287 replies to this topic

[Wouter]

Originally posted by Pep


Hamilton was also slower than Alonso, Heidfeld and Massa in his third stint. Probably because he overdrove his car in his first laps with wet tyres. It happened the same in China.

Or because of tyre characteristics. Massa also slowed down at the end (had to let Heidfeld go, and got Hamilton and Webber closing in again). Possibly, the intermediates have a tendency to go "off" after a few laps, and possibly to come back "on" again after that.

[inca_roads]

Originally posted by Pep


Hamilton was also slower than Alonso, Heidfeld and Massa in his third stint. Probably because he overdrove his car in his first laps with wet tyres. It happened the same in China.

No doubt, I don't dispute that. But you don't judge the race solely on 1 stint. As a fan, I really believe he did one of his greatest drives today, that's all. And just because his deserved result was lost due to some bad luck, it doesn't change that.

[Cenotaph]

Originally posted by f1rules


you give hamilton and massa the same score

yes, and i explained why, didnt i? you might dont agree but hey, ppl cant agree all the time, right?

[f1rules]

Originally posted by checkonetwo
schumacher said in an rtl interview right after the race that their car is very difficult to keep on track in wet conditions. he didn't say "hard to handle", he said "difficult ot keep on the black stuff". so that should count for something regarding the ferrari handling.

the race was very interesting and entertaining, heartfelt congratulations to seb vettel who is not only a brilliant driver, but also a genuine character. i didn't think kova was so bad, but for shure hamilton looked much racier for the better part of the race, at least until his tyres were gone. not too shure about his antics though, imo his moves on glock, alonso and webber were dangerous and deserved a penalty. he's a fantastic driver, but he's also an arrogant maniac and i don't like him.

he resembles me off a famous german ;)

[Spunout]

Originally posted by abc


Actually

Massa 5 > 6
Kimi 13 > 9

IMO Kimi performed better in the race (considering traffic, etc). But Massa performed better in qualifying, gaining an advantage Kimi failed to overcome in the race. Therefore...over the entire weekend, Massa better.

Just my two cents.

[stormshadow]

Originally posted by Pep


Hamilton was also slower than Alonso, Heidfeld and Massa in his third stint. Probably because he overdrove his car in his first laps with wet tyres. It happened the same in China.

The first 2 stints was enough to give his fans another orgasm. So the 3rd stint they conveniently forget.

[K-One]

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo
Vettel was Fantastic
Kova is a loser
Hams was fantastic
Massa was OK
Raikks sucked again.

I am happy for the ex-Minardi personnel.
I met some of them 10 years ago, great people, and even if the car is not Minardi anymore, corporations are still made of people.

Disagree with Massa, he lost 1 place after start, otherwise agreed.

Ferrari is dismal with wet weather. Will be interesting to see if Toro Rosso keeps up the performance in Singapore too

[jesee]

Originally posted by f1rules


you give hamilton and massa the same score

He is not the teacher. He is entitled to give him any score

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by Anomander


To be honest, in the rain, I think Massa did okay, the best he was going to do in these conditions, he never span once, he and ferrari are improving in the wet.

He did very well considering his strategy and track position. For people who were afraid of a Silverstone repeat, or even of him tip-toeing his way like Spa, it turned out much much better.

[kodandaram]

Vettel is arguably the best driver in F1 out there - yes thats from a Lewis Hamilton fan


- and I think Hamilton is trying his luck a bit too much with the stewards - he overstepped the line more than once today - it was dangerous driving from him today.

[K-One]

Originally posted by kodandaram
Vettel is arguably the best driver in F1 out there - yes thats from a Lewis Hamilton fan


- and I think Hamilton is trying his luck a bit too much with the stewards - he overstepped the line more than once today - it was dangerous driving from him today.

Not take anything away from Vettel, but he started P1 and apparently their car is quite good nowadays. We haven't really seen him in many situations yet to determine that he is the best

[andy walker]

I think people are a bit harsh on Kovy. At the end of the day, he qualified second, and then got a second.

Not his greatest race, but solid for a number 2.

