30 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

How's this for an arcane query: does anyone have a handy reference to the 1966 Ford GT40 V8 firing order?

DCN

[RTH]

Why, have you got a misfire Doug ?;)


Firing Order: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 ...

Listed for the 4.7/5.0 litre 289/302 GT40 and this seems to be the common order right across the range of Ford V8 engines over a long period of time.

1966 would have been the 427/7 litre engine, I can't see a spec for that but no reason to think it would be different.

[Red Socks]

Originally posted by RTH
Why, have you got a misfire Doug ?;)


Firing Order: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 ...

Listed for the 4.7/5.0 litre 289/302 GT40 and this seems to be the common order right across the range of Ford V8 engines over a long period of time.

1966 would have been the 427/7 litre engine, I can't see a spec for that but no reason to think it would be different.

Need to check with my man but I am sure that there is another way.

[Red Socks]

Originally posted by Red Socks


Need to check with my man but I am sure that there is another way.

Workshop manual for the Comet,Falcon Fairlane and Mustang 289 and 390 engines and homologation 1214 for the Galaxie gives:--

1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

This order clearly means 7 and 8 are next to one another and not best practice. The order quoted by Richard is I believe the later 351 Windsor order which avoids the 7/8 clash and came out late sixties and is used by the 302 HO engine which is late eightiesand I understand is one of the ''trick'' configurations used in Historic Motor...... no lets call it old looking motor sport

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by RTH
Why, have you got a misfire Doug ?;)

Only in my brain - within the family we have 4, 5 and 6-cylinder cars but not an 8 in sight. The 6 misfires most often...courtesy of Joseph Lucas 1953.

DCN

[RTH]

Now, if you still had that SD1.... !



Ah, yes, there is actually a way that the common cold could be defeated worldwide.


...If you gave it a Lucas part number.... then nobody would be able to get it !

[David Birchall]

Ford V8s have about four different firing orders! As I found out to my intense frustration when installing a Ford 302 in a boat I used to own.

[fbarrett]

Doug:

My friend Bill Murray, the Shelby American Collection director who has rebuilt dozens of engines for Cobras and GT40s, verifies 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 for both the 289 and the 427.

Frank

[Red Socks]

Originally posted by fbarrett
Doug:

My friend Bill Murray, the Shelby American Collection director who has rebuilt dozens of engines for Cobras and GT40s, verifies 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 for both the 289 and the 427.

Frank

Might be a useful tool for Mr Gilbart-Smith to know this!!

[Bloggsworth]

Originally posted by RTH
Ah, yes, there is actually a way that the common cold could be defeated worldwide.


...If you gave it a Lucas part number.... then nobody would be able to get it !

[JB Miltonian]

I can't remember when or why I purchased this, but I have a copy of the "Ford GT 40 SAE Papers", copyright 1979 by the Society of Automotive Engineers. It goes into great detail about the development of the MkII in 1966. Just to re-re-reconfirm, the firing order of the 427 engine is shown as 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by fbarrett
Doug:My friend Bill Murray, the Shelby American Collection director who has rebuilt dozens of engines for Cobras and GT40s, verifies 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 for both the 289 and the 427. Frank

Thank you very much to all respondents here, and Frank - please give Bill my best regards - an absolute star player at past Goodwood Revivals, and very, very much appreciated over here.

Let's now broaden the issue - these are firing orders with 90-degree crankshafts installed, right? Not flat-plane cranks???....

DCN

[fbarrett]

Doug:

Yes, with "normal" 90-degree cranks. I'll have to read up on flat-plane cranks, but I thought they require a much different firing order in any engine.

Will check with Bill again.

Frank

[David Birchall]

Yes Doug, The flat plane cranks run 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8









Apparently it is 1-5-3-7-4-8-2-6

[Joe Bosworth]

Posted by DCN:

"Only in my brain - within the family we have 4, 5 and 6-cylinder cars but not an 8 in sight. The 6 misfires most often...courtesy of Joseph Lucas 1953."


Ahhh, Joe Lucas, The Prince Of Darkness.

I know him well!

Regards

[Joe Bosworth]

Also, for many years.

[Lee Nicolle]

You can fix Lucas electrics. Bin them and replace with Bosch and have reliable motoring everafter!!

Firing order is 15426378 for 221,260, 289, 302 [inc Boss] Windsors, All FE engines inc 427 and 429-460 engines
13726548 for 351 Windsor and Cleveland and M engines

From memory though some Fords are numbered 1357 [like a Chev]on one bank and others are 1234 just to confuse the issue. Some Ford diissys turn clockwise and some anticlock depending on the engine. That depends which side of the cam the dissy is.

