34 replies to this topic

[minigeff]

hi people,

just a quick one.

any idea why the gulf colours are blue with an orange stripe?

just curious.

HEY THIS THREAD IS IN GULF COLOURS!

[GeoffE]

Perhaps it was a case of "think of a color that looks nice with orange".

[Barry Boor]

According to John Wyer, when Gulf came along to sponsor the J. W. Automotive team of GT.40s, the Executive V.P. of Gulf, Grady Davis, said the cars HAD to be powder blue and orange.

At the time, Gulf had recently acquired the Wilshire Oil Company, from California, and their colours were light blue and orange.

Gulf's petrol station colours were dark blue and orange, but that was not considered sufficiently exciting.

All info. from 'The Certain Sound' by John Wyer, courtesy, Roger Clark.

[minigeff]

well they are complimentary colours, i wondered if theres any reason as to why thoughs colours?

i know theres all the international colours, green for england, blue for france etc etc, but wondered if there was any actual reason for blue and orange.

[Barry Boor]

See previous post. Typed while yours was being posted.

[minigeff]

ta baz

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
According to John Wyer, when Gulf came along to sponsor the J. W. Automotive team of GT.40s, the Executive V.P. of Gulf, Grady Davis, said the cars HAD to be powder blue and orange.

For anyone who is interested, from the Gulf Mirage coupés onwards, and possibly earlier with some of the GT40s, all bodywork was made in Poole by FKS Fibreglass, later re-formed as Griffin Design. Earlier cars were polyester/fibreglass, and the later open car bodies were Kevlar/epoxy, but the same pigment was used for both of them, and it's a Llewellyn Rylands item still listed on their website today, 3707 Zenith Blue. I think that lower body sides were mostly painted, but airboxes etc were moulded in 3957 Tangerine. You can also find the genuine McLaren orange on LR's website as well, Rylands still manufacture all these pigments today, and the McLaren colour is 11040 Traffic Yellow. Accept no imitations or substitutes, no matter what dubious shades of bright orange you may see passed off as 'the genuine article' on restored cars.

[Bjorn Kjer]

To me , and I would guess to most others , "Gulf" cars in conjunction with racing is remembered as the light blue with orange "support" . But in 1970 their Mercedes transporters(big and small) were orange with blue support !

[drivers71]

Originally posted by minigeff
well they are complimentary colours, i wondered if theres any reason as to why thoughs colours?

i know theres all the international colours, green for england, blue for france etc etc, but wondered if there was any actual reason for blue and orange.

Good point Geff. Maybe the powder blue and orange colour scheme were the national racing colours of Atlantis - That mythical place somewhere between the USA and Britain? This theory would then link nicely with the heated debate on the origins of the Ford GT thread.

[Barry Boor]

Not trying to be clever, (fat chance!) but are not John Wyer's own words good enough to explain the Gulf livery?

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Not trying to be clever, (fat chance!) but are not John Wyer's own words good enough to explain the Gulf livery?

Yes, and the colours were distinctive and they looked good, what more would you need?

[drivers71]

Originally posted by kayemod


Yes, and the colours were distinctive and they looked good, what more would you need?

Apart from agreeing wholeheartedly with this, I loved the way the orange features of the livery were eventually used individually for otherwise identical cars in the team. Like the orange 'arrows' on the 908s. A lot more attractive and effective than different colour tank tape etc.

[ensign14]

I preferred the dark blue and orange version, as seen on the McLarens in the 1990s. Light blue is a bit school toilettish. Like the BRP seasick.

[doublefourvalve]

Well, actually the first Gulf Gt40 ran in deep dark blue with the orange stripes and Gulf stickers. Daytona and Sebring 67, Grady Davis personal car prepared and ran by JW Automotive.

BTW, does anyone know if at Daytona 67 this car wore Halibrand wheels or the BRM 5 spoke wheels prefered by the Wyer team?

Zé

[minigeff]

anyone know if the 2009 dbr9 works cars will be in the gulf colours? i'm not a huuuuge fan of the gt40, but i must say, it does look the nadgers nadgers when in gulf colours.

dbr9 looks better though.

[Barry Boor]

There are Aston Martins in Gulf colours this year but the blue looks VERY light - much lighter than the GT.40/917 colour.

... like this one.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
There are Aston Martins in Gulf colours this year but the blue looks VERY light - much lighter than the GT.40/917 colour.

... like this one.

No, that's Zenith Blue alright. I'd say that the negative had faded slightly with advancing years, I expect you know the feeling.....

[Bill Wagenblatt]

John Horsman writes in "Racing In The Rain" the colors adopted in 1967 for Gulf Racing are ICI (Imperial Chemical Industries) Light Blue P030-8013 and Marigold Po30-3393

Bill

[Arjan de Roos]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Barry Boor
Gulf's petrol station colours were dark blue and orange, but that was not considered sufficiently exciting.

[/QUOTE]



Still are, even in The Netherlands...


[/B][/QUOTE]


[QUOTE]Originally posted by ensign14
I preferred the dark blue and orange version, as seen on the McLarens in the 1990s. Light blue is a bit school toilettish. Like the BRP seasick. [/QUOTE]

That was also a nice livery. But nowadays.... The Aston was yuch, forget this Porsche or even the Barazi...

[minigeff]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos



That was also a nice livery. But nowadays.... The Aston was yuch, forget this Porsche or even the Barazi...

Oi! Aston.... yuch? Nah, i aint buying that pal. Even when the n400 came out in orange, it was still a pretty car. The only thing i'm not keen on is the lack of the stripe all over the car instead if just on the bonnet.



gorgeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeous!

