192 replies to this topic

[Quixotic]

Do any Aussies remember any of the following Race Drivers from the Early 70s These are the guys that I first started to follow when I was about 7 or 8 years old.

Henk Woelders - Formula 2. I think that he raced a Elfin Mono or an Elfin 600,

Phil Webber - Elfin Formula Ford?

Lionel Ayers - Sports Cars,

John McDonald - Formula 2, and

Ron McCormack - F5000,

These are just names that I remember from my youth. Henk Woelders in particular. These guys are why I ultimately took up racing, not the big names.

Does anyone know what happened to them?

Regards,

John Swensen

[Ray Bell]

There was an American Ron McCormack involved in F5000... but I don't think he was a driver...

You are probably thinking of John McCormack, who won the Gold Star in F5000 and today lives back in his native Tasmania. Henk Woelders is a Queenslander who did well in an Elfin and also in a Birrana from memory. The F2 John McDonald was a visitor from SE Asia, we earlier had another well-known John McDonald who drove the old Tornado and later raced under Bill Patterson's colours.

Lionel Ayers can come from any era... he started in TCs in the very early fifties and still plays around today with his Mildren Waggott... the famous 'Yellow Submarine'. I saw him last week at Speed on Tweed.

[giffo]

Oh goodie! One I at least know a bit about.....

Henk won the 1972 Australian F2 championship (I think is the correct year)
Anyhow he lives near Albany in West' Aust' & is having two of his cars restored in the east.
The championship winning Elfin 600 & Biranna in think he said.
During the Albany Round the Houses earlier this year I was fortunate to spend a good deal of time speaking with him. While not directly involved in M/S any more he still has more than a keen interest. It was the highlight of my w/e down there & the one thing that I found special & Henk was suprised by, was that my car was on the grid along side he & his Brabham that he drove back when he was starting out on the 60's.
His stories were captivating & the several hours we spent talking were far to short, but there's something to look forward to next year. To me at least there was a bit of history. especially relating to my car. As with most race w/e's I never took a picture tho.

[Quixotic]

Thanks Mate,

since you are in form...... How about these guys?

Kan Goodwin.......I vaguely remember him in a Rennmax,

Jack Bono....an Elfin I think,

CLive Mills.... I cannot remember what he drove, and,

Mike Stack....I think he drove a Cheetah.

Regards,

John Swensen

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Quixotic
Thanks Mate,

since you are in form...... How about these guys?

Kan Goodwin.......I vaguely remember him in a Rennmax

Ken Goodwin really made the early Rennmax Vee look first class... faultless preparation, and a winner as well. He later drove the Niel Allen McLaren M4a, and I have a notion I remember a yellow Rennmax F2 car in there somewhere.

Jack Bono....an Elfin I think

Jack was mentioned here recently because he'd died. A great guy, FVee exponent with Elfin after years of playing with VWs in a variety of sporting events, then he went into an Elfin 600, Collier's Tools sponsorship. There's a photo I posted of him in the Aussie pics thread IIRC, driving this car with its wide nose through Homestead Corner at the Farm.

Clive Mills.... I cannot remember what he drove

Clive Millis was, unlike the others, a Victorian. He came to note, at least as I recall, in an Elfin Mono 1.5-litre car, stayed in small-bore openwheelers for many years.

Mike Stack....I think he drove a Cheetah

Not a very notable driver because of his spasmodic appearances, he had two Cheetahs IIRC. Ford engine in one, Renault in the other, at least temporarily. He had other cars but was never very successful.

[Leo D]

Can I throw a little somthing into the mix?...

Were there 2 Goodwins?.... Ken & Len?.....
Were ther 2 Stacks?..... Mike & Bernie?

Henk Woelders ran his son in Formula Ford a few years ago if my memory serves me correctly?.... I remember Henks drives in the Bill Patterson Elfin 600..... I'm sure it made an appearance at Sandown with a high wing configuration before they were banned.... I think the struts were varnished timber.... but I could be wrong on that?

