22 replies to this topic

[wolf sun]

For private research I´m looking for aerial pictures of Zandvoort circuit prior to the big rebuild in 1989. Of particular interest to me is the `back section´ from Scheivlak to Bos Uit. Pictures of the reconstruction of the Panoramabocht in the early seventies would also be much appreciated.
Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance.

[wolf sun]

I know bumping one´s own thread is bad manners, and apologies for that, but I thought I´d give it one more try before giving up...

[Rob Semmeling]

No aerials I'm afraid, but perhaps you'll find something of interest here:

http://groups.msn.co.../_whatsnew.msnw (klik on 'afbeeldingen', then search for Zandvoort)
http://sudschleife.8...m/zandvoort.htm

I can't recall ever seeing an aerial photo circa 1970s-1980s.

[wolf sun]

Thanks Rob, I´d already seen the pictures on circuitsofthepast, and those on your excellent site. Pictures of Zandvoort´s back section are hard to come by, and I was hoping that some more might be dug out.

[HEMEYLA]

Aerial overview from the old Zandvoort circuit:

[Rob Semmeling]

The book "30 Jaar Circuit Zandvoort" documents a lap around the circuit via some photos taken on-track. There's also an interesting map that indicates the radius of every turn.

If this is of interest to you, drop me a PM with your e-mail and I'll scan & send the two pages.

[wolf sun]

Thanks HEMEYLA - that picture looks like it is from the same source as the one on circuitsofthepast. Maybe they did a whole series of aerial shots?! Are these from old postcards?

@Rob: Thank you, too - I´ve sent you a PM!

[HEMEYLA]

The picture is from this website.

[wolf sun]

Interesting page - and not only for the sections on the circuit(s). My first visit had been back in the eighties. I was there again for one of the F3 Masters, in ´99 I think, and the whole area had changed beyond recognition. A lot of Zandvoort´s unique charm has been lost, sadly...well, for me at least.

[Arjan de Roos]

Wolf Sun,

I had to dig out some of my mags, but I found a nice aerial of the Zandvoort track. It comes from the long-gone magazine Autorensport 1979 Dutch GP preview. The picture is likely taken the year before during the 1978 GP (a record number of spectators showed up). At least the track is 1978 version. So this is the 'old' Zandvoort seen from the north (-east).

From the main straight through Tarzan-Gerlach-Hugenholtz-Hunzerug to Scheivlak (closest to the camera). After Scheivlak the Marlboro corner has yet to be installed. The Panorama corner is next after that, this is the large righthander chicane. From Panorama it is through Bos-uit on to the main straight. Nowaday that last part is no longer there. Where Marlboro corner was, we now have the Masters corner (Marlboro Masters, got it?). However this is a right hander.

The new track connects to the old somewhere halfway the main straight.





("Hopefully this does not start up any 1973 GP discussion.."

[bschenker]

Sorry, may by you have one from today to sea better the change.

Thank you!

[Rob Semmeling]

That's a wonderful photo, thanks for posting it Arjan! For current aerials, check out the official site of Circuit Park Zandvoort:

http://www.circuit-zandvoort.nl

Then click: 'action' > 'fotoboek' > 'volgend scherm' (you'll find the aerials on page 4 of 4).


Incidentally, it is not often noted a temporary "chicane" was installed between Scheivlak and Tunnel Oost for the 1979 Dutch Grand Prix.

This "chicane" was actually not so much a real chicane, but rather a very peculiar reprofiling of the existing kink. It had been requested by the drivers as speeds in the back section were becoming hazardous, reportedly around 280 km/h. I believe Jody Scheckter in particular was instrumental, as the book "35 Jaar Circuit Zandvoort" calls it the "Scheckter Chicane".

Permission for the works was only granted by local authorities at the very last moment, and apparently only on the condition the chicane would be removed again after the race. Obviously this never happened, as in the event it was replaced by the Malboro corner - a proper chicane - the following year.

The controversial 1979 chicane was very poorly designed, and pretty much failed to slow down the cars at all. This was the place were Villeneuve lost the lead to Jones after he slid wide, hit the outside curb and spun.