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Bill Wagenblatt
John Horsman writes in "Racing In The Rain" the colors adopted in 1967 for Gulf Racing are ICI (Imperial Chemical Industries) Light Blue P030-8013 and Marigold Po30-3393

Bill

Don't doubt that Bill, all the GT40s I've seen were moulded in grey or unpigmented GRP, so they would all have been painted, and if that's what John Horsman wrote, they would have been the colours that were used. Later cars, the closed and open Mirages, were moulded in the Zenith Blue I mentioned, probably the closest that could be found in the Rylands stock range to the ICI paint colours, and unpainted bodies would usually have been lighter than painted ones, they were quite keen on weight saving, hence the Kevlar/epoxy used on the later Mirages, some of which were quite flimsy by endurance racing standards. I'm not suggesting that Gulf Racing were ever hard-up, they weren't exactly spendthrifts either. I saw damaged bodywork returned for repair that most teams would have thrown away, repairs were done in the original moulded colours where possible, but probably many were resprayed in the ICI colours as well, to cover DIY repairs and get the last bit of use from them. This is for the Ford powered cars though, I don't know too much about the Porsche era.

[Barry Boor]

Just to put the record straight... I was not saying my photo of the 917 was like the current Aston. I was using my photo as an example of what it should be like.

Faded negative? I wish I HAD the negatives still. That is a Photoshop restored image from a photograph. You should see the original!

[Pedro 917]

Well the stripe was only missing on the roof! Lovely car though

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by minigeff

Oi! Aston.... yuch? Nah, i aint buying that pal.

I was talking about the colour/livery on the Aston, that yuch. This DBR is indeed a fabulous car, however its beauty doesnt come out in pale blue.

[minigeff]

ah ok, i'll let you off this time

i did prefer the aston martin green that the works cars originally appeared in. The 2007 cars are always a favourite. i think the gulf colours are nice, but it'd be better with an orange stripe over the roof.

I did think of a mental idea of having a fade from the gulf colours to the aston racing green colour, like start blue and fade into green towards the rear end, but maybe that's just my mental imagination running away with me.

i think the dbr9 has still some life in it, but it'd be cool to see an rs vantage entered along side them. that little beast could certainly kick some 'vette arse given the power/ weight ratios.

anyways i'm rambling and daydreaming so i'll get some work done.

ta for now,

minigeff

[Manuel B]

Tim Webb's former Mini.

[LotusElise]

Love the Mini!
The "Gulf" DBR9 is very pretty in the flesh, but on that picture, it looks as if the duck-egg blue is metallic. No no noooooooo!
I don't remember the actual car having metallic paintwork though.

[Paul Medici]

Not to go way off the topic here but I feel the DBR9 is one of those very special
racing cars that would look beautiful if she were painted flat grey.
However, and call me old fashioned if you will, she looked her best in traditional
Aston Martin green. I took this photo at the ALMS race at Eklhart Lake in 2006.
Cheers.

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[minigeff]

agreed, gorgeous in any colour!

i keep thinking i'll order my db9 in the gunmetal silver, and then wake up stuck to the matress again.

"To sleep, perchance to dream- ay, there's the rub." - bill shakespeare

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Paul Medici
Not to go way off the topic here but I feel the DBR9 is one of those very special
racing cars that would look beautiful if she were painted flat grey.
However, and call me old fashioned if you will, she looked her best in traditional
Aston Martin green.

I agree. I would go further to say that I don't find the pale blue/orange Gulf colour scheme at all attractive on any car. And I believe I would not be the only one of that opinion if cars so painted had not been successful...

[LotusElise]

The British Racing Green and yellow looks great, too. In that paint scheme, the Aston looked very aggressive, somehow. The Ferrari 512 is also an aggressive-looking machine in that way.

[Barry Boor]

I have to confess to supporting Mr. Beard's view on this one, but I suppose 'iconic' is the word that best sums it up.

I really must find out what that word actually means.

[D-Type]

Barry,
Does your GT40 collection include a Gulf-liveried one? If so, could you please post a photo of the set so we can judge for ourselves.

[Barry Boor]

Sorry Duncan, my cut off point for sports car models is 1966. I can post all the Fords from that race but no Gulfers.

[markpde]

Re. Gulf colours, why does Porsche not restore 917 045, the 1971 Siffert/Bell Longtail in the Le Mans museum, to its original Gulf colours? It was the very first 917 I ever saw, in the museum at Le Mans in 1977 (I was too young to see them race), and until recently I naturally assumed it was the Elford/Larrousse Martini car - 042, as it is presented.

However, the real 042 is in the Porsche museum, in its correct Martini colours, albeit not quite accurate (the lower nose should be dark blue, not silver, and it's missing its front grille). 042 was the white and red Elford/Ahrens Porsche Salzburg car in 1970, and featured in the 'Le Mans' movie; it was then re-bodied and re-liveried for 1971.

If you were to scrutinise it closely, the 917 in the Le Mans museum, 045, has a cockpit roof outlet, only featured on the Gulf Wyer cars, and larger circular intakes to either side of the frontal nose intakes than the real Martini car. I figured that out for myself, then found another thread on here that confirmed its true identity:

http://forums.autosp...Porsche 917 042

045 is arguably the most original of the three surviving 917 Longtails, 043 (the 1971 Rodriguez/Oliver Gulf car, which also appeared in white at the Le Mans trials in April of that year) having been rebuilt and rebodied, somewhat questionably, in its original 1970 'Hippy car' (Kauhsen/Larrousse, finished 2nd at Le Mans) guise.

I appreciate the time and effort it must have taken to replicate the Martini livery, but surely it's about time Porsche returned 045 to its true colours.