Clive Millis was also an Elfin 600 pilot as well..... I'm pretty sure that was his last car. He still lives in Melbourne.

[Gordon Graham]

In regard to Ron/John McCormack, there was a Ron McCormack entered to drive the Corvette Maybach in the 1962 AGP. He didn't start, and I don't know if the car even made it across the Nullabor - probably not

[2Bob]

A result sheet with Werner Bekker, Mallala March 1970:



[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/img150/mallalamarch19702vo5.jpg/1/][IMG]

Got a couple more if you are interested. pm me and I will email them to you. (I happen to be in car 110 in the touring car race, which is why I still have the results!)


(Edit) Doh - another senior moment - you were talking about Henk Woelders (and others) and I included stuff about Werner Bekker! Still to anglo persons similar european names maybe? (That's my excuse)

[cavvy]

Originally posted by Gordon Graham
In regard to Ron/John McCormack, there was a Ron McCormack entered to drive the Corvette Maybach in the 1962 AGP. He didn't start, and I don't know if the car even made it across the Nullabor - probably not

Ron McCormick (I think thats the spelling): I met him in the early 80s in Brisbane - a real character, certainly claimed to have started the 62 AGP at Caversham - will chase a photo !

[Bondy]

Mike Stack was also the man behind Dinkum Classics, makers of Australian 1:43 and 1:24 scale models..... Had Werner Becker come into the shop about 3-4 years ago buying models...

Clive Millis was still racing into the mid 80's think he ran 2nd in a heat at Sandown in a AF2 round iirc.... in a Hardman? I think he also had a run in a Ralt RT4....

[Lee Nicolle]

Bernie Stack has been running a Porsche in classic events and racing.
That Mallala program is interesting because I remember most of the names.Even 2bob is there.
And the ex Beechey Mustang with Kym Aunger.
I saw Norm Beechey today at Birdwood.

[Gordon Graham]

Originally posted by cavvy


Ron McCormick (I think thats the spelling): I met him in the early 80s in Brisbane - a real character, certainly claimed to have started the 62 AGP at Caversham - will chase a photo !

He certainly didn't start

[silicanza]

There's Tom Hawkes who raced a Gemini Mk2 FJ for the Chequered Flag in Europe including Monaco, and went onto build the TomaHawk FJ in the UK.
Then there the Australian with the unlikely name and tittle; Count Steve Ouvaroff who drove a Cooper T51 again in the UK.

Following is a very good list of drivers though it did not have Tom Hawkes on it.

http://www.driverdb....untry/12/alpha/

Amazing what you can find on the net now days

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Leo D
Can I throw a little something into the mix?...

Were there 2 Goodwins?.... Ken & Len?.....
Were there 2 Stacks?..... Mike & Bernie?

Henk Woelders ran his son in Formula Ford a few years ago if my memory serves me correctly?.... I remember Henks drives in the Bill Patterson Elfin 600..... I'm sure it made an appearance at Sandown with a high wing configuration before they were banned.... I think the struts were varnished timber.... but I could be wrong on that?

Clive Millis was also an Elfin 600 pilot as well..... I'm pretty sure that was his last car. He still lives in Melbourne.

I was sure that Clive Millis raced later, Bondy has confirmed that. He was a true stalwart of the smallbore openwheeler ranks.

And yes, Henk did run a high wing at Sandown. As for the Goodwins... I've gone and confused myself with them! Ken had the (later to be Bernie Haehnle) FVee and later a Rennmax F2, Len started out with a little Brabham IIRC and was then to drive the M4a under the Pat Burke banner as Warwick was still learning the way in his Brabham.

I'm certain that reference to a 'McCormack' in the original post must have been John McCormack... the Ron McCormack (or McCormick?) who had the Tornado briefly was a complete unknown in the seventies.

The two Stacks were unrelated, Mike was from Sydney and Bernie from Adelaide.