I have heard of people changing the firing order on 302W by using 351 cams. I dont know about HO. I have a book that lists the same cams for all 302-5 litre engines though it may be wrong.

[wolf sun]

Don´t you just love TNF...

(Badges are all very well, but wouldn´t customized TNF anoraks be more fitting? Now here´s an idea...)

[Doug Nye]

Indeed - now what about the firing order of the Trossi-Monaco radial? Oh, and as John Gardiner used to say, can anyone produce a one-piece sphere machined all over, internally? He was convinced the Mercedes-Benz machine shop could have done that...if asked. Thanks again fellers...

DCN

[JacnGille]

Next week's question:

What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

[fines]

A Scottish one, or a French one?

[fines]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Oh, and as John Gardiner used to say, can anyone produce a one-piece sphere machined all over, internally? He was convinced the Mercedes-Benz machine shop could have done that...if asked.

Well, if it's BIG enough ;) "Kein Problem!"

[David Birchall]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Indeed - now what about the firing order of the Trossi-Monaco radial?

DCN

"Abstract:
A multicylinder, two-stroke, radial, internal combustion engine employs a multi-blade positive-displacement pump for pressurizing a mixture of air/fuel/lubricant supplied to a plurality of cooperating cylinders. One of the pistons is connected to a master connecting rod which bears a plurality of crank pins respectively connected to the connecting rods of the other piston/cylinder assemblies of the multicylinder engine. The exhaust gases from the plurality of cooperating cylinders are collected in a common annular exhaust manifold and quietly emitted therefrom through a single exhaust port in a downward direction. A multibladed, positive-displacement pump draws an air/fuel/lubricant mixture from a carburetor through an annular volute which promotes fuel evaporation and supplies a pressurized intake flow to the cylinders via a single shared crankcase."


Personally, I would just pick a number.....

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Indeed - now what about the firing order of the Trossi-Monaco radial?

12345678, I would guess. It is a two stroke so each cylinder fires at tdc. It is an eight cylindered radial so....

[fbarrett]

Doug:

A note from Bill Murray:

"I have never heard of any Shelby-related or Ford racing engines from the 1960s being flat-plane except of course the Cosworth DFV. I suppose it is possible prototypes were experimented with but doubtful. Say hi to Doug for me."

Frank

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by fbarrett
Doug:

A note from Bill Murray:

"I have never heard of any Shelby-related or Ford racing engines from the 1960s being flat-plane except of course the Cosworth DFV. I suppose it is possible prototypes were experimented with but doubtful. Say hi to Doug for me."

Frank

God bless Bill - hole in one. ""I have never heard of any Shelby-related or Ford racing engines from the 1960s being flat-plane".

DCN

[RTH]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Indeed - now what about the firing order of the Trossi-Monaco radial?

DCN

That would be this then ?

http://jalopnik.com/...-engine-awesome


Then there is this the Pratt & Whitney Wasp with 56 sparking plugs

http://en.wikipedia...._Whitney_R-4360

[Doug Nye]

I recall a lovely TV documentary on a Canadian (I think) fire-fighting company which operated converted Douglas DC6s, each powered by four 2,400-horsepower Pratt & Whitney radial engines - each with 14 air-cooled cylinders. Upon start-up each one smoked and coughed and spluttered before racketing into frenzied life. Eventually, with all 56 cylinders on song and warming-up, one of the crew grinned at the camera and said "Hear the music? Like a Hell's Angel's funeral!".

DCN

[Tom Smith]

I recall a lovely TV documentary on a Canadian (I think) fire-fighting company which operated converted Douglas DC6s, each powered by four 2,400-horsepower Pratt & Whitney radial engines - each with 14 air-cooled cylinders. Upon start-up each one smoked and coughed and spluttered before racketing into frenzied life. Eventually, with all 56 cylinders on song and warming-up, one of the crew grinned at the camera and said "Hear the music? Like a Hell's Angel's funeral!".

DCN

Howard Huges flying boat was powered by 8 PW 4360s, 224 cylinders. Perhaps a Hells Angel's concert.

Edited by Tom Smith, 08 September 2009 - 04:42.

[aaron]

The GT40 was meant to run the 4.2 Indy engine and this was ultimately retro-fitted to a GT40 by Jim Toensing who did a second GT40 the same spec at the request of one Edsel Ford.
The firing order was as per the fairlane engine it was based upon. 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. Aaron

[Ted Walker]

GT40s with flat plane cranks and strange firing orders !!!!!!!!!!!! surely not Doug. next thing is that someone will make a repro gearbox casing in Carbon Fibre !!!!!!!!!!!!!!