4. built in the mid sixties, again with Zepher engine with Raymond Mays head.
Chopped up in the 1970's and converted from front engined to rear engined single seater the car was recovered from Nelson and is currently under restoration in CH CH by Bruce Ellwood.

[David McKinney]

I remember the car but don't read NZ Racer
What rear-engined single-seater did it become?

[silicanza]

It got pulled apart but not sure it ever got completed as arear engined car and ran. I saw the rear engined chassi configeration at Bruces before he started restoration. I'll ask bruce.

Does any body els have photos tucked away off it?

[thunder427]

I hope we haven't forgot the Stanton Bros !!.............On the subject of 'Mistral',(the take it 'Home' and build a Sports Car,'Fibreglass' body), the Stantons used a 'Mistral' body ,was it on one of the variations of the "Cropduster" flying kilo car..........might have had a D-Type rear fin ,If the 'brain cells' are to be trusted,I vividly remember standing in a paddock ,on a cold Saturday Morning, about the middle of the "Tram Road" Kilometer timed run watching these "treasure's" run when they were the latest "Creations" !!!, Tram Road timed sprints was out the back of the "Famous' Wigram Air Base, mind you I left Christchurch 1970,so I could be out a mile or two !!.Great Times,Great memories, specially the Picnic lunch, my Mum would pack, with the 'fresh' Egg-n-Bacon pie !!.. Oh I nearly forgot, the BIG bottle of 'Cordial, sometimes "Two' flavours, no Vendors to buy 'Coke' at in those times........But I'VE digressed.........

[David McKinney]

If you think the Stanton brothers' cars are 'obscure' Thunder, I don't know what you'd call famous

[silicanza]

David
Bruce tells me the ACE4 converted to a rear engined car " was only ever tested on the road without a body, and I do not think it had a name, this would have been 1974"

[David McKinney]

Thanks, Nigel
We live and learn

[Peter Leversedge]

ACE 4 Saw it being built then raced against it.

[David McKinney]

You must have raced against ACE III too, Peter?

[silicanza]

Probably another one for you David!

A Wellington car built by Ian McRae around 1959, 1175cc Ford 10, Split beam front axel, Cars named the Badger. (Ian must have liked Wind and the Willows)
It raced at Levin up till 1964 and has just resurfaced. Do you have any history on it?

[David McKinney]

Probably another one for you David!

A Wellington car built by Ian McRae around 1959, 1175cc Ford 10, Split beam front axel, Cars named the Badger. (Ian must have liked Wind and the Willows)
It raced at Levin up till 1964 and has just resurfaced. Do you have any history on it?

I remember it, but not looking like that
Here with constructor Ian Macrae at the helm

It was raced by Phil Deere after Macrae, but I lost track of it after about 1966 or 1967

[Ray Bell]

I was going to post that the body looked to be much later than the period in which it raced...

Yours looks much more like I'd expect, David. Very much like the Centaurs that used to run at Lakeside.

[The Badger]

Thanks for the info on the Badger - as you might notice from my user name - I'm the current owner of the the car - I've owned it since 1986 and had very little info on the car except the car registration papers.
Most of the time it's been sitting in the garage and not been looked at - now I've a bit of spare time and want to refurbish it and get it back on the race track.
If any one has any further knowledge it would be really great to get more info - One of it's previous owners was Jim Boyd Motors (whether Jim Boyd raced it I don't know). It has a set of Cooper Magnesium rims which indicates to me it was probably raced for a while after Phil Deere.

Thanks in advance for any feedback

[David McKinney]

I'd be surprised if Jim Boyd raced it - a bit beneath him by then
I probably saw just about every event Ian Macrae and Phil Deere did with it, and have a few more photos
PM me if you want anything else

[bradbury west]

Yours looks much more like I'd expect, David. Very much like the Centaurs that used to run at Lakeside.

What a lovely profile, and very much like Len Terry's Terrier of that era .
Roger Lund

[wenoopy]

I'd be surprised if Jim Boyd raced it - a bit beneath him by then
I probably saw just about every event Ian Macrae and Phil Deere did with it, and have a few more photos
PM me if you want anything else

Branching off slightly from the thread, would Phil Deere be the "?Phil Teale?" I have pencilled in as the driver of Lionel Bulcraig's Cooper 1750 cc in my programme for the Auckland CC Pukekohe meeting of 11 December 1965. He trailed the field in 14th place in the 4 lap prelim, didn't make the start of the main race, but ran in a later handicap. Neither name has stayed in my memory over the intervening 50-odd years. Or was it someone else altogether?

[David McKinney]

Possible, I suppose, though I haven't heard of such an adventure
"Teale" is also fairly close to Teagle...

[silicanza]

Hi Badger, welcome to TNF. Had Friday drinks with Norm H and others at Mac's garage tonight. Norm has photos of the badger, from the original builder but had lost track of him. Is Ian McRae still with us? Norms going to pass them onto me to send to you to pass on. Will post them on TNF on the way through.

Hatrat and I got to rummage through Jim Boyds photo collection a couple of months back. Plenty of photos of the cars he raced but but no photos of the Badger, so doubtful he raced the car.

Very Nice looking car though. Worth trying to rebuild with the original body???

[geebeenz]

We musn't also forget that Jim Boyd was a Car Dealer as well as a racer. My 1934 Austin Nippy has A.J.Roycroft on the ownership papers but I am sure Ron's father never raced it. He was another Racer Car Dealer. I have read a lot of Jim Boyds history and there are no Badgers mentioned.

[hatrat]

Talking of Jim Boyd ..................

[David McKinney]

For some reason I missed this one till now

Jim Boyd in the HWM - but is it from practice for the famous Wet Wigram of 1961?

[Patrick Fletcher]

Could be David, maybe the Standard in the background is the car that Frank Shuter hit with the first Pat Hoare Ferrari.

[David McKinney]

That's what I was thinking...

[hatrat]

and the spin continued .......

[Peter Leversedge]

If I remember correctly the Standard that Frank hit was owned by Charlie Dorn ??