[Leo D]

Can I throw another into the mix?

Maurie Quincey (Elfin 600)...... I remember him ending upside down on the run into Dandenong Rd corner at Sandown once.... I think there is a pic of it somewhere.....

He certainly belongs in the grouping with Clive Millis and Henk Woelders as one regular runners of the period.

[ellrosso]

If you're interested we have a few pics of Len Goodwin on the oldracephotos.com website (type his name into the Advanced Search on the Home page). He won the F2 category at the Symmons Plains Gold Star round in 1970 driving Pat Burke's ex N Allen McLaren M4A. There is also a shot of his Birranna 273 at Calder in 1974.
Few shots of Clive Millis there also (ref Advanced Search again) in Elfin 600, Elfin 620 and Elfin 700 (or 720?) Formula Pacific at the Baskerville Gold Star round in 1981. I sold a couple of prints to his son a few years back actually. He was quite a stalwart of F2 actually,especially at Calder in the late 60's in his Elfin 600 where he was very competitive.
Couple of shots of Woelders at Symmons in 1969 also and heaps of McCormack shots there as well. John is currently restoring one of his F5000's apparently - he lives in St Helens on the NE Coast of Tassy these days.

Regards, Lindsay Ross

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


I was sure that Clive Millis raced later, Bondy has confirmed that. He was a true stalwart of the smallbore openwheeler ranks.

Ray, my memories of him driving the Elfin Mono, particularly at Calder, and the Elfin 600 are quite vivid.... I must admit though, that the cars after that didn't register in my memory bank at all...

[jcurran]

Originally posted by giffo
Oh goodie! One I at least know a bit about.....

Henk won the 1972 Australian F2 championship (I think is the correct year)
Anyhow he lives near Albany in West' Aust' & is having two of his cars restored in the east.
The championship winning Elfin 600 & Biranna in think he said.
During the Albany Round the Houses earlier this year I was fortunate to spend a good deal of time speaking with him. While not directly involved in M/S any more he still has more than a keen interest. It was the highlight of my w/e down there & the one thing that I found special & Henk was suprised by, was that my car was on the grid along side he & his Brabham that he drove back when he was starting out on the 60's.
His stories were captivating & the several hours we spent talking were far to short, but there's something to look forward to next year. To me at least there was a bit of history. especially relating to my car. As with most race w/e's I never took a picture tho.

G'day Gents,

A couple of short notes:-

- Henk has the ex Bruce Allison Biranna 274.
- Clive Millis raced a Elfin 600 (7019), then moved to an Elfin 630 (746301), then a Hardman. After that I don't know.

JC

[jcurran]

What ever happened to Ian Cook? He raced an Elfin 623 at one stage.

JC

[Leo D]

Ian Cook, to the best of my knowledge was killed in an accident at the end of the main straight at Sandow. Driving a Brabham.....I'm pretty sure the accident occured during practice.

[ellrosso]

Yes, Leo D that is correct re Ian Cook. Very tragic as he was quite a rising talent - drove for Bob Jane on a number of occasions.

[jcurran]

Originally posted by ellrosso
Yes, Leo D that is correct re Ian Cook. Very tragic as he was quite a rising talent - drove for Bob Jane on a number of occasions.

G'day Gents,

Was there two Ian Cooks? I think Ian Cook was killed in around 1973, yet there was another one racing Elfins in 74 and 75.

JC

[Ray Bell]

That's right...

Ian Cook from Melbourne raced Elfin Monos and was driving a Brabham when he lost it on a cold and wet practice day at Sandown c1973 and hit one of the Shell sign posts. He drove the Elfin 400 and the Brabham 2.5 for Bob Jane during 1968 in the wake of John Harvey's crash.

For some time Ian worked for Chrysler or a business associated with Chrysler Australia and was on the verge of pulling off some kind of a deal to race their cars with good funding when he died.