He did better than Massa, out qualified him third qualifying, and scored more points.

point are what matters, NOT qualifying low down then going on a bit of a charge to 7th.

Vettel

[molive]

Originally posted by primer


If you are using this as a build up to slag Fernando's performance, I must say you have chosen the wrong weekend:lol: .

He was quite good all weekend. Look at Nelson P. Jr.

Ok Piquet had a bad quali (but many top drivers also did), but remember he was the last one to make a pitstop, he had what 40 laps worth of fuel. I dont see how this could have worked in his favour, obviously you need a lighter car to pass at Monza.

[Gareth]

Awesome from Vettel. Genuine win. No luck, just quality.

And just an awesome race. Fantastic for F1 fans. That's 3 (IMO) classics in 1 season: Germany, Spa and Italy. With Italy head and shoulders the best.

[lwd]

Congrats to Vettel. Pure class.

[primer]

Originally posted by RSNS
Raikkonen was rather bad. He seemed to me mediocre and to suddenly wake up in the last third of races. This has been frequent this year. Why Ferrari engaged him again I cannot say.

Ferrari must see something in telemetry which makes them think Kimi is going to be of use in future.

[Mila]

did SV nearly lose it on the exit of the Parabolica after the SC pulled in? that was certainly more than a little wiggle from Vittel when he put the power down.

HK was rather po-faced on the podium and during the PC. something is brewing at McLaren, I dare say.

obviously, the Ferraris never looked good over the curbs. I'm sure that they have their reasons, but, given the conditions, I wonder if a softer suspension setting would have been a better option. or, maybe they're simply screwed on the chassis front.

pity about the timing of NR's one planned stop. I don't recall if a switch to inters would have been possible at that point, but, obviously, that extra stop ruined his race.

LH did make things interesting for a while. was it a cruise-and-collect call at the end? or did his McLaren have a problem that prevented a go at FM?

given the conditions, it was odd that so many cars circulated together for such long periods of time. at the finish, fourth place to ninth was covered by less than sixteen seconds. with few spins and few instances of contact, we had some real composed driving.

on the incident front:

LH made his car petty wide a few times. we'll hear something from MW, I imagine.

DC vs. GF: maybe we'll hear from GF; for me, inconclusive at this point.

DC vs. KN: it looked like the Williams man pinched DC a little.

the upshot from the two incidents involving DC is that the cars are too fragile; the slightest contact and there are bits of carbon fiber scattered on the track. there are ways around this, I'm sure, so perhaps the FIA should look into it.

the WCC race is getting mighty close, with three teams--yes, three teams--in it.

also, Peter Windsor and the Speed TV crew had it incorrect, I believe, seeing that the last Italian entry to win a GP, other than Ferrari, was Benetton in 97, and not Maserati in 57.

[Cenotaph]

Benetton is based on the UK, like Renault is now, so it doesnt count as italian, i believe.

[Wouter]

To be fair, Benetton was an Italian team in name only - their base is in England (and was called Toleman). Torro Rosso's factory and racing team are genuinely Italian, at least, allthough the design is from Red Bull technology in England. The engine is Italian, too.

[andy walker]

Lewis cooked his tyres.

Which he seems to have a habit of doing....

[siggers]

Wonderful race, very, very impressive win. Team and driver did not put a foot wrong. First wins are always special - all the hope, no agro built up yet ... I really hope Vettel can keep his performance level, he clearly has something special! And it is great for STR - many have mentioned Minardi, but I also want to remember Stoddard for keeping the team going (and what an incredible effort it was to get the cars even to the track in 2001) and Gerhard Berger, that old fox, joining Jackie Stewart as a racewinner, both as a driver and team-owner. I would not have believed it possible anymore for such a 'minor' team (even if they got an obviously more than decent car from RBR) to find something for several races in the development battle and to hang on to it in such an overwhelming way for the whole weekend.

After all, perhaps rumors of F1s death were a bit exaggerated. Cannot remember when I enjoyed a race so much and was so gripped by willing somebody to win. I've said it for years: more racing, less bullshit ...

[Red Rocket]

I am over the moon with Vettel's and Toro Rosso's fairy tale victory ...Well deserved

to bad for Bourdais, I think he would have had a good result.

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by Arn


It was much 'greater' than Panis's win, Vettel beat everyone fair and square.

As did Panis.

[primer]

Originally posted by NinjaMouse


Errr....

I started the Race thread...today, just before the race...in fact, if you bothered to read the first post..you will see that I mention that the race was to start under the safety car....how would I have known that during quali?

DOH!.....lol.....

You don't get it, so I will put it in simpler terms.

By all means be the first to start a post race thread as soon as the first car crosses the finishing line. Before that, use the LIVE forum. Unlike some other communities, this forum has traditionally had a distinct thread to discuss post practice, post qualifying and post race thoughts.

LIVE action is discussed elsewhere. So you do not have to "start" anything if you want to post thoughts during race. Or Qualifying. Or practice. Use this link and communicate your profound insights with other intelligent members in real time!

I rather like this format that splits live and post session commentary, and if you think about it you'll see the benefit as well.

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by Arn



Give me a break?
It was wet, and how many cars DNFed in front of Panis?

The fact that you do not know about F1 racing does now seem to stop you from posting, shame as both Panis and Vettel drove spectaculary well, and not understanding that is a shame. You will lose a lot of enjoyment of what racing and F1 is all about if you do not understand how spectacular Panis winning at Monaco was.

[primer]

Originally posted by molive


Ok Piquet had a bad quali (but many top drivers also did), but remember he was the last one to make a pitstop, he had what 40 laps worth of fuel. I dont see how this could have worked in his favour, obviously you need a lighter car to pass at Monza.

Yes that's a fair comment. He was so heavy with fuel, Renault apparently hoping for long and multiple safety car sessions? But overall I have given up on Nelson, Bruno Senna might be the real deal.

[prxty]

Originally posted by Coral
Lewis - great! Fantastic "ballsy" drive,;) with some great overtaking manoeuvres. Is he a racer or is he what?! We need more of this in F1. I think we definitely saw who deserves to be WDC today, and it isn't...

Exactly. He deserves to be WDC because with the best car he got a seventh place. Sorry, it was a mediocre weekend for Lewis. If Heikki does this people speak about firing him and you want "today" a WDC for the choker?
Weird.

[f1rules]

Originally posted by andy walker
Lewis cooked his tyres.

Which he seems to have a habit of doing....

well i prefer that over a boring race with no risk taken, like kimi, but yes im sure kimi preserved his tires well, and good for him im sure the bridgestone people are delighted

[primer]

Originally posted by Mila
HK was rather po-faced on the podium and during the PC. something is brewing at McLaren, I dare say.

More than anything he seems unhappy with his own performance . Unlike what some people say here, I am sure Heikki didn't sign the contract as a "No. 2" driver. He fully expected himself to get confortable with the car and challenge Lewis.

Things are not working out for him. Either he resigns himself to a DC like existence, or a team change is in order if he can't match Lewis in 2009.

[K-One]

Originally posted by f1rules


well i prefer that over a boring race with no risk taken, like kimi, but yes im sure kimi preserved his tires well, and good for him im sure the bridgestone people are delighted

What that has to do with Kimi?

[andy walker]

Originally posted by f1rules


well i prefer that over a boring race with no risk taken, like kimi, but yes im sure kimi preserved his tires well, and good for him im sure the bridgestone people are delighted

Kimis tyres make better coffee tables.

[Icicle]

Very sweet!!! Seb Vettal dominated the race in front of McLaren and BMW. In 2009, I hope Newey produce a sleek machine for him. Congratulation to Hekki too, he managed to finish race in the position he started in.

[fnz]

For those who want it, here you have all laptimes from the race

[bankoq]

Originally posted by primer
All these guys are now afraid of Lewis (if they weren't already). I do not think anyone has the courage to fight him toe-to-toe on track.

It's exactly the opposite. They know how rude he's on the track so one day someone will not lift and Lewis will be out.

[GiancarloF1]

Actually, Heikki performs in Fisichella 2005 fashion this year. 3 podiums in 14 races, frankly all 3 undeserved (at least Fisi had a legit win and 3rd in 2005 + some deserved podiums lost). This race for Kovalainen was pretty much like 2005 Japan was Fisichella. At least the italian had a lot better periods in his carreer, I can't picture a better Kovalainen than this one in the future.

[fnz]

what was undeserved by Kova's podium today?

[Wouter]

Originally posted by GiancarloF1
Actually, Heikki performs in Fisichella 2005 fashion this year. 3 podiums in 14 races, frankly all 3 undeserved (at least Fisi had a legit win and 3rd in 2005 + some deserved podiums lost). This race for Kovalainen was pretty much like 2005 Japan was Fisichella. At least the italian had a lot better periods in his carreer, I can't picture a better Kovalainen than this one in the future.

And Kovalainen didn't have some deserved podiums lost this year, through safety cars? Was his podium (not win) at Hungary undeserved? In Malaysia?

[Insane111]

Originally posted by prxty

Exactly. He deserves to be WDC because with the best car he got a seventh place. Sorry, it was a mediocre weekend for Lewis. If Heikki does this people speak about firing him and you want "today" a WDC for the choker?
Weird.

Dude, did you actually watch the race, or just wake up late and check the result?

Some people, like Alonso, got lucky with the timing of their pitstop and track conditions, Hamilton didn't. Fantastic drive from him.

[Cenotaph]

Originally posted by fnz
For those who want it, here you have all laptimes from the race

thx

this is what i was talking about, before the first pitstop Massa was really faster than Hamilton, even after Hamilton got a clear road ahead around lap 18/19. Hamilton eventually did 1:34 two times in the first stint, Massa did it 6 times.. I think Massa was more than just okay, his strategy just didnt help him.

[kodandaram]

Yeah Kovalainen had a mediocre race given Hamilton showed the McLaren to be much quicker. If you exchange the positions of Kova and Hamilton, you would have expected Lewis to win it easy. But thats the difference between the drivers and dare I say it, thats the reason McLaren have signed Kova for another year. I think they reckon it will help them build the dream team they had in the 90's of Hak-DC without too much internal trouble and expect Kova to raise his game sufficiently next year to help them win the WCC also. No brainer. Kova is a good no.2 .

[GiancarloF1]

Originally posted by fnz
what was undeserved by Kova's podium today?

Since all the competition started far behind him, and he didn't manage to gain advantage and win the race. That's all. OK, in Hungary he deserved a 3rd, and in Melbourne he should have been 2nd. But that's all really.

[fnz]

Originally posted by Insane111


Dude, did you actually watch the race, or just wake up late and check the result?

Some people, like Alonso, got lucky with the timing of their pitstop and track conditions, Hamilton didn't. Fantastic drive from him.

Lap FA LH
37 1:34.829 1:58.834 Lewis outlap
38 1:36.021 1:32.869*
39 1:34.979 1:33.232*
40 1:34.581 1:33.405*
41 1:34.644 1:34.095*
42 1:34.497 1:34.073*
43 1:33.990* 1:34.007
44 1:33.753* 1:34.108
45 1:33.304* 1:33.549
46 1:32.913* 1:33.363
47 1:32.330* 1:33.347
48 1:31.855* 1:33.216
49 1:30.820* 1:31.871
50 1:30.587* 1:31.092
51 1:29.961* 1:30.370
52 1:30.820 1:29.721*
53 1:30.995 1:29.846*

*= faster

Yes clearly FA was very very lucky , depsite being on the inters for 7 more laps he still had more pace than Hamilton for the biggest part of the last stint. Oh yea, plz don't tell me Hamilton got held up by Massa... he had to let him (NH, FA) go... he even had to defend (push of track in some way) againt Webber who was closing in fastly.

[peroa]

Originally posted by kodandaram
Yeah Kovalainen had a mediocre race given Hamilton showed the McLaren to be much quicker. If you exchange the positions of Kova and Hamilton, you would have expected Lewis to win it easy. But thats the difference between the drivers and dare I say it, thats the reason McLaren have signed Kova for another year. I think they reckon it will help them build the dream team they had in the 90's of Hak-DC without too much internal trouble and expect Kova to raise his game sufficiently next year to help them win the WCC also. No brainer. Kova is a good no.2 .