[Phil Rainford]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Don't know if this helps?

Kind regards

Phil

[lil'chris]

Or this featuring Hondenvlak the year before the temporary chicane appeared.

Chris

[wolf sun]

Brilliant photo, Arjan, thanks a lot!

I´d completely forgotten that there were so many ponds inside the circuit.
Comparing the older picture with Arjan´s the difference between the original layout and the later Panoramabocht becomes very apparent, as does the original "Bos" (in and uit) and what was left of it in the seventies.

@ Rob - I´ve got an old issue of french mag "Grand Prix International" which features a short piece on the Scheckter chicane. My French isn´t quite what it should be, but I seem to remember that Scheckter apparently had something to do with the actual design of the eponymous chicane, and that his Grand Prix colleagues were not too impressed with the layout. I will look it up and post it later in the week.

@ Phil - I´ve seen that clip before, and isn´t it an amazing reminder how times have changed, even since the eighties?

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling
Incidentally, it is not often noted a temporary "chicane" was installed between Scheivlak and Tunnel Oost for the 1979 Dutch Grand Prix.

This is greatly documented by Bob de Jong in his 1979 Dutch GP documentary (in dutch) for Veronica TV. Also the failure of the chicane. I nearly thought the Marlboro chicane was there from 1979, but it is indeed 1980.

[lil'chris]

The temporary chicane used in 1979 can be seen at around the 1 min 50 mark

[wewantourdarbyback]

modern (small)
http://www.travelpla...oort-aerial.jpg

old onto new
http://www.orangehat...HTFOTO48_73.jpg

hope those help

[Rob Semmeling]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
This is greatly documented by Bob de Jong in his 1979 Dutch GP documentary (in dutch) for Veronica TV.

That's the documentary that was broadcasted some weeks ago, right? Apart from the bits about the chicane and the tour around the circuit with Jan Lammers, it really disappointed me. Heck, it took 2.5 hours before the documentary got to the race itself!


Thanks for those YouTube links, both videos really show what a wonderful circuit Zandvoort used to be. It had such a great flow to it, even with the later Malboro chicane.

[wolf sun]

Rob´s 1999 pictures of the Marlboro Chicane clearly show a strip of abandoned tarmac belonging to the original Hondenvlak.

However, it seems that when Panoramabocht was built, the original layout of that section was completely destroyed. I have vague recollections of noticing some extra strips of tarmac when I did a tour of the circuit back in `88, but I might be wrong. In Arjan´s picture it looks like there might be some leftovers shortly behind the earth bank, but I´m not sure. Does anyone know more about this?

(Admittedly this is for circuit nutters only...;) )

[wolf sun]

Found the answer myself, it seems my recollections from twenty years ago are not that bad after all:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

At 4:41 and 5:01 there are glimpses of the original Panoramabocht layout, right behind the earth-/sandbank.

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling
That's the documentary that was broadcasted some weeks ago, right? Apart from the bits about the chicane and the tour around the circuit with Jan Lammers, it really disappointed me. Heck, it took 2.5 hours before the documentary got to the race itself!

Also in 1980, as well as a re-run somewhere early nineties. It isn't that bad though ?: many interviews (Lauda, Villeneuve, Frank W, Eccie etc) and shots in the 1979 F1 paddock.

Originally posted by wolf sun
the original Panoramabocht layout, right behind the earth-/sandbank.

That part of the track did not have a name before the chicane constructed 1973. Or maybe Stalenveld.
From Scheivlak full throttle you went over Tunnel-Oost to Bos-Uit.

Thanks to all for posting. Especially the You Tubes. I recall standing in the paddock in 1983 and seeing Alain Prost wizz through Tarzan with a camera mounted on his car (what a construction of beams!). It was a crisp, fresh, sunny friday morning with great sounds and smells emerging from the track.

[wolf sun]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos

That part of the track did not have a name before the chicane constructed 1973. Or maybe Stalenveld.

Wasn´t it called "Bos-In" by some in the early days?

There´s more on youtube btw, some great footage from the fifties as well. Copyright is another matter, of course...