Ian Cook in Sydney, meanwhile, was racing a Nota F3 car with, IIRC, a Gordini 1100 in it. Later he teamed up with Tony Maw and raced an Elfin F3 with sponsorship from Helena Rubinstein, while he also built John Horswell's Puma Clubman during that period. These days he lives up north, either Cairns or somewhere similar. Right out of racing, a complete contrast to the times he was the President of the Racing Car Association in NSW and was Chairman of the NSW CAMS Racing Panel.

[Leo D]

Interesting to hear that there were 2 Ian Cooks.... I never knew that..... I wonder how many other drivers have been "confused" (if that is the right term), with other drivers of the same name?

Ken Hastings (of which there were 2) is a name that comes to mind, and at one stage, they ran against each other in Under 2ltr Sports Sedans.

[Team Result]

Well, I knew of the two Ian Cooks, but not two Ken Hastings, please elaborate!

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Team Result
Well, I knew of the two Ian Cooks, but not two Ken Hastings, please elaborate!

A Father and Son combination......

Ken Hastings Snr ran a Cosworth powered Toyota MR2, Ken Hastings Jnr ran a Cosworth powered Escort in under 2ltr Sports Sedans.

Ken Snr ran in many classes.... sports cars....Open Wheelers .....Touring Cars.... Sports Sedans.....

[Ray Bell]

So what about my old mate Peter Scott?

He ran Vees in SA and then graduated to an Elfin F2 car before going to America to seek his fame and fortune. I actually found him a few years ago, he'd been on the crew that prepared the Krosnoff car, but I lost touch again.

[Derek Pitt]

It seems to me that, as time goes by, the efforts of some of Australia's racing drivers from the 50's and 60's have been largely forgotten and/or swamped by our latter-day heroes from the 70's and beyond.

I refer to those who raced at the top level in racing cars and sports cars, but who today, dont even manage a mention in the various ratings exercises carried out recently in magazines by motor journalists and "experts".

Possibly these judges have forgotten the well-known "lesser" drivers of the past or just don't know of their existence and/or their competiton histories. Perhaps more sinisterly, they are required to play the tune of their advertisers and refer only to the current crop of "racing drivers" which currently grace Australian motor racing.

So, in the hope of giving some overdue kudos to these "forgotten" drivers, I have listed my nominations below. The list shows the drivers and relates their best efforts to particular cars.

I hope others have some drivers who they think qualify for the list.

John Youl - T55 Cooper climax
Austin Miller- T51 Cooper Climax
Bill Pitt - D Type Jaguar and Mk1 Jaguar
Ron Phillips - Cooper Jaguar
Ted Gray - Tornado
Derek Jolly - Lotus XV 2.0
David McKay - Brabham Climax 2.7 and Tasman
Greg Cusack- Brabham Repco 2.5
John Martin - Lotus XV 2.5

There are probably more drivers from the late 60's which could be included but which are outside my area of knowledge.

Derek

[Giacomo Agostini]

Don't forget Spencer Martin but why go back that far? How about another ex Gold Star champion Rohan Onslow or the most under-rated driver in recent memory David Brabham? If anyone could he could.

[Michael Clark]

Would Doug Whitehead qualify as forgotten?

[Derek Pitt]

Michael,

I think you mean Doug Whiteford.

I would argue that Whiteford was given a great deal of deserved acknowledgement both at the time and still enjoys a highly regarded reputation to this day. Why, I think even the expert magaine raters had him down as number 38 or something - nearly up with some of the current also-ran V8 supercar drivers!!!!

Derek

[Ray Bell]

We assume, then, that if they're not on the list and they were top drivers they're not forgotten?

I wouldn't have thought Doug Whiteford was forgotten, for instance, and you didn't mention Stan Jones, Len Lukey, Bib Stillwell, Lex Davison or Bill Patterson, so they've likewise not been forgotten. And Spencer would be among them too, along with Matich, the Geoghegans and so on?

John Youl is a good choice, IMO. Very understated in his day, forgotten from the moment he retired. Ted Parsons sang Ted Gray's praises high enough and long enough for me to accept he was a true great. Johnny Martin I saw and have to agree, Greg Cusack on his day too.

[thunder427]

Have we forgotten, Luchio Cesario...drove for 'Lancia' at Le Mans 1985 ( If my memory serves me well !!)
came 5th,Lancia factory pulled out of the Le mans program the following year,Luchio came home to asist with the family bussiness while still under contract to the 'factory' team,had the 'Dubious' honour of having an 'Off' at Bathurst,which bought out the "FIRST' ever 'Safetycar' ,this did little for his reputation,but he was 'Fast' with good car control,some say 'Brave', I would subjest "Talented"....today 'selling' motor Scooters from his bussines in Melbourne.

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by Michael Clark
Would Doug Whitehead qualify as forgotten?

one of Australia's all time greats,long forgotten by many,remembered and admired by some.

[Derek Pitt]

Yes Ray,

That was my point ....the people I didn't mention are those still well known and remembered to this day....Jones, Davison, Matich etc etc..the people I am trying to acknowledge are those that don't get any recognition today and are all but forgotten, despite having performed at or near he top.

I am sure there are more.........

Derek

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by thunder427
Have we forgotten, Luchio Cesario...drove for 'Lancia' at Le Mans 1985 ( If my memory serves me well !!)
came 5th,Lancia factory pulled out of the Le mans program the following year,Luchio came home to asist with the family business while still under contract to the 'factory' team,had the 'Dubious' honour of having an 'Off' at Bathurst,which bought out the "FIRST' ever 'Safetycar' ,this did little for his reputation,but he was 'Fast' with good car control,some say 'Brave', I would subjest "Talented"....today 'selling' motor Scooters from his bussines in Melbourne.

Apart from the fact that Lucio didn't impress everyone to that extent, he's more recent than the scope of this thread... "'70s and beyond" would clip him out of it.

There's another side to this, it's a matter of unacknowledged talent, in many cases. Like Peter Hopwood, another from the '70s and beyond. Throw in a Barry Seton, however, and you're on the trail.

[Derek Pitt]

Ted Gray........

I would suggest - is now virtually totally forgotten - except by a very few.

A few years ago while at an Historic Sandown, I had a good look at the Tornado and took in its agricultural truck-like construction suspension diff etc- clearly a very primitive blunt axe.

Gray raced this car with enormous gusto and success at Longford, Bathurst and Albert Park (all highly dangerous circuits) and was very competitive with Jones' 250F and Davison's Ferrari.

I was forced to conclude that Ted Gray was not only a very skilled driver, but an extremely brave one as well!

He never received any publicity of note before, during or after his racing career and i wonder therefore if any TNFer has anything at all on him - the racing driver and/or the man?

He deserves better.

Derek

[Ray Bell]

Certainly John Medley has given him full credit when he's written about his deeds...

In both the Bathurst and the AGP books, John has shown that Ted was the moral victor at Bathurst in 1958. But the sad part is that Ted himself shrunk away from racing in his declining years, not wanting to have anything to do with his past in the sport.

I think it's been suggested that this reflected the personal damage that was done in that disastrous crash he had in the Alta-based early version of the Tornado, or the forerunner to the Tornado, on Conrod Straight.

You can be sure that Lou Abrahams held him in very high esteem, by the way, and he had good reason to know his capabilities.

[Derek Pitt]

Interersting post Ray....I have been trying to read between the lines...hmmmmm

It would seem that his big Bathurst shunt in the original Tornado didn't in any way slow Ted Gray down because his best efforts came in 1957/58 after the crash and in that corvette-engined beast. That car scared me just standing next to it in the pits!

You indicate he may have received long-term injuries from the crash though - can you elaborate Ray?

The thing is, I know nothing about Ted Gray - where he came from before the Tornado and where he went in retirement - I assume he is no longer with us.

I have alway thought of him as a typical Australian motor trade male type of the 1950's. I bet he smoked, probably drove a Ford Customline and hated Elvis !

I would love to know more ...

Derek

[Ray Bell]

I know very little myself...

From memory, he was there racing at the Olympia Speedway in 1939, had a bit of a following and earned the respect of all his fellow drivers very quickly.

He also set the Wangaratta (his home town) to Melbourne lap record in the Alfa V8 (pretty sure it had a V8 in it), so he was a bit of a boy on the road. Presumably he was there racing at the Wangaratta airstrip circuit in the mid-fifties, possibly also at Tarrawingee.

You need to talk to people older than me to find out these things. I know not about long-term injuries, but it's quite likely there were some... and your surmise about Customlines, motor trade and so on are quite possibly right. Unfortunately I don't know, but he was right in the thick of things in Wang with Ted Sr and Jr and thier partners in the Ford Dealership, Jack and Ron Phillips. Actually, I don't think Ron wanted any part of that, but they were all close.

[Quixotic]

What about Henk Woelders F2 Driver, late 60s early 70s

John

[Ray Bell]

He got his name in the book in '72, didn't he?

Bill Evans, who was a hero of Peter Brock's. Peter Larner.

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
He got his name in the book in '72, didn't he?

Bill Evans, who was a hero of Peter Brock's. Peter Larner.

Met wild Bill a few times,nice man great stories.
What about John Walker,Alfie,Alan Hamilton,Warwick Brown.and Alex Mildren.
Gee when you think about it so many wonderful drivers from here and NZ.

[Ellis French]

John Youl is still about and still in Tas.
He competed in 2 or 3 Targa Tasmania's about 1996-8 and still had good speed and was very competitive.
Geoff Smedley related to an aquaintance that he returned to the old race workshop on the property and it is virtually unchanged from the racing days with some of the old posters still on the wall .

Ellis French

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by Ellis French
John Youl is still about and still in Tas.
He competed in 2 or 3 Targa Tasmania's about 1996-8 and still had good speed and was very competitive.
Geoff Smedley related to an aquaintance that he returned to the old race workshop on the property and it is virtually unchanged from the racing days with some of the old posters still on the wall .

Ellis French

nice touch.

[Derek Pitt]

Yes Ellis,

I put John Youl at the top of my list because I think he is probably the most pointed example of a driver who deserves more recogniton for his past deeds.

Youl's performances in the international series were outstanding... (I won't say Tasman because I know that would be immediately corrected *smiles).....I think it was 1963 when he lead Clark and all the internationals at Lakeside in his beautiful, but outdated, T55 pencil-line Cooper. Likewise, his performances in the Gold Star races were always very good, being highly competitive with Stillwell and Davison's similar cars.

As Ray has pointed out, John Youl. after his retirement, was almost immediately forgotten, to the point where I would be amazed if any of the "experts" who compile the "Australia's Top 100 Racing Drivers" magazine articles have even heard of him.

Lets hope us TNFers can acknowledge him - at the very least

Derek

[Ray Bell]

Lakeside in '63?

Clark was still two years away from the place. Graham Hill was there in the Ferguson, which should have been good in the wet there, one would think. Jack, Bruce, FJ and Tony Maggs were there, I'd imagine.

[David McKinney]

I think it was the 1964 Tasman (!) round
I don't think Youl ever raced against Clark
But that doesn't detract from his Lakeside performance - or others

[Ray Bell]

Definitely the race the Ferguson was in, David...

1964 was a dry race, Matich led for seven or eight laps, then Mayer took over for another seven or eight, both of these cars parked near the Karrussell with blown engines. Brabham won, McLaren went like a slug for some reason.

Timmy Mayer's last race. I remember it well... I was there.

On the subject of Youl never racing against Clark, you might be right... but what about during the International races of 1961?

[Vicuna]

Bobby Muir

Ray Winter