Yeah, but he HAS to step up his game.

[fnz]

Originally posted by GiancarloF1


Since all the competition started far behind him, and he didn't manage to gain advantage and win the race. That's all. OK, in Hungary he deserved a 3rd, and in Melbourne he should have been 2nd. But that's all really.

Yes 100% his fault that Hamilton, Massa and Iceman screwed their qualification if forgot

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


The fact that you do not know about F1 racing does now seem to stop you from posting, shame as both Panis and Vettel drove spectaculary well, and not understanding that is a shame. You will lose a lot of enjoyment of what racing and F1 is all about if you do not understand how spectacular Panis winning at Monaco was.

It was good and spectacular - but Panis did have quite a lot of luck
http://forix.autospo...&r=19960006&c=7

[Insane111]

Originally posted by fnz



Lap FA LH
37 1:34.829 1:58.834 Lewis outlap
38 1:36.021 1:32.869*
39 1:34.979 1:33.232*
40 1:34.581 1:33.405*
41 1:34.644 1:34.095*
42 1:34.497 1:34.073*
43 1:33.990* 1:34.007
44 1:33.753* 1:34.108
45 1:33.304* 1:33.549
46 1:32.913* 1:33.363
47 1:32.330* 1:33.347
48 1:31.855* 1:33.216
49 1:30.820* 1:31.871
50 1:30.587* 1:31.092
51 1:29.961* 1:30.370
52 1:30.820 1:29.721*
53 1:30.995 1:29.846*

*= faster

Yes clearly FA was very very lucky , depsite being on the inters for 7 more laps he still had more pace than Hamilton for the biggest part of the last stint. Oh yea, plz don't tell me Hamilton got held up by Massa... he had to let him (NH, FA) go... he even had to defend (push of track in some way) againt Webber who was closing in fastly.

Mate, I wasn't digging Alonso, he was an example. His pit window came at a time when the change to inters could be made without being too risky, and therefore didn't have to make an extra pit stop. Same as Kubica.

[inca_roads]

Originally posted by fnz



Lap FA LH
37 1:34.829 1:58.834 Lewis outlap
38 1:36.021 1:32.869*
39 1:34.979 1:33.232*
40 1:34.581 1:33.405*
41 1:34.644 1:34.095*
42 1:34.497 1:34.073*
43 1:33.990* 1:34.007
44 1:33.753* 1:34.108
45 1:33.304* 1:33.549
46 1:32.913* 1:33.363
47 1:32.330* 1:33.347
48 1:31.855* 1:33.216
49 1:30.820* 1:31.871
50 1:30.587* 1:31.092
51 1:29.961* 1:30.370
52 1:30.820 1:29.721*
53 1:30.995 1:29.846*

*= faster

Yes clearly FA was very very lucky , depsite being on the inters for 7 more laps he still had more pace than Hamilton for the biggest part of the last stint. Oh yea, plz don't tell me Hamilton got held up by Massa... he had to let him (NH, FA) go... he even had to defend (push of track in some way) againt Webber who was closing in fastly.

And the whole race is judged on 1 stint? Care to compare their pace at other times then?

[Tenmantaylor]

Originally posted by primer


There are Minardi crews in that team but resource and car wise they are very different now. While taking nothing away from Vettel you have to accept that the car STR have been gifted is better than anything Minardi made for themselves.

My thoughts also. As much of a fairy tale it is, Minardi never had a Ferrari powered, Adrian Newey designed, british built car.

[le chat noir]

Originally posted by peroa



Yeah, but he HAS to step up his game.

really? he's 6 points behind the wdc. and mclaren are 5 behind ferrari. they'd be leading if not for their special treatment.

unless you're talking about 09 and imagining alonso alongside kubica in a good beemer, i don't think he does. wish he would tho!

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Originally posted by Tenmantaylor


My thoughts also. As much of a fairy tale it is, Minardi never had a Ferrari powered, Adrian Newey designed, british built car.

Minardi did have Ferrari engines at some point.
Also, as I said before, 90% of the personnel are Minardi people, and companies are made of people, not just intangible